Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Exploding tree

Exploding tree

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This article has been tagged as a hoax since September 15, 2009. Although I disagree that it's a hoax, the article looks like it is composed primarily of original research. If I am wrong (this looks like it could be a list of some sort), I will withdraw this nomination. Cunard (talk) 05:48, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or Merge - The article's not a hoax - unless I'm deeply misled trees can explode during certain types of sudden freeze, or from other unexpected natural events - but I'm just not convinced it merits an article. The fact that trees sometimes explode can be well covered in the articles on trees, lightning, weather, et cetera. - DustFormsWords (talk) 06:26, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This is a notable topic that people might want to learn more about, although not one of WP's most high level articles but no real problems with it. Borock (talk) 09:49, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Article about an April fools' Joke that is not notable mostly. Article a hoax. If the part of the article "Some trees explode by lightning" can be expanded to be encyclopedic. Keep otherwise Delete. --3^0$0%0 1@!k (0#1®!%$ 12:09, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 11:41, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Just about anything can explode if hit by lightning. This is a blatant WP:OR violation and needs to be deleted lest similar non-encylopedic articles should appear such as Exploding Toyota Camry (with full tank of gas), Exploding above ground metal septic tank or Exploding can of diced tomatoes. Big Bird (talk • contribs) 13:48, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Or even, heaven forbid, Exploding whales.... Thryduulf (talk) 16:06, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Further to my delete !vote above: the article contains the following sentence "...eucalyptus trees are also known to explode during bush fires..." and is followed by two references, namely The Eucalyptus of California and Eucalytus Roulette (con't). Eucalyptus#Fire contains all the pertinent and related info regarding Eucalyptus fires due to their high oil content and the two references speak of the Eucalyptus phenomenon only. No other trees are mentioned which confirms my belief that this article suffers from an OR violation that mixes fact about exploding Eucalyptus trees with non-notable April fools jokes. Any additional information about Eucalyptus trees exploding in a fire should be added the the main Eucalyptus article, free from syrup-caused maple tree explosion myths. Big Bird (talk • contribs) 16:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Things can explode when struck by lightning, I don't see what makes trees so special. This subject may merit a short mention in the lightning article but is not a significant subject itself in my opinion. Chillum 00:08, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Your opinion is outranked by actual sources. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 17:34, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It only exists because of some editors' obsession with Template:Exploding organisms. This is a bunch of improper synthesis in order to have another article to put into that template. Fences&Windows 00:29, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Fences and windows. This is just a silly meme. Hesperian 02:00, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Uncle G has made a valiant effort, but it's still improper synthesis. It could make an amusing blog entry. Fences&Windows 19:47, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete never notable - exploding aspects are not notable variants of non-exploded entities. If anything, the information can be covered in the specific organisms referred to. Chances are, there is no need for it. This information is more for a book on trivia than an actual encyclopedia. I'm surprised there isn't an exploding watermelons article. Ottava Rima (talk) 03:23, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Certainly not a hoax, as I've seen trees explode when struck by lightning, but not notable at all. Things explode sometimes. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 03:46, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and pure WP:SYN. Much of this category shouldn't exist. They were mostly written before we had well-developed policies against such original research. Cool Hand Luke 13:57, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as per CHL. Horologium (talk) 02:57, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Notability can seem a bit marginal, but there's sources, lots of popular culture coverage and it is nice to see the subject covered this way. There is room for improvement in my opinion. --Cyclopia (talk) 12:47, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep mentioned in multiple reliable sources as one of the hazzard of forest fires, also a property of some plants during seeding. --Cameron Scott (talk) 16:03, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as notable, if peculiar. The ability to refer readers of other articles to a place where information about trees exploding generally is compiled is one of the advantages of a paperless encyclopedia. Original research can be edited out easily enough with deletion.--otherl left 21:02, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep or merge with lightning How can an article be a hoax with this many references? I haven't checked the references myself, have those editors who are calling this a hoax done so? This is a notable, albeit odd article. Ikip (talk) 21:17, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Who are you referring to? – iridescent 21:23, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Perhaps he is referring to this? Chillum 22:20, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, obviously. Pretty much anything will explode if it's heated rapidly. The "exploding things" pages were an unfunny in-joke five years ago, and they're an unfunny in-joke now. Oh, and Ikip, you might want to actually read discussions before you wade into them, as there's not a single person here calling it a hoax. – iridescent 21:29, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- About reading discussions, well, I think that Ikip talks of the nom paragraph, which says that the article has been tagged as a hoax :)--Cyclopia (talk) 21:31, 26 September 2009 (UTC).[reply]
- It seems highly unlikely that "unfunny Wikipedia in-jokes" have travelled back in time to occur in encyclopaedias of the 19th century, and reports by wilderness explorers and tree growers before, then, and since. Uncle G (talk) 17:34, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as synthesis. The individual sentences in the article could be appropriate in articles about lightning, forest fires, the sandbox tree, and April Fools' Day. That doesn't mean they should be joined together in one article. If any editor can produce a single reliable source that discusses "exploding trees" in general as a subject, then let them bring it forward now. --RL0919 (talk) 15:35, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Kiddo, Henry Ward Beecher and John Claudius Loudon have discussed this subject, as have many others besides. Uncle G (talk) 17:34, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I left this for a while, wondering whether anyone else would find the sources that I turned up. They didn't. So I've added them. Uncle G (talk) 17:34, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Unfortunately, these sources do not discuss a general topic of exploding trees. The material from Loudon is about the effects of freezing weather, including the effect of cracking and splitting trees. He doesn't call them explosions, he just says they can sound like "the explosion of fire-arms". The Beecher reference isn't about trees at all, but about wooden boxes. The other two are anecdotes about trees during freezes. The article already had sources about specific types of tree "explosions". What it lacks is any source that considers these different types of events to be a generalized phenomenon of "exploding trees". Absent that, it seems more appropriate for these unrelated phenomena to be discussed in the distinct articles about their causes. Basically, you just found material for use in Frost#Effect on plants. Good stuff, but not a justification for keeping this particular article. --RL0919 (talk) 18:09, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - You haven't read the Beecher reference. Know how I can tell? Because you assert that it isn't about trees at all. Kiddo, go and read it, then you'll have a better idea of what it's about and a sounder basis to make assertions like the above. Hint: It not only mentions trees, but it also cites Loudon.
    You clearly aren't actually reading the sources presented, so your assertions here as to what they contain can at best be taken with a large pinch of salt. Heck, you clearly haven't even looked beyond the two sources mentioned above, let alone at the other twenty mentioned in the article. Indeed, it's fairly evident that you haven't even read the article and even the titles of the sources. Guess how I can, similarly, know that straightaway from what you write. Uncle G (talk) 18:22, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It looks to me like the Beecher reference is found here. Here's how it reads, in part:

