Talk:Trapezoidal thread form

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Trapezoidal thread

I'm considering moving this article to the name trapezoidal thread form, because the trapezoidal thread form is very similar to the acme form and the acme form is a trapezoid. This is the way they are handled in the book "Design of Machine Elements" by Bhandari (seen here: http://books.google.com/books?id=f5Eit2FZe_cC&pg=PA203). I just think its pointless to have two article about the trapezoidal thread and the acme thread, because all of the info is the same except one is 29 degrees and the other is 30 degrees. Does this make sense? Wizard191 (talk) 23:20, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support. That's funny, I just came here to suggest the same move, almost 2 years later, and found your comment here. Thought you'd written it tonight, then saw the date! My coming here to comment tonight was prompted by the recent edits by Peter Horn and you. — ¾-10 03:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Surely Acme is the common name? --Wtshymanski (talk) 03:08, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure in the US acme is more common, but elsewhere it's probably trap. Wizard191 (talk) 15:20, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As a quick sniff test, Google Books shows 8000+ hits on "Acme thread" and only about 570 on "trapezoidal thread". --Wtshymanski (talk) 03:17, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Move?

It has been proposed in this section that Trapezoidal thread form be renamed and moved to Trapezoidal thread form.

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Links: current log • target log • direct move

Acme thread form → Trapezoidal thread form —

Better get this move discussed. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, as per WP:Commonname, see "sniff test" above where Google Books hits are about 15:1 in vfavor of "Acme Thread". Not all trapezoidal threads are Acme, but all Acme threads are trapezoidal. Which search term gets more views in a month? --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral - I think from a logical standpoint that it makes sense to move this, but based on a policy standpoint it makes sense to leave it as is. Wizard191 (talk) 15:24, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Another sniff test, in August, September and October "Acme thread form" got around 6000 page views per month while "trapezoidal thread form" got fewer than 30 per month. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:42, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The reason why I would move it despite Wtshymanski's entirely valid point about search hits or page views is superset-subset logic. If you're going to have one article about all trapezoidal threads (nonmetric and metric), then the name for it should be the generic name of the superset. Analogy would be this: *If* all colas shared one article, then you wouldn't name it "Coca-Cola" even if Coca-Cola was 10-to-1 more popular than Pepsi. You'd name it "cola" and have ==Coca-Cola== and ==Pepsi== as sections of it. Now, you could have Acme thread be its own article, and then have another article to cover trapezoidal thread forms as a class. That would work. I just think that you could easily fit all the content into one article, so may as well. However, as a structurist, I can't argue that it *needs* to be one article. So I guess my position comes down to Support but not willing to fight about it—I think from a logical standpoint that it makes sense to move this, but based on several other standpoints (eg, apathy, policy, zen) it's acceptable to leave it as is. — ¾-10 23:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, my position includes the idea that the name "Acme" should be reserved to refer only to the 29° nonmetric thread. The 30° metric thread ought not be called Acme. I'm usually not one to fight sloppy natural language overlap, but in this instance I think it's worth fighting against (preserving the distinction). Oh well, guess I'm done pondering this topic for now. — ¾-10 23:43, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What do the authorities say? That's the only thing that should matter on Wikipedia. Never mind what my "idea" is - I might be ignorant, ill-informed, mistaken, or just plain evil. But find a reference that says "The Acme thread form refers to thus-and-so family of threads" and we're out of the woods. My Machinery's Handbook is packed away somewhere in one of 140 boxes, but that's where I'd go if I wanted to find out what an Acme thread was. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:53, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We've got an article ~~Please read:A personal appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales Screw thread, no, wait, actually it's just called~~ Screw thread (cut'n'paste picks up stuff that we can't see?), is there anything about trapezoidal threads that distinguishes them from Acme that could usefully be explained there? Even "Machinery's Handbook" won't spend more than a paragraph or two on any one thread form, so it might be thin for a whole article. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think your stance that we are all to stupid to determine how to define supersets and subsets is pretty dense. If you continue that thought-path we should only be able to structure the sections of an article based on how the references do, because we aren't smart enough to figure it out on our own. Or for that matter why on earth did we (the community of Wikipedia) allow sections at all because that's WP:SYNTHESIS. Sorry, but that's idiotic. Wizard191 (talk) 15:12, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, "Design of Machine Elements" by Bhandari (seen here: http://books.google.com/books?id=f5Eit2FZe_cC&pg=PA203) states that Acme is a subset of trap. threads. See page 204, halfway down on the left side. Wizard191 (talk) 15:14, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've noticed when I ask for a Coke in a restaurant, I generally get some kind of bubbly brown sweet liquid, though it may come in a blue can instead of a red can. Why isn't the term "trapezoidal thread" showing up more often? Have we been traumatizing readers who type in "trapezoidal thread form" in a search box and are instantly whisked here to read about Acme threads? Could we not merge this into Screw thread and do an overview of the different thread forms and why they are used, and ditch the detailed tables of dimensions that no sensible person would trust off Wikipedia anyway? Show example dimensions for one similar size, where it illustrates differences betweeen similar-appearing thread forms, but no-one is going to base hs QA inspections on a Wikipedia table. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:41, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]