Jump to content

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Usability/Main Page/Draft/Search box poll

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Usability | Main Page | Draft
This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Charm quark (talk | contribs) at 22:00, 20 February 2006 (→Yes). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Proposed new main page · Current main page · Vote and discuss
The final election ran from 1 March 2006, 00:01 (UTC) until 18 March 2006, 23:59 (UTC). Voting is now ended.
The results are 687 (support) /213 (oppose) /43 (neutral)

The main page redesign opening editing session ended on February 18th. The one outstanding issue is whether or not to include the extra search box in the header. This straw poll is to gauge opinion on this from the Wikipedia community and decide which version to put forth to an official final vote.

The design options include:

  1. Second search box (main page only)
  2. No extra search box

This poll ends 4:00, 27 February 2006 (UTC).

Straw poll

Please note that this decision applies strictly to the proposed Main Page. If included, the additional search box would not appear elsewhere on the site.

Include the second search box:

Yes

  1. Absolutely! Searching is the most efficient way to find stuff. Renata 07:08, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  2. Aesthetically, it looks better. Titoxd(?!? - help us) 07:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  3. Keep, friendlier. Reminds me of amazon.com, which is a good thing.--Urthogie 13:03, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  4. Kevin Baastalk 15:59, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  5. Absolutely! It is the single most important thing on the main page. People search and encyclopedia for something, they don't browse it. It should be the focus off attention on the page. --WS 16:04, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  6. Not because it's be particularly useful but it looks much more aesthetically pleasing. --Celestianpower háblame 16:18, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  7. Yes, yes. People I talk with always hate going to the side search bar (oddly enough, sometimes the center of the page loads faster than the side). Also, it look better. BrokenSegue 18:28, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  8. Sure. It's redundent, but it would help newcomers. – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 18:52, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  9. Absolutely. The rest of the redesign is a nice facelift, but really not all that important. A prominent search box is essential. zafiroblue05 | Talk 19:08, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  10. Petros471 19:47, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  11. I must admit, when I first heard of the idea, it sounded like loser talk, but then I saw the second box and it looks great! Veteran wikipedians may be used to the sidebar, but new users to any page can often be disoriented by the other options and miss the most important tool (the bar!). The second bar is visible at first glance; keep it. Rod ESQ 20:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  12. Keep, makes it easier for newcomers to find the search box, even though it is redundant. --CannotResolveSymbol talk 20:49, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  13. Yes. It's prominent, and it also has the total number of articles above it, which I think the front page needs as it makes Wikipedia sound more impressive. The other option only has that information right near the bottom of the page. Also, it's aesthetically pleasing. James Kendall [talk]
  14. Yes, it makes searching more prominent - redundancy shouldn't be such a huge issue as it is the front page only. The inclusion of the search box also allows the no. of articles to be listed - a small feature which it would be a shame to drop (especially since we are now getting into very impressive numbers - I can see the point in dropping it if the number was embarrassing).SFC9394 21:49, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  15. Anything to help newcomers. --AySz88^-^ 23:52, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  16. I know that when I first visited the site I was a little overwhelmed by the front page. It took me a while to realize that the right side bar had basically everything navigation-related. I just think that the addition of the new search bar could only help make the front page more user-friendly and the addition doesn't hurt the appearance at all for me.--CountCrazy007 01:35, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  17. Definitely! People usually don't look at the side of the screen. Usually from top to bottom. Hohohob 01:46, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  18. Yes. It's okay that it's only on the first page: people expect a search box on the home page. Otherwise you'd have to complain about the search box on the multilingual portal. At worst they'd click "back" if they need to find it again. --Geoffrey 03:57, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  19. Yes; I think it looks rather elegant, and balances the page, relative to the other version.--ragesoss 04:08, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  20. Yeah, if you're reading the categories and articles and such, it's nice to have a search box right there and not have to move over to the side, moving to another "box". --The Human Spellchecker 04:26, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
    The above comment seems to imply a belief that the second search box would be present throughout the site. This is not the case; it would appear only on the Main Page (if the design is approved by the community). —David Levy 04:33, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
    If the large up and to the right search box were to be on every page (as it is in the Classic skin) then it could have my vote. To put it on only the Mainpage seems trickery; now you see it and now you don't. "WTF, what happened to the search box place thingy? - Oh now I see, I have to go back to the Mainpage each time @#@*&!* - Oh great" hydnjo talk 04:53, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  21. Totally. Search needs to be emphasized. I thought that this was one of the main reasons for redesigning the main page! --Travis 05:48, 20 February 2006 (UTC) *Yeah so did I. The whole reason I hate the main page is because it doesn't have it. Tobyk777 05:51, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  22. Yes how can you not have it Tobyk777 05:49, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  23. I am slightly concerned with people thinking the search will always be on top, and then not finding it, but at the first visit people will probably want to search, so I have to go this way. - cohesion★talk 08:12, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  24. Yes - It is higly useful for all visitor, can be easily found rather than looking down the side panel, and the number of articles statistic helps to give a scale of the project. --Jorvik 08:49, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  25. Yes. It does not look out of place, it is not confusing, it will not appear on other pages. It helps people find articles. I see no drawbacks. Mikademus 10:51, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  26. Yes, per Cohesion. -- Tvaughn05e (Talk)(Contribs) 10:56, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  27. Yes, we definitely need to meet the needs of new users of Wikipedia, and this is the way to do it. JACooks 16:47, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  28. Yes, looks better without taking up too much spaceJschwa1 17:15, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  29. Nice and eye-catching for first-timers. Biglin 18:11, 20 February 2006 (UTC).
  30. Yes, It well be more immediately noticed by newcomers.Greatigers 20:03, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  31. "Redundancy" will help new users, and it will be easier to find the search box. Dan 20:56, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  32. Yes. It'll be a great help for new users and visitors. -Charm Quark?? 22:00, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

