Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dogme language teaching

Dogme language teaching

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I see no evidence that this particular method is notable, and so he article is best seen as promotional for the method and the associates material. . Essentially all the references come from the two originators.

There's a related AfD , Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scott Thornbury -- where I give the opinion that Thornbury , the co-inventor of this methodology, himself is notable. Ironically, he's notable in large part for his textbooks for elementary learners, and such textbooks are what his methodology described here strongly deprecates. . Possibly some of this is mergeable into the article on the author, if kept. DGG ( talk ) 17:24, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Thornbury may be notable, but this method is not. We are under no obligation to advertise his products. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - There is so much confusion and contradiction about what dogme is, it's hard to take it seriously as a teaching method of note. — Spacedwarf (talk • contribs) 09:11, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This deletion seems strange to me (but I'm not a Wikipedia expert, just a language teacher). There're quite a few people involved in the movement, including some prominent bloggers. IH Online Teacher Training Institute (OTTI) is going to run a five-week workshop on Dogme. If you think that this should be deleted, then delete things like Task-based language learning. And anyway, it's a movement rather than simply a "product". Michael Grinberg (talk) 22:36, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
response - sounds like you're saying it's an up and coming concept; in other words, not notable yet. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:12, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I had a look at the references, and the article by Simon Gill in IATEFL, Christensen's article in The Language Teacher, and the ELT Journal piece all seem to fulfil the notability criteria. — Mr. Stradivarius (drop me a line) 10:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- There have also been reviews of his book published in various journals. Take a look at them on the book's page at Delta Publishing. — Mr. Stradivarius (drop me a line) 13:50, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Publisher's websites are notoriously not reliable, since they are advertising vehicles, not information sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 18:16, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - I was referring to the individual journals that published the book reviews, not the site itself. It appears that most of those aren't published in reliable sources, though (with the possible exception of the Modern English Teacher piece), so this is could be distracting people from my original point. This point is that if there is just one article mainly about Dogme language teaching published in a respectable source, then it is notable. I have listed three such articles above that were already included in the article's references. This seems an obvious reason to keep the article. — Mr. Stradivarius (drop me a line) 21:46, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I found this comment on the article's talk page. It was left by User:Taiguofeng (talk, Contribs) at 11:02, 9 December 2010:

I believe that It should be kept. Dogme ELT-related works have won some awards for teachers on languages and methodology, including the 2004 Elton Awards Winning Natural Grammar and 2010 Elton Awards Winning Teaching Unplugged. http://www.britishcouncil.org/learning-eltons-2010-winners-4.htm#uk-award-nominees Teaching Unplugged – Book By: Delta Publishing The Product: Teaching Unplugged is the first book to deal comprehensively with the materials-light, conversation-driven approach to English Language Teaching known as Dogme ELT. It challenges not only the way we view teaching, but also the way we view being a teacher. Judge's comments: ‘The approach is practical, simple, easy to understand. Focus on teaching the people, not the subject’ The Team: Scott Thornbury, Luke Meddings, Lindsay Clandfield, Mike Burghall

— Mr. Stradivarius (drop me a line) 06:28, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This book "Teaching Unplugged" is specifically about Dogme language teaching, and it was one of the winners of the 2010 ELTon "UK Award for Innovation". This looks like clear evidence of notability to me. — Mr. Stradivarius (drop me a line) 06:38, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: DOGME is not a product. It's an approach to language teaching, which in my view is as valid as any other approaches that have characterised language teaching in recent years, e.g. communicative language teaching and constructivism. The general philosophy of DOGME is that students should be the basis of materials rather than any third-party source. GroovyGuzi (talk) 10:54, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More evidence on the pros and cons of language teaching using the DOGME approach:

http://www.avatarlanguages.com/blog/dogme-elt-web20-dogme20/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogme/ GroovyGuzi (talk) 12:16, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Although I think the article should be kept, I should point out that the two sources you mentioned are not reliable. Sources must be reliable to prove notability. — Mr. Stradivarius (drop me a line) 14:11, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]