Talk:Semantic data model

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Semantic data model vs. conceptual data model

The text says that a semantic data model is sometimes called conceptual data model.

Does that mean, that it is just a synonym and the two articles could be merged? Or is there any difference in meaning?

--80.136.6.150 (talk) 16:52, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The problem here is that there is no real article about conceptual data model, just about conceptual schema, which if I am not mistaken is more about database modeling. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 21:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are right. I also know the term "conceptual schema" from the database context (ANSI-SPARC Architecture). Then probably, it is not correct to use the terms "conceptual schema" and "conceptual data model" synonymously like it is done here: conceptual schema. On the other hand these terms are used very inconsistently in literature (some authors claim that "conceptual schema" is not the same as "conceptual data model" / others use these terms interchangeably). --80.136.42.27 (talk) 18:15, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am still not sure. I did ask almost the same question 9 months ago, see here, and again in a discussion 6 months ago on the talk:Data model page (see my 23:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC) comment). I guess you are right about these terms are used indifferent meanings. The theory is far from clear here.

For example I am still wondering if the term conceptual data model should redirect to conceptual schema or Logical data model. And if there is a real difference between conceptual and logical data models...!? What do you think? -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 19:38, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think that conceptual and logical data models are not the same. A conceptual data model is completely independent from a data storage technology (e.g. relational, hierarchical, network or object database model, XML, etc.), while a logical data model is intended for relational databases and is closer to the physical data model, but independent from a specific relational DBMS implementation (Oracle, DB2, etc.). I know at least one modelling tool, which distinguishes these 3 data model types in the way I described.
But I still have to think about the distinction between "conceptual data model" and "conceptual schema"... --80.136.3.28 (talk) 18:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Terms are used very fuzzy and different among authors but you can separate semantic data[base] models = conceptual data[base] models and logical data models. A "schema" in both cases is a model expressed in a specific modeling language. So a "conceptual schema" is a semantic data model expressed in ERM, UML, ORM or similar language. -- JakobVoss (talk) 05:40, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]