No

  1. It would confuse readers by distracting them from the search box that appears on every page. They would expect to find it at the top, and it would suddenly be gone. David Levy 07:02/07:13, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  2. Utterly redundant. Raul654 07:38, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  3. Honestly, the second box seems frivolous and makes the front page look shoddily designed; like the someone forgot that there was already a search box on the left side. We can't make it look like we're too eager to have users type something into our little boxes. --Columba livia 07:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  4. It's already in the menu, why include it another time? --Missmarple 08:04, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  5. Ghetto-rigging? Get the wiki coders to move the search box to a better location (top right of page) if this is a real problem. --Grocer 08:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC) (Grocer is right, switch over to Classic skin for a moment for an illustration. hydnjo talk 14:21, 19 February 2006 (UTC))
  6. The search bar in left bar is enough. --Jannex 10:33, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  7. No need, just confusing and aestetically not very pleasing. Batmanand 11:07, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  8. Redundant, confusing, muddles layout --Quiddity 11:12, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  9. Completely unecessary - just repeating tool. --Ck lostsword|queta! 11:57, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  10. Search box on the left is already visible enough as far as I'm concerned. Two search boxes might make someone think, "What's so special about the other one?" --Spaceman85 | my talk 11:59, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  11. No, a crutch that disappears with the next click - now that's confusing. hydnjo talk 14:07, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  12. No, we shouldn't have a second search box. It's pointless to have it, and it just clutters up the main page. Dposse 14:46, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  13. No, per Dposse. - Siva1979Talk to me 15:07, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  14. No, unnecessary. The box on the left is fine. Robert 19:20, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  15. Nope. If a first-time searcher looks for something with the extra search box, they're not going to understand where it went when they want to search again from another page. Give focus to the sidebar search, but don't add a new one Jweed 19:43, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  16. No, per Robert. Naconkantari e|t||c|m 19:58, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  17. No. Sidebar search box is consistent across all pages. Murray Langton 20:40, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  18. No. I like the one-box format Staxringold 21:14, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  19. No. I find it inessential and redundant.--SpacemanAfrica 22:06, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  20. No. Redundant and unattractive, and the draft without looks more "balanced" with "Categories · Featured content · A–Z index" on that side. -PoptartKing 23:15, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  21. Neutralitytalk 00:32, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  22. No. Redundant, not needed. Takes more bandwidth. --OrbitOne 00:34, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  23. It just doesn't seem right. schyler 02:33, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  24. No. Users who can't find the search box on the main page would still have to find it on any other page. Shen 09:24, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  25. Nah, looks cleaner without it. — Phil Welch 10:43, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  26. No. Need search box to be in one consistent location, set by skin. Should not be on the page, but should be in the surrounding wikimedia boilerplate, as it is at the moment. Side location is not ideal, but having another, redundant, search box is far worse. Carcharoth 11:18, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  27. No. Redundant, plus that entire top bar looks cleaner with the links on 1 spread-out line instead of 2 squished-together ones. --niteicetalk2me 19:04, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  28. No for reasons of redundancy. However, the left hand search box should be improved to make it more visible. --ChrisG 20:13, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  29. I actually performed a usability test on a person who's never seen Wikipedia before (yes, such people do still exist). One of the first questions—"what is the difference between the search boxes on top and on the left side"? I'd take that as a no.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 20:35, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  30. No. However, it would be jolly nice to have a fairly prominent article count, but not large enough to seem like we're boasting about it. Something along the lines of "The free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, currently working on XXXXXX articles" -- IvanP/(болтай) 20:37, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  31. No, its pointless.
  32. Its better the way it is now, cleaner. Derf noxid 21:07, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Comments


