Talk:Cloud computing/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Cloud-computing isn't just the Internet

The first sentence should be modified. There is an entire industry around private cloud computing that is not delivered over the internet, but over private lines. Fonesurj (talk) 19:56, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I totally agree!

Within the Computer Science community, Cloud is used as a general term to describe a set of distributed services possibly running on different computers, networks and sites; that end users sees as a whole system. The term cloud has been used (before the term was picked up by the internet community) by Talarian and later by TIBCO to describe a set of PUB/SUB servers that clients regard as one. Ref: SmartSockets. Having one single entry point (endpoint), an uniform interface and login procedure to a set of distributed services may qualify that domain as a cloud.

Please modify as suggested.

--Malin Lindquist (talk) 07:36, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Illustration: "Cloud computing logical diagram" is missleading

The illustration gives the impression that there is only one cloud, which consists of all known internet service provicders such as Yahoo, Microsoft and Google. Instead, I would suggest something more general like this: CLOUD

--Malin Lindquist (talk) 08:25, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Buzzword

Sounds like an emerging buzzword. Should then have Category:Buzzwords. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 21:50, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree! Now, we're one against the universe! Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 14:15, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Article is for Technical Users

I believe that Wiki articles are needed to address on general users instead of specialists. This article is not very easy to understand and needs some more work in order to be understandable for all users. Beside of this, Introduction may need to be changed or modified to give first time users better impression and understanding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simonare (talk • contribs) 16:49, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Googolality

Google the term "wikiality", and "cabal". This will likely help you understand why your section on criticism was removed. -sine ur posts- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.194.250.225 (talk) 00:34, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Unreliable or misleading intro

I simply don't believe the intro. I get the impression that it claims that "cloud computing" is Internet. I believe it reflects a wish to equate "cloud computing" with Internet, which is factually wrong. I believe cloud computing is an amoebic resource allocation for program execution and memory resources, and also a resource allocation that is dependent on temporary need, much more than any predetermined resource allocation. Bussinessally this implies buying resources for the temporary needs, and no more. I believe that this would seem attractive to economists that don't want to see items of operational costs. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 11:29, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

The following statement seems to me like gargish:

In concept, it is a paradigm shift whereby

IMHO, "In concept," is an intro to a definition or to an elaborate technical description, and whatever cloud computing is, it is not a paradigm shift. Possibly it emerged as a result of a paradigm shift, but the sentence confuses description and process of emergence, which seems like drunk-talk to me. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 11:40, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the lead needs to differentiate cloud computing from general use of the Internet better than it does at the moment. Some time ago I attempted to rewrite the start of the lead to be more meaningful, but I encountered resistance from User:SamJohnston - see discussion here. Letdorf (talk) 12:47, 26 January 2010 (UTC).

Confusing lead

I find the lead to be baffling. And please, no wisecracks about about using simple.wikipedia.org. Two others here read it and were perplexed too. Cheers. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:52, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you, and yes, you are not alone. The introduction "clarity" issue will come up, get discussed, and other editors who disagree typically prevail — and remove the discussion from this page, as if the matter is settled. I find the introduction to be a poor reflection of the spirit of Wikipedia, and a poor reflection of the concept of an introduction. You can see an instance of the older discussion, which was removed from this page, HERE. 842U (talk) 15:09, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I disagree: I think the lead is just plainly illogical. F.ex.:

The term cloud is used as a metaphor for the Internet

As far as I can imagine there are no terms that are metaphors. Terms are defined concepts precisely used in a certain technological or scientific contexts. Metaphors are just similes, almost the perfect opposition of a term. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 21:53, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

And the first paragraph of the lead is just an elaborate circular definition, defining the cloud by referring to the cloud. The entire intro needs a total rewrite. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 21:58, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

what about new cloud computing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.204.171.169 (talk) 07:47, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Every once in a while this comes up, someone tries something new, there's a bunch of refinements and we end up with something pleasing to the masses that's just plain wrong. Like we have now. Remember, we don't have to be precise, just accurate - if cloud ~= Internet then so be it. -- samj _in^out 00:34, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Why was Software as a Service redirected here?

