Help talk:IPA/Czech and Slovak
transcription changes
Currently, this page offers too narrow a transcription convention. There are a number of things we should do to modify it
- Use <o> for both long and short o. It looks like the vowel is actually mid to close-mid, and we might as well use the typographically easiest letter (this is how it's done with Spanish, Greek, and Hebrew).
- Remove the diacritics for the diphthongs so that they are either [ou], [ɛu] and [au] or [ow], [ɛw] and [aw]. I'm leaning towards the former but if Czech makes contrasts between e.g. Cau and Ca.u, then the latter is better.
- organize the symbols in alphabetical order like they are done in the other IPA for X pages. This also includes not separating sonorants and consonants into different tables.
- remove the voiceless version of the fricative trill since it's an allophone and requires additional diacritics that we needn't require editors to use.
- note somehow that /oː/. /f/, /g/, and the two voiced affricates appear mostly/only in foreign loanwords.
- Then we can create {{IPA-cs}} and start using this page. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 18:28, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
- FWIW, I don't know whether you can find true minimal pairs, but there are certainly Czech words where adjacent vowels do not form a diphthong, e.g., použít [ˈpɔ.uʒiːt], nauka [ˈna.uka], neustále [ˈnɛ.ustaːlɛ]. These can be also pronounced with an intervening glottal stop, e.g., [ˈpɔʔuʒiːt]. — Emil J. 12:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
- All right. That's reason enough to use w rather than u. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 07:23, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
- FWIW, I don't know whether you can find true minimal pairs, but there are certainly Czech words where adjacent vowels do not form a diphthong, e.g., použít [ˈpɔ.uʒiːt], nauka [ˈna.uka], neustále [ˈnɛ.ustaːlɛ]. These can be also pronounced with an intervening glottal stop, e.g., [ˈpɔʔuʒiːt]. — Emil J. 12:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
This needs to reflect what's used in the articles. Currently the voiceless and diphthong diacritics are being used.
I realize the English approximations I just added aren't always very good. Maybe we can add note to the ones that are particularly poor. But this key is for people who know neither the IPA nor Czech, so merely illustrating the IPA with Czech isn't going to do much good. kwami (talk) 08:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)