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Expanding a bit of MOSNUM logic out to a more general MOS-ish topic

Resolved

 – Just a pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

In Talk:Hybrid name#Spacing or not spacing the multiplication sign I strongly advocate the format "Genus × hybrid" rather than the "Genus ×hybrid" preferred by one botany organization. I've based much of this rationale on much of what is recommended with regard to spacing by WP:MOSNUM, and will be taking this to WT:MOS for discussion. I am thinking more broadly that the highly consistent spacing advice given here can be generalized into a clear principle in WP:MOS more broadly. The super-short version is "don't squish disparate types of text together (and no, we don't care if some group off-WP does)."  :-) — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 06:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Falklands Units RFC

An RFC on units on articles related to the Falkland Islands has been started here. Editors are invited to comment. Pfainuk talk 07:19, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Publishing deviations from the MOS

In certain cases it becomes necessary to publish special cases related to units of measure (for example, US-specific articles, UK-specific articles, scientific article etc). In order to provide transparency, especially where many groups are involved, may I suggest that the following be added as the last item in the subsection Which units to use and how to present them:

• If the preferred set of units of measure for an article or set of articles deviate from those described here and it is necessary to publish such changes, the publication should either be on this page or at the start of every affected article.

I am making this proposal because in 2009 the Falkland Islands Group agreed a consensus on units of measure which is now hidden in an archive. An article Geology of the Falkland Islands which was written by the Geology group was modified by a member of the Falkland Island Group because it did not conform to the Falkland Island Group consensus. This resulted in an edit war. Do we honestly expect members of the Geology Group to wade through Falkland Island Group, or should they be bound by such consensus? After all, the article concerned falls neatly into both groups' area of interest.

I believe that future problems of this sort can be solved by consensus of this nature being more openly published. My suggestion is to enable such open publication to take place.

Finally, should this apply only to units of measure, or to standards generally? Martinvl (talk) 07:25, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

This is instruction creep.

Y'know, the ironic thing is, the reason why we don't follow the MOS as closely as we might like on Falklands articles is because Martin won't let us. He insists that the MOS must apply - as though it were a law - but only in cases where it recommends metric units. In cases where it suggests that imperial units are to be preferred, the MOS becomes some evil thing that cannot be touched with a bargepole.

This is just another standard tactic of Martin's. He knows he can't get consensus for 100% metrication of Falkland Islands against the MOS, so he's trying to force it through. He's repeatedly tried to have the most recent consensus position declared "null and void" on a variety of technicalities, and this appears to be an attempt to force things through by making life difficult for those who disagree with him. Pfainuk talk 17:42, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

In his review of my proposal, User:Pfainuk uses the term "MOS". Had I not known him better, I would automatically have thought that he meant WP:MOS, but having seen his comment elsewhere, I cannot dismiss the possibility that he is really referring to WP:FALKLANDSUNITS. Would he please clarify what he means by "MOS"? Martinvl (talk) 19:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

WP:FALKLANDSUNITS is not part of the MOS. It is - essentially - a proposal that we follow WP:UNITS, including imperial units all those contexts and only those contexts listed by WP:UNITS as contexts in which they are appropriate. You refuse to follow the MOS, insisting essentially that all units must be metric. Indeed, on prior form you've refused even to allow the conversion of metric units into imperial ones. This is the position that you've spent the last four months trying to force on us against consensus on one technicality or another. When it comes down to it, the reason we don't follow the MOS particularly closely is because you won't let us.

But this is not the place to be going into our difficulties. I suggest that this latest attempt to force your views on other editors against their will cease, and that all discussion continue on a more appropriate forum. Pfainuk talk 19:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

So far you have said nothing constructive. Do you have a problem about publishing subsidary MoS documents in a place where everybody can be aware that they exist? I don't. If I have misunderstood the concept of publishing Manuals of Style, please give me some examples of what other groups do? Martinvl (talk) 20:32, 1 June 2010 (UTC)