Hello, Software as a Service and Cloud computing are both highly viewed pages on Wikipedia. They are not necessarily the same thing--and ti s a disservice to Wikipedia readers to eliminate the Saas page. I do not agree that the SaaS page should have been redirected to this article and the SaaS page effectively removed in this way without discussion. What do others think? JLRedperson (talk) 17:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with your objection. SaaS applies even if there is no "cloud", not to mention the point that "cloud computing" is much more of a buzzword. - JCLately

As you'll see from the edit logs I worked my way through uncited, biased, irrelevant and at times blatantly wrong content until basically all that was left was what you see here. All three articles (SaaS, PaaS, IaaS) were in an embarrassing state, to the point where the only sensible option was to stub them. The cloud computing article meanwhile had spamtraps for each of these sections and it made sense [to me at least] to house them here until such time as they develop sufficiently to warrant their own articles. Bear in mind also that all three have been fairly stagnant since I last looked at them (~a year ago or more). Now, if you're saying you're going to write a neutral, verifiable article then be my guest but I'm well sick of making excuses for Wikipedia's inaccuracies in the cloud/SaaS community. -- samj _in^out 19:34, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Software freedom vs. Open Source

I replaced "Open source" with "Software freedom", but Jeh restored my change saying it was very disruptive to Wikipedia. I made this change based on an article I read a while back on Open Source Initiative official website, which is considered the official definer and maintainer of what is "Open Source". There is a difference between "free software" and "open source", they both reflect different views. FSF represents 'free software' and OSI represents 'open source'. OSI, as I just mentioned, says web 2.0 application has nothing to do with 'open source' because the software isn't distributed; but FSF insist on the fact that software freedom is what matters, and that web 2.0 applications are either free or non-free software. Choosing the correct set of words is important. We cannot say OSI takes a position that they didn't take. Any objections to the re-change?--OsamaK 15:01, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Any objections? Yes. While I understand the issue of free vs open source software well, this is not the forum for that discussion. "Free" software is a subset of open source (which is a compromise on the "free" side of the free<->proprietary continuum), and it is certainly the latter that we are referring to here. It seems your original edit was made in good faith though, and thankyou for bringing it up on the talk page rather than reverting. -- samj _in^out 10:42, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

The point of vieew that we mean here is the philosophy that concerns about freedom to study, modify and redistribute the software. Open Source, again, has no effect when it comes to undistributed software (that's a fact). By contrast, free software philosophy is matter of freedom, and that's what we want to refer to here. I agree with your point in other contexts and I do support using FLOSS as a neutral term to refer to the same set of software when the philosophical/political point of view doesn't differentiate in the result, but that's a different case.--OsamaK 18:32, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

The "issue" with "open source" is specifically the ASP loophole not triggering the license, which is why it's "open source" that's the issue and not FLOSS. Perhaps we should also s/Linux/GNU Linux/g? :P -- samj _in^out 00:28, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Added section on major research initiatives

Because this is a huge topic, I added a section on some of the major research initiatives. JLRedperson (talk) 02:58, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I have to avoid CoI issues so won't edit that area directly, just discuss it here

* not sure that linking to EGEE is consistent with the "Cloud computing is not grid computing theme

* I'd mention PlanetLab

-steve. SteveLoughran (talk) 20:18, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Certainly seems sensible to have such a section - thanks for taking the time to collate this info. Let's keep it cloud specific though or it'll be a massive coatrack. -- samj _in^out 00:24, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Error in paragraph 4

The documents refers to a 'technical definition' of cloud computing that references a document at [1]. The quoted definition doesn't appear in the document at all, even though it refers to version 15 in the footnote. Don't know enough about the history of the definition to change it myself -- perhaps it refers to an earlier definition? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.11.40 (talk) 20:09, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Removal of passage

The following passage is strange: "The cloud therefore, can refer to a lack of wires or hardware ownership as well as to a lack of software ownership."　How can “the cloud” exists without wires and hardware? And as far as I know all hardware and software that clouds run on have owners. The difference is that cloud providers usually charge for using someone else s' hardware and software resources during (a) fixed period(s) as opposed of paying an upfront fee for purchasing h/w and s/w. --Malin Lindquist (talk) 06:34, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Actually I agree with you; it is totally strange. It is in fact very strange that people seem to feel that Google Maps is a completely free service. Somewhere, someone is paying for that service, just not the company that instructed its employees to use the service. Perhaps the sentence should be "The cloud therefore, can refer to the lack of wires and dedicated purpose at the client side, or ambiguous hardware and/or software ownership." The main problem with defining the cloud, is looking at it from the client side because there it's "Cloudy" (points vaguely up in the sky); and then looking at it from the server side (mega data centres with mobile server units and complex pricing structures). DSP-user (talk) 07:05, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Someone beat me to fixing this. -- samj _in^out 02:48, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

To better understand how Google maps is being paid for somewhere, look into this business model: Freemium. It's free for 99% and 1% pays for the use of what is free. Those who go "Pro" pay for those who use "Beta". This is only possible because of the incredible amount of traffic generated on the internet. A shoe store could never do something like this, but the internet with multiple millions of people logging on and using services, it can only take 1% to fund something of such magnitude.

-J.W. Watson —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.131.70.175 (talk) 16:51, 17 March 2010 (UTC)