Talk:Prisoner functionary

Suggested merge

I suggest merging this article to Kapo (concentration camp) since, as the article lead here (and there[1]) states, the Nazis commonly referred to the Funktionshäftling as a "kapo", and this is the term most widely used. "Kapo" receives 2,810,000 Google hits[2], while "Prisoner functionary" receives 224,000 Google hits[3]. Yoninah (talk) 21:37, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Having given this some thought and in light of your remarks about this article at the DYK nomination page, I have come to the conclusion that I am opposed to the merge. As I wrote there, I significantly expanded the prisoner functionary article and added to the kapo article, which had some inaccuracies. I expanded the prisoner functionary article because I kept coming across the term in other articles I was working on. What was then in the "prisoner functionary" article was so insignifcant as to be confusing and even misleading, in that it gave no indication of the huge role they actually played in the concentration camp system. Suspecting there was much more to be known, I found, as expected, a very much longer article on the German Wikipedia. I then brought that information over here, adding to it.

Kapo (concentration camp) was started on December 4, 2005 by Vikingstad and Prisoner functionary was begun on July 21, 2009 by Altenmann. Almost nothing was done on "prisoner functionary" till I began expanding it on May 5. I can tell you I did not do this as an expansion of the kapo article, but rather to understand the term "prisoner functionary".

I think the two articles are fine just as they are, separate, with wikilinks to the other. Some points:

• The German Wikipedia also has separate pages for "kapo" and "prisoner functionary". They are both of similar length to the English pages.
• There is a Kapo disambiguation page, which makes me think the article deserves its own page.
• I've been working on articles related to Nazi concentration camps for several months and in my opinion, the term "prisoner functionary" clearly warrants its own page. I certainly don't think the articles should be merged under the title of "Kapo", even if Google shows more hits for the word.

Marrante (talk) 08:23, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Marrante, I acknowledge your dedication to this article and your vast knowledge of the subject. I am looking at this purely from the point of view of an outsider and of a Wikipedian. The existence of pages such as Prisoner functionary, Kapo (concentration camp) and the Kapo disambiguation page proves only that someone put them up, not that they "should be there". Moreover, the disambiguation page does not even point to prisoner functionary. Both leads state that the terms Kapo and P.F. are synonymous, and most people are much more familiar with Kapo than P.F. I don't understand your objection to expand the Kapo (concentration camp) article with this broader explanation; it would certainly educate people about all the nuances of the "Kapo" label and make for an excellent article. Yoninah (talk) 09:59, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I think "vast knowledge" is a bit hyperbolic, but I can see why you would want to combine the pages. Why not just re-direct the kapo page to "prisoner functionary" and let kapo become a section under the broader term? I think part of my resistance to using the title "kapo" as a header is that it's almost a pejorative because so many of them were really brutal. Yet, many people owed their lives to prisoner functionaries. Marrante (talk) 19:50, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Just a comment - the exact phrase "Prisoner functionary" in quotes receives 914 Google hits, while the exact word "kapo" in quotes receives 1,190,000. --CliffC (talk) 22:02, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment 2 - both of these articles stand well on their own, but could be tied together better. Maybe we should consider simply changing the second sentence of the Kapo (concentration camp) lead to say instead, "The kapo acted as part of the Nazi prisoner functionary system." --CliffC (talk) 22:22, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Or, this crazy idea that just might work - since prisoner functionary has the most 'meat', merge the material in the shorter Kapo (concentration camp) into prisoner functionary, then rename the resulting article to Kapo (concentration camp) and set up prisoner functionary as a redirect to it. --CliffC (talk) 22:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

• Support merge, this article is redundant to the Kapo article, and is also redundantly written. For example, the idea that criminals were preferred by the Nazis is mentioned 3 or 4 times. Abductive (reasoning) 23:41, 25 May 2010 (UTC)