Talk:Unified Video Decoder

Regarding the references in dispute

Okay. Look, that chinese forum reference, is not simply "to prove UVD+ exists", the fact that reference DOES NOT mean anything for its existence, and is simply saying the difference between UVD and UVD+ is the "HDCP support for video streams at higher resolutions", notice the HDCP support is not necessarily equates to the decoder can actually decode higher resolution video streams.

Your argument is that, I quote form your edit summary: "UVD+ is incorrect and furthermore some cards indicated as UVD+ do not do "higher resolutions" and RS780 is a UVD2 chipset"

And while I reverted your edit, and asked for a source, you simply ignored and failed to provide any source, also you cannot provide proof in the "RS780 is a UVD2 chipset" claim you made.

You should made you stance clear and provide sources to your claims here. Thank you. --202.40.137.202 (talk) 03:52, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, RS780 is at best an UVD chipset according to AMD marketing material, FYI. --202.40.137.202 (talk) 03:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Then what is the purpose of the Chinese forum? It is not my reference. I am removing a section of the article that has NOT been referenced properly. Please reference AMD marketing material that proves the existence of such a UVD+ and not some Chinese forum that I can add a post and say anything I please. It is YOUR responsibility to prove that UVD+ exist, not MINE to prove it does not.

If you agree with aforementioned, then the entire article should be written without any reference to UVD+. And if you desire, RS780 would be UVD and not UVD+. On the other hand, you reverted the article in its entirety with the references to UVD+, while you only asked to prove that RS780 is a UVD 2 ASIC.

As for the issue of whether RS780 is a UVD 2 ASIC, the main differentiating factor is the hardware decode of MPEG2. Looking at AMD marketing material, http://www.amd.com/us-en/0,,3715_15532_15533,00.html, scroll down to AMD M780G and under "ATI Avivo HD Technology" you will see that "Unified video decoder is a dedicated hardware block to decode and playback HD-DVD and Blu-ray content. Supports MPEG2, VC-1, and H.264 formats." Note the MPEG2 format reference. --76.64.50.229 (talk) 04:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, for your reference, UVD/UVD+ has "Hardware Acceleration" for MPEG2 video stream playback and "full hardware decoding" for H.264 and VC-1 video streams, so if AMD say that UVD/UVD+ does not support MPEG2, it's not making any sense at all as it's just "partially supported", do you agree with me? So this phrase "UVD+ supports MPEG2, VC-1 and H.264 formats" has mislead you to think "RS780M/M780 with UVD+ (or UVD per AMD marketing material)" has "full hardware decoding" for MPEG2 videos, then sorry, you are being misleaded, it's not the editor's fault, it's your own problem for not digging deep enough for facts on the matter and believe in the fancy advertisment phrases. --203.218.194.8 (talk) 16:24, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but UVD is not used for MPEG2 decode in that case. As already written in the article, "The UVD 2 features full MPEG-2 hardware decoding, alongside the full hardware decoding of H.264/MPEG-4 AVC and VC-1 video streams".

There are two main issues being disputed here:

1. UVD+ has not been referenced and really should be removed immediately. Wikipedia itself says that references must be credible sources and a forum is hardly a credible source.

2. RS780 supports UVD 2. I attempted to provide reference to the closest thing of official word from AMD marketing. But now it seems that you dispute my proof that RS780 has UVD 2 and accuse me of believing in fancy advertisement phrases.

As for 1, there does not seem to be any dispute and it was inadvertently reverted as part of reverting the edits which included RS780 being UVD 2. If the existence of a UVD+ cannot be properly sourced, then it does not deserve to be written as fact in this encyclopedia and should be immediately removed.

For 2, the reference indeed proves that RS780 supports UVD 2. The fact that the UVD is supporting MPEG2 implies UVD 2. The article already says exactly this. --76.64.50.229 (talk) 19:47, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Besides the "closest thing of official word from AMD marketing" you have attempted to cite, what other sources agree with your point that "RS780 has UVD2 included"? You said the editor does not give concrete sources about the existence of UVD+ but you also failed to do so. According to Wikipedia Policy on sources, the first sentence: "Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy", and I personally don't think that materials from AMD marketing is a "third-party source". --218.102.212.123 (talk) 17:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I shall enter into the discussion with the official Avivo HD whitepapers which can be found at http://ati.amd.com/technology/avivo/downloads.html The one is about the UVD from the 2600 Series:

ATI Radeon™ HD 2000 series can support HDCP on all of is DVI interfaces, be it single-link DVI or dual-link DVI

(e.g for 30" display @ 2560x1600). On the "new avivo" paper, it is said

AMD introduced the Unified Video Decoder, or UVD, commencing with ATI Radeon™ HD 2600 and ATI Radeon™ HD 2400 family of products, and continuing with later ATI Radeon™ HD 3000 series.

Therefore, nothing seems to have change on the 3600 Series, and the UVD+ advantage (HDCP in higher resolution) depicted on the Chinese forum is infirmed. Moreover, on the Purevideo page, it is said that UVD is limited to profile High Level 4.1 while I've just tested successfully a High@L5.1 on my HD3650. Some source will be welcome here too. I've also tested a MPEG2 HD video, and DXVA is clearly used (PowerDVD), so UVD supports already MPEG2. (in windows XP/ default WRM7 renderer, enabling/disabling DXVA is pretty easy: when the video contains subtitles, DXVA is disabled, with no subtitle, DXVA can be enabled, check also MPC-HD -> the difference in CPU usage is massive: from 5-10% to 20-80% depending on the source). However, I cannot state if it is "hardware assisted" or "fully decoded by the VPU" (bitstream), probably the first. Concerning UVD 2 (4800 series), many features are introduced (see the whitepaper), the most significant may be the upscaling processor for SD source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.229.174.186 (talk) 18:38, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Citation for lower UVD2 CPU usage

Computerbase HD4870Review(German) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.3.29.73 (talk) 14:01, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]