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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Fish and karate (talk | contribs) at 08:49, 14 October 2005 (→[[Tim Shell]]). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Tim Shell

Ok, I happen to have a lot of respect for Tim, being a board member and such. And I don't believe much in the notability thing. But, Tim doesn't seem notable to me. His assertions to notability are being the Bomis CEO and being a Wikimedia board member. We should not make special exceptions for people who work with Wikimedia, this is bad. It seems like a huge self-reference to me. And, it uses information from the Wikimedia Foundation wiki. I feel this is original research because it's written by Wikimedia. I hope to soon become as notable as Tim Shell, and I would make a self-nomination for VFD if an article was written about me at the same level of notability. --Phroziac(talk) 01:38, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. Just as notable as Sonja Elen Kisa. --WikiFanaticTalk Contribs 21:05, 12 October 2005 (CDT)
  • Keep. CEOs are notable, and board members of the 45th most popular web site further increases notability. Unfocused 07:00, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete... the Sonja Elen Kisa argument isn't very compelling. Regardless. I don't think every CEO is notable; there needs to be auxillary reasons for notability (notable company, media coverage, etc.) Bomis fall just short of notability IMO, so I don't really see Mr. Shell as notable as a CEO. Board Membership does not confer notability in and of itself. I wonder if we would even be havign this discussion if Mr. Shell had no involvment in Wikipeida and was just a CEO of some random dotcom with a board membership on some other random project...--Isotope23 13:53, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • My own opinion regarding the value of this article has nothing to do with Bomis or Wikipedia. Any CEO and/or Board member of similar sized organizations should have an article. Tim Shell's relationship with Bomis and Wikipedia means he has an article sooner than other similar people. Please don't make comments that don't assume good faith on the part of people whose opinion is opposite your own. Unfocused 15:08, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have to concur with unfocused. --Phroziac(talk) 15:25, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • My musing on whether or not we would be having this discussion if Mr. Shell was not involved in wikipedia was not an assumption of bad faith on your part Unfocused and I'm sorry if you took it that way... it was just a comment and it wasn't directed at you. I simply don't agree with your contention that every CEO of a mid-sized company is notable. In my opinion that is extremely low bar to set for notability. That's just my 2 cents and you are certainly entitled to disagree with me. On another note, I would support a merge of this information into the existing Bomis article as has been suggested here by others.--Isotope23 18:02, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • Just so you know, I hadn't intended to "get in your face" over this, but only to point out that your sentence beginning with "I wonder if we would even..." seems to presume improper bias on the part of the article author and all subsequent "keep" voters. It really was a very minor point, perhaps I should have put it in small text. Unfocused 20:13, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weakest keep ever. Bomis doesn't fit my "deserves an article on every CEO ever" criteria, and Wikipedia, in terms of the prominence of it, doesn't deserve an article on every board member ever in my eyes. And yet, we are Wikipedia. Obviously. And, honestly, I'm voting to keep because Mr. Shell is so notable in a Wikipedia context that it will help the project to have an article on him around. Did that make a lick of sense? Lord Bob 15:16, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - if this is kept, I want to see articles on Magnus Manske, Brion Vibber, Tim Starling, Michael Davis, Florence Nibart-Devouard, et al. Rob Church Talk | FAD 15:29, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Such a minor branch of a subject that it doesn't deserve an article: Merge the useful content into a more comprehensive article [Bomis] and redirect --SPUI (talk) 15:49, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • The best guide to notability, be it of people, companies, software, products, or web sites, is whether other people, independent of the subject itself, have considered the subject to be notable. The litmus test for that, outlined to greater or lesser extent in all of our various notability criteria (WP:BIO, WP:CORP, WP:WEB, and so forth) is whether the subject has been written about in multiple separate published works that whose sources are independent of the subject xyrself. (WP:BIO talks about press coverage and independent biographies. WP:WEB talks about media attention. WP:CORP uses the broad term of published works, and is explicit about excluding self-promotion.)

    Furthermore, as Geogre says, it is a disservice to AFD and to the encyclopaedia as a whole to apply criteria erratically and inconsistently. It is wrong to hold the Wikimedia Foundation, its board members, and its web sites to standards that are different to the standards to which one holds other companies, people, and web sites.

    Researching this person, I have yet to find anything published about him by someone independent of Bomis or the Wikimedia Foundation that isn't a straight one-sentence mention, as an aside, that parrots Wikimedia:Board of Trustees, Bomis (from the version before Jimbo Wales removed mention of Tim Shell from that article), or Wikimedia. See the one-sentence mention of Tim Shell in this article in Florida Trend for example.

    Additionally, Lord Bob's argument is wrong. Claiming that someone is notable within the group of users of a web site does not wash for Wikimedia board members and Wikmedia project editors any more than it washes when people assert that their BBS sysop is notable within the users of their BBS, or that a web discussion forum participant is notable within that discussion forum, even though unremarked upon elsewhere. Other people, independent of the subject, have to regard the subject as notable, and have to demonstrate the extent to which they find the subject notable by creating and publishing works of their own about it.

    As such, this person does not satisfy the criteria for notability. Delete. Uncle G 16:55, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Perhaps I wasn't clear. I wasn't asserting that he was notable because he's notable within Wikipedia, I was asserting that, for the sake of smooth operation of Wikipedia as a website, it would be valuable to have articles on the board members. It's not that he's notable as such, it's that he's notable enough within Wikipedia that Wikipedians would have an easier time of it knowing who he is. Not that this article is that great, but it might get expanded. As you might have guessed from the weakness of my keep, I'm not entirely sold on this argument but it's stuck in my head and I cannot ignore it. Lord Bob 18:30, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
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