  • I created another draft that is essentially the version with 2nd search box, but with a better focus on it (it probably makes the vote more fair I think as this is much better looking I think, it does not look like the search box has just been pasted in). I think it is a lot better and puts the attention to the most important part of the page: Draft with better focus. --WS 16:18, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
The example page presents the second search box in the only manner that could possibly be compatible with the design elements that already have garnered consensus. Yours defies the clear consensus in favor of listing the portal links in columns within the header box, and it places the second search box even closer to the first search box's location in the classic skin. Also, the text wraps in the 800x600 resolution. —David Levy 16:41, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
This one is closest to the draft with the most votes (6G), which didn't list the portals within the header box. Where can I find the discussion that lead to that consensus? --WS 17:17, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Please read the talk page and the archive. The straw poll was a means of fostering discussion and gathering input, not a contest to determine which single draft was the "winner." Draft G was the only one of its kind, so the supporters of that style all voted for it. Meanwhile, it also generated the most opposition, and other drafts (many of which were very similar or nearly identical to one another) received far more combined support. —David Levy 20:52, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Just reminder to everyone. Think why people come to WP? Not to read our featured articles or to look at featured pics (it's nice if they do). They come here because they are looking for info. So let's help them find it. Do not force them to browse through endless categories, lists, almanacs, compilations, etc etc. Second search box for you might look stupid and redundat because you can navigate WP blindfolded, but newbies can't. Also, there is this KISS principle. And please don't vote because "the box is too high/low." Please vote on the general principle; technicalities will be worked out later. Renata 16:48, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm baffled as to how the confusing presence of a redundant search box that vanishes upon use could possibly be attributed to the KISS principle. —David Levy 16:53, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Search box is not confusing. Portals are. Categories are. Lists are. Browsing in general is confusing ('cause way too often you take a wrong turn). Vanishing box is not a problem for me. If you search for something, you will end up in an article or in the search view. If you end up in article, you don't need the box any longer. If you are in search view, there is a box up there. If you clicked something and ended up in WP namespace, and got lost, click "back". Simple. Renata 17:11, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Are you saying that you've never entered a search term, ended up at an article (perhaps the wrong one), and wanted to immediately search again? Are you arguing that there's no value in encouraging readers to use the search box that appears on every page (instead of leading them to assume that they must return to the main page)? Do you honestly believe that people won't be confused when the search box no longer appears where they've been told to expect its presence? —David Levy 17:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

The portals and categories are there for people who like them better than searching. The search bar on the left has been there for a long time, and people know that it's there. Putting another search box is just unneccasary. Humans are not as stupid as Renata3 makes them out to be. dposse 18:06, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