“

We are in doubt whether the winter stored sap exists in a state to be affected by the expansion of the freezing fluids of the tree. If the expansion of congelation did produce the effect it should have been more general, for there are fluids in every part of the trunk–all congeal or expand–and the bursting of the trunk in one place would not relieve the contiguous portions. We should expect if this were the cause that the tree would explode rather than split. Capt. Bach, when wintering near Great Slave Lake, about 63° north latitude, experienced a cold of 70° below zero. Nor could any fire raise it in the house more than 12° above zero. Mathematical instrument cases, and boxes of seasoned fir, split in pieces by the cold. Could it have been the sap in seasoned fir wood which split them by its expansion in congealing?

”

It seems like this argues against the phenomenon. Unless there is another reference elsewhere in the book - and Google claims this is the only hit on the words "explode" and "exploding" - I am not sure why this OR the fact that it quotes Loudon makes it somehow a super-source that justifies the article's existence. Frank | talk 18:49, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps I should have worded my first sentence as "the material added to the article does not ..." instead of "the sources do not..." My apologies for that poor choice of wording on my part, particularly if that led to Uncle G focus on lecturing me about reading sources rather than addressing the concern I raised. My original argument was that the article is mixing different types of "explosion" phenomena with various causes (freezing, forest fire, lightning, and reproductive process) that are not mixed in the source material as a single subject of "exploding trees". From the cited sources that I have reviewed (not all, but some), only one discusses more than one of these phenomena. That is a Q&A column that mentions two of the four phenomena (freezing and lightning). That piece post-dates the Wikipedia article, producing the possibility of circularity. (The author of the column has linked to WP on a number of occasions, so we know she uses us as a research source.) Since this is the only source cited in relation to more than one of the four types of "explosions", it seems likely that it is the only one that mentions more than one. Since it is a shaky source and only mentions two of the four phenomena, the problem of synthesis still exists: is there a reliable source that generalizes on the subject of exploding trees in a way that incorporates the different phenomena discussed in the article? I still see no answer to that question. --RL0919 (talk) 19:32, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This article makes no more sense than would an article on exploding cold water pipes. Trees are not unique in being split by the expansion of water, and to call that an "explosion" stretches credibility to breaking point. --Malleus Fatuorum 18:38, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]