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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject NLP concepts and methods

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by HeadleyDown (talk | contribs) at 09:42, 4 February 2006. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome!

This article is part of a project by NLP zealots to promote their vested interests. It is wikispam. Both psychoanalysis and psychotherapy are not promoting themselves through a project or series of articles. NLP is a fringe practice that has been ditched by psychotherapists for decades. This article should be deleted.

Agreed decisions (style, approach, etc)

  1. Articles which would fall under this project should have the template {{NLPproject}} added to their page at the top, letting readers know that there is a project and possibly style or content standards concerning that page.
  2. Pages that contain mixed NLP and non-NLP uses need consideration as to whether the subject matter warrants creating a separate NAME (NLP) article, if this might be helpful. (It won't always be appropriate, discuss here if unsure)

Articles involved and current status

A list of pages tagged as being part of the {{NLPproject}} can be found here

Quick ideas: the following would probably be considered examples of tools which were either developed within, or built into the core of, classic NLP. It's not necessarily complete yet. The categorization is mine, for convenience:

Definitions and principles
Models
Working methods and tools


Theoretical constructs, definitions, background and other

Articles needing special attention or with major controversy

General Discussion

Literature (1972-1985)
  1. Structure of Magic Vol 1. 1975a (100 citations)
  2. Structure of Magic Vol 2. 1975b
  3. Frogs into Princes (Bandler & Grinder, 1979)
  4. Reframing (19XX)
  5. Unlimited Power (Robbins, 19XX)
  6. Patterns of Milton Erickson Vol.1 (1976)
  7. Patterns of Milton Erickson Vol.2 (1977)
  8. NLP Volume 1 (Dilts et al. 1980)
  9. Dilts, Roots of NLP (1983)
  10. Dilts, Applications of NLP (1985?)

Do you want to include the developers in this Project. Or limit it to the concepts and theory only? --Comaze 10:26, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The draft list of "original developers" is useful, but no, thats biography not NLP. Its a useful list so I'm putting it here for when we need it: Richard Bandler ... John Grinder ... Judith Delozier ... Robert Dilts ... Leslie Cameron-Bandler ... Stephen Gilligan ... Steve Andreas ... Connirae Andreas ... Christina Hall ... Frank Prucelik
Standardise citations.
  1. I want to use standardised notation and citations throughout the entire project. The same style as in Structure of Magic Volume 1. --Comaze 10:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    They should probably be heavily cited, more than usual, in view of the controvery surrounding the subject. Whilst I don't think there is such controversy over individual concepts or methods, it is clear some editors would wish for full formal citations, we should respect that, IMO. FT2 12:15, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Categories

I have removed Template:NLPproject from pages which are *not* NLP pages, such as the map-territory article. We can look at those in a while. Meantime it would be presumptuous to be appearing to "claim" them for NLP. FT2 15:39, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Logical Levels in NLP

So that we can include all definitions of logical levels, and chunking, and the controversy that surrounds them; I want to rename the Neurological levels article to:

template

Please don't add the template to articles, rather add it to the talk pages. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:NLPproject to see which articles need it moving onto talk pages. thanks Martin 16:42, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Removed to talk pages. User:Comaze note :)
Also, no need (yet) to create blank pages without content -- not really wikipedia policy is it to allow those??? Or at least add a few lines from a source text and a {{stub}} tag FT2 17:59, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Noted. :) --Comaze 23:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Issues needing urgent attention

I think the following issues are in need of urgent attention:

  1. The article Persuasion uses of NLP needs some good and sourced items, to a high standard. See the political section for what I mean. Ideally examples that clearly show it is not by chance, and taken seriously, and evaluated as effective, otherwise they will indeed be poor examples of its use. I also want to add a section on cult-like uses, for neutrality, which I haven't got round to yet, we could grab that off the main article.
  2. Can we check out psychological, psychiatric, counselling and clinical professional bodies, for indications of their views on NLP. Examples might be whether they refer to NLP therapists on their website, whether they will refer clients to NLP therapists or have them as members, whether they host themselves talks on it, and so on. A list of credible bodies and what could be found, would be fine.
  3. Ditto (secondarily) for clinical acceptance (or otherwise) of Ericksonian hypnotherapy (because it's NLP-derived).

There's a reason I'm hoping to tackle these first.

FT2 11:29, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  1. NLP has been used by a number of individual psychiatrists, psychiatric nurses, cognitive counsellors, general practitioners. However, there aren't many non-NLP peer-reviewed articles published on the efficacy of NLP in specific clinical problems, due to a number of reasons, including the lack of endorsement from academic circles, NLP practitioner lack of resources in conducting clinical trial, technical difficulties designing well-designed studies in psychotherapy etc. You will most likely find personal testimonies rather than numerical data. There was an RCT by Krugman 1985 on comparing speech anxiety of subjects with waiting for 1 hr against single session phobia intervention, disproofing any differences between the two. However, this study did not reflect authentic clinical problems, such as PSTD, so it is hard to extrapolate actual clinical effectiveness from this study alone. Acosta et. al. discussed about the use of various techniques like NLP, Ericksonian hypnosis, Emergency Medical Hypnosis by emergency mental health practitionners in situations like the 9/11. Int J Emerg Ment Health. 2002 Spring;4(2):119-26
  2. Ericksonian therapy is not NLP-derived. It's important to distinguish 2 versions of Ericksonian hypnosis, namely, Ericksonian School of Hypnotherapy, based on teachings of Erickson, Rossi et.al., and Ericksonian Hypnosis as modeled by Richard Bandler (NLP map of Ericksonian Hypnosis). Like most forms of psychotherapy, it is extremely hard to evaluate Ericksonian hypnotherapy using randomized controlled trials. I think Ericksonian hypnotherapy has a slightly better recognition in psychiatry than NLP, but it is still far from mainstream. Also it is a lot easier to train residences to prescribe psychotropic medication and train residences to do therapy. There are a number of case studies on Ericksonian hypnosis (non-NLP version) published in peer-reviewed journals. (see Pubmed) --Dejakitty 00:05, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Linking NLP Disambiguation Page to Principles of NLP

I am sorry to see the mess with NLP on Wikipedia. I have asked the admin Violetriga to make a link from the disambiguation page to the principles of NLP in addition to the Neuro-Linguistic Programming article. Violetriga has also inserted a link from the disputed Neurolinguistic Programming article to the Principles article. Unfortunately, Headley has removed the admin's edit. Good luck with your project. --Dejakitty 12:59, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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