Talk:IB Diploma Programme/Archive 9
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Reception section
In my view, the Reception section was fairly balanced until recently, if rather long. Now ONY added a "newsy" item of a school in UK that has decided. Of course, for each such school one could add several others that have decided to adopt the program, but isn't that a little ridiculous? Are we going to keep adding on to this section to balance ONY's additions? Why is a school that drops the program (among many schools that keep it) suddenly an encyclopedic content? Tvor65 (talk) 12:20, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- It is encyclopaedic content. Just because it happens to be current content on an article that can be updated daily, doesn't mean you have the right to remove it on the grounds that YOU think it gives undue weight. You want to add some more CURRENT positive reception about IB? By all means. Be my guest. Your vigilance in attempting to censor what can be added to IB articles is destructive, unwelcoming and biased. ObserverNY (talk) 13:24, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ObserverNY
- According to this, information about one school is not encyclopedic. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 13:40, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- It is encyclopaedic content. Just because it happens to be current content on an article that can be updated daily, doesn't mean you have the right to remove it on the grounds that YOU think it gives undue weight. You want to add some more CURRENT positive reception about IB? By all means. Be my guest. Your vigilance in attempting to censor what can be added to IB articles is destructive, unwelcoming and biased. ObserverNY (talk) 13:24, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ObserverNY
- TK - according to this: WP:Undue Weight Neutrality requires that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each. With the inclusion of my recent edit, there are now 10 positive and 10 negative lines cited under reception. Therefore, the reception section is now balanced. ObserverNY (talk) 13:52, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ObserverNY
- I'm with Truth on this. Just to add on top of what he wrote, the school in question isn't even notable enough to have its own article on here. So that text is really not worthy of inclusion. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 13:53, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Agree as above, seems undue. A pure mathematical formula shouldn't be used to establish neutrality. Dayewalker (talk) 13:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- (ec)Quoting from WP:UNDUEWEIGHT : "Keep in mind that, in determining proper weight, we consider a viewpoint's prevalence in reliable sources, not its prevalence among Wikipedia editors." What you have added is not prevalent enough for an encyclopedia. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 14:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Agree as above, seems undue. A pure mathematical formula shouldn't be used to establish neutrality. Dayewalker (talk) 13:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- I'm with Truth on this. Just to add on top of what he wrote, the school in question isn't even notable enough to have its own article on here. So that text is really not worthy of inclusion. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 13:53, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Who's the new editor? Do I have to go search to see if one of you dragged him/her over here? If you want to keep the most recent "Reception" restricted to 2008 and never update the IBDP article to include a 2009 cite, so be it. ObserverNY (talk) 14:04, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ObserverNY
- Dayewalker - Welcome. Your user page indicates you pride yourself on being a master of neutrality. You should be aware that I am the only long standing editor to this article who represents the "minority" opinion regarding this educational program. My edit does not include any personal opinion, but is evidence of a recent ousting of the IBDP at a private school in the UK where the programme was previously politically promoted by Tony Blair. It is significant as there has been a change in the education commissioner there, and reflects parental and student distaste for the programme. The IBDP is considered by many to be a "fringe" educational program, with only 670 public and private schools in the entire U.S., a third of its global total. I respectfully request that you allow Wikipedia readers to see that not all schools that have adopted IB are thrilled with it. ObserverNY (talk) 14:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ObserverNY
- ObserverNY, if you can find multiple credible sources stating that schools are dropping the IB programme, then that would be fine. But building your case school by school is not fine, at least not here. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 14:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Dayewalker - Welcome. Your user page indicates you pride yourself on being a master of neutrality. You should be aware that I am the only long standing editor to this article who represents the "minority" opinion regarding this educational program. My edit does not include any personal opinion, but is evidence of a recent ousting of the IBDP at a private school in the UK where the programme was previously politically promoted by Tony Blair. It is significant as there has been a change in the education commissioner there, and reflects parental and student distaste for the programme. The IBDP is considered by many to be a "fringe" educational program, with only 670 public and private schools in the entire U.S., a third of its global total. I respectfully request that you allow Wikipedia readers to see that not all schools that have adopted IB are thrilled with it. ObserverNY (talk) 14:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ObserverNY
That's ok Truthkeeper. I'm done with you folks at Wikipedia. I leave you with this video produced by an IB student. Listen carefully. Follow the math. Hear his message. I'm doing my part to try and spread the truth about IB. I am not alone. I feel this student's pain.