You obviously haven't worked in customer service :) I worked briefly in IT troubleshooting, and believe me, people are stupid. Renata 20:00, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
No, but i've been on the internet for years. Yeah, people are morons. But i do believe that the majority of them know what a search box looks like since Google is pretty damn popular right now. dposse 20:06, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  • If the box is not included (which it looks like it won't) could we ask the devs to give focus to the search box on the nav bar. I hate having to click over there. I should be able to just start typing. BrokenSegue 18:39, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
BrokenSegue, I agree with you on that and it's one of the reasons that I prefer the Classic skin. And, just to make sure that I understand your vote for a second search box, you do realize that the second search box would be present only on the Mainpage. That being the case it seems unhelpful to provide a search box that disappears as soon as it is used, now that's confusing. hydnjo talk 18:48, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't find it confusing either. In the Main Page, the main focus of the page is navigation of the site, so therefore, the search box should be more prominent; in the next click, the focus of the page shifts to the respective article, so the regular search bar is appropriate. Titoxd(?!? - help us) 21:33, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't find it confusing. eBay does a somthing similar thing (it has 2 ssearch bars on its main page and only one on most other pages). BrokenSegue 20:01, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Excellent idea. I second that suggestion. --Quiddity 21:54, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
It's still on the page (in the "Wikipedia languages" section, where it's contextually relevant). In my opinion, we shouldn't make the article count too prominent (or include it outside of a logical context), because this makes it seem as though we value quantity over quality. —David Levy 21:48, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Agreed per David --Quiddity 21:56, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I missed it. I agree with David Levy, we don't need millions bitten written! at the top of our Roadsign Mainpage.  ;-) hydnjo talk 21:57, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
By March 1st, we will likely have crossed the 1,000,000 milestone — an occasion that will be surely noted on the main page. After that, I don't think the article count needs as much emphasis at the top of the main page. -Kmf164 (talk | contribs) 22:03, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it makes searching more prominent - redundancy shouldn't be such a huge issue as it is the front page only. The inclusion of the search box also allows the no. of articles to be listed - a small feature which it would be a shame to drop (especially since we are now getting into very impressive numbers - I can see the point in dropping it if the number was embarrassing).SFC9394 21:49, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

The fact that this would appear only on the main page is a major part of the problem. And again, the article count is located elsewhere on the page, where it's contextually relevant. Shouldn't we aspire to impress readers via the quality of our articles, rather than bragging about the quantity? —David Levy 21:56, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
It only appearing on the main page is a problem in your opinion - certainly not mine. If it was appearing at the top in all pages then that would be a problem to me (as we would have duplication). The search bar on the left is obscure, and not obvious to the first time visitor whatsoever. The principle function of the main page is to welcome new visitors and show off what WP has to offer - a search field embedded within the main page fits that function like a glove. As for the article count - it is an impressive stat - I didn't say we should brag about it - but equally we shouldn't be ashamed of the number of articles that are here.SFC9394 22:19, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
The standard search box will be rendered far more obscure if we distract newcomers with an alternative search box that disappears as soon as they use it. I didn't say that we should be ashamed of our article count, but we shouldn't imply that it's the most important thing. —David Levy 22:28, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
(after edit conflict) Then one click later when it vanishes would seem to make the real search box even more obscure. hydnjo talk 22:34, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
The standard search box will stay exactly where it is - it ain't going to change any - the chance of a new user picking up on it and using it is exactly the same. Worst case scenario the user goes back to the main page to search again - but that is still infinitely more desirable than having a browse up and down the main page, not really noticing the search box and then browsing on to another website. Having the box there is win only - if your principle concern is users having a seizure because the top search box suddenly isn't there then that simple isn't a problem, for two reasons:
  • 1. Anyone wanting to search again and again is quickly going to notice the second box.
  • 2. Anyone who doesn't notice it (and keeps going back to main page) would have certainly not notice the search box if it was all that was on main page. The end result with these characters is that we would loose them under the current setup, but with top box we will at least keep them in the site and reading the wonderful content.
As for the article count - it being there doesn't imply it is the most important thing.SFC9394 22:50, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
We'll just have to agree to disagree on both issues. —David Levy 22:56, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to point out, that Google removed their running total of "indexed pages" from their frontpage years ago, probably for similar reasons we are placing it lower on the page in this draft: It is a fairly inaccurate number depending on what gets included (that 7,003,952 number includes stubs, undetected advertisements/graffiti, everything requiring cleanup, hundreds of profiles of anime characters (not to pick on a subculture), etc). We certainly won't be printing all the 1,000,000 articles... --Quiddity 02:02, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
I think when wiki or wikipedia becomes a verb then we too could afford to remove it. Google removed it not because it was inaccurate, but simply because it was no longer necessary, they were known as the search engine, so they didn't need to impress anyone with numbers. WP (despite what us who are here everyday might think) is still relatively unknown amongst the web surfing 'normal' people - they aren't going to know upon first glance of the main page whether the site contains 100 articles or 1M - the number helps quantify the size of the place they have stumbled upon, my argument for the number remaining prominent is as simple as that.SFC9394 13:17, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Usability/Main_Page/Draft/Search_box_poll&oldid=40481108"