Regards, ObserverNY (talk) 14:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ObserverNY
- Wikipedia is not a soapbox, and it isn't the place to grind your axe. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:51, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is a place that emboldens the Left to censor the truth. An encyclopedia is supposed to contain FACT. This student's documented international K-12 IB experience is FACT. As I said before, I cannot change the minds of those whose are closed to FACTS that don't support their beliefs. I know I cannot change the minds of those who are beholden to IB. My presence here was to try and bring to the average Wikipedia reader, representation of FACTS about this program in an article that previously read as an advertisement for IB. Wikipedia is not supposed to be an advertisement. It is supposed to tell the good, the bad and the ugly about people, historical events, organizations, etc. I did my best. Au revoir. ObserverNY (talk) 15:09, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ObserverNY
- In truth, I think the video has some facts that are worth including in the article, such as the fact that students have one year to re-take tests and that students must re-take tests at a school in which they are enrolled. Also, the in issue of cheating and the consequences thereof might also be worthy of inclusion. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:14, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Then find a reliable source to say it. Some video made by a guy who was slighted by IB isn't reliable. There is no problem with showing both sides of the argument for IB, as long as we do it through reliable sources. And Observer, take your complaints about leftist censorship elsewhere; I recommend Conservapedia. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 15:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- I know the youtube isn't reliable, but in my view, using reliable sources, it is worth considering adding the consequences of cheating on internal assessments or exams. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Then find a reliable source to say it. Some video made by a guy who was slighted by IB isn't reliable. There is no problem with showing both sides of the argument for IB, as long as we do it through reliable sources. And Observer, take your complaints about leftist censorship elsewhere; I recommend Conservapedia. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 15:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- In truth, I think the video has some facts that are worth including in the article, such as the fact that students have one year to re-take tests and that students must re-take tests at a school in which they are enrolled. Also, the in issue of cheating and the consequences thereof might also be worthy of inclusion. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:14, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is a place that emboldens the Left to censor the truth. An encyclopedia is supposed to contain FACT. This student's documented international K-12 IB experience is FACT. As I said before, I cannot change the minds of those whose are closed to FACTS that don't support their beliefs. I know I cannot change the minds of those who are beholden to IB. My presence here was to try and bring to the average Wikipedia reader, representation of FACTS about this program in an article that previously read as an advertisement for IB. Wikipedia is not supposed to be an advertisement. It is supposed to tell the good, the bad and the ugly about people, historical events, organizations, etc. I did my best. Au revoir. ObserverNY (talk) 15:09, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ObserverNY
- Well if you do pursue that, have at it. But keep in mind, this student was charged with COLLUSION, something he has never heard of, not cheating. ObserverNY (talk) 16:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ObserverNY
- Truthkeeper, "the fact that students have one year to re-take tests and that students must re-take tests at a school in which they are enrolled. " Not certain that is correct TK. Students can sit their re-sits at another IB Diploma school given sufficient notice to that school is my understanding.I agree that may be some merit in an inclusion of the consequences of academic dishonesty. I guess I'll watch the video and see if I come back enlightened. --Candy (talk) 18:43, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Hey now I have watched it I'm not impressed I'm afraid. A student that "accidentally" sends his IA to his partner makes him guilty of collusion which is academic dishonesty as their reports are very similar? I have to say, I find it difficult to swallow that he thinks this is OK! The rest is just a bitter tirade. In fact he confuses the exam and the IA and the reasons why he has to be enrolled in his previous school (this is someone who has already been guilty of malpractice and now wants to submit his IA with no oversight by his teachers - go figure that one). This is someone who his school (yes his school has to pass this on to the IB) has deemed guilty of malpractice and the IB has agreed. So, the IB didn't rob him of the Diploma he was never awarded it. His school clearly also believed he shouldn't receive the Diploma. Sorry, not worthy of more comment or inclusion. Certainly not a valid source of anything for Wikipedia. However, TK was right we should investigate and perhaps add a art on academic honesty. --Candy (talk) 19:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
I would therefore hard to find it difficult to believe that his school had not informed him of the IB's academic honesty policy.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Candorwien (talk • contribs) 19:00, 9 September 2009
The youtube video itself is not worthy of inclusion. In my view, being allowed to retake the exam, despite academic dishonesty is very generous. In any event, a phrase, a sentence at most, devoted to academic integrity and the consequences of cheating perhaps is worth adding to the "Awards" section.Ha, striking what I've just written, the "Awards" section does address plagiarism. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)- One other thing I'd like to question is where this sort of text belongs: on this page, or on the main IB page. Or any of the other pages... — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 19:33, 9 September 2009 (UTC)