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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 70.89.229.25 (talk) at 14:30, 13 November 2008 (→Fox Learning Systems). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Fox Learning Systems

Fox Learning Systems (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Does not appear to be notable. Sources are local or press release/puff piece types. Biggest claim to fame appears to be that it was founded by a former local news reporter. Recommend deletion. SiobhanHansa 20:13, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Isn't the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette a local paper? And the e-magnify piece seemed like a fairly straight forward puff piece intended to highlight an entrepreneur rather than take a critical look at the business. For the sake of completeness I would mention that as well as press releases there is another newspaper reference to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review but again that seems like a local paper to me. -- SiobhanHansa 22:44, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment on Comment Your above logic could be applied to anybody that sites the New York Times or LA Times. Are they not local papers as well. They didn't site the Erie County Nifty Nickel. These are 3 articles that are as legitimate as any on wikipedia, Supported by Press Releases... Debate the information pertaining to the press releases if that is your issue, the whole article should not be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.28.104 (talk) 23:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Disclosure the above comment with the IP is mine Zdubya36, i don't want anyone to think i was trying to use multiple users to get a point across... (i logged into a different computer but forgot to log into wikipedia before i posted)
The New York Times and to a lesser extent the LA Times are sold all over the world. It wasn't my impression that this was generally the case for either of the two Pittsburgh papers - though maybe I'm wrong. -- SiobhanHansa 00:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Zdubya36 comments in the discussion portion... i have never had to debate a deletion before —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zdubya36 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Disclosure the above comment with the IP is mine Zdubya36, i don't want anyone to think i was trying to use multiple users to get a point across... (i logged into a different computer but forgot to log into wikipedia before i posted)
These are much more compelling as evidence of notability. Thanks for adding them. -- SiobhanHansa 00:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've taken a much closer look at the studies and can't find that they indicate notability. The one in a prestigious Journal (AJP) does not look at the effectiveness of FLS's product but at a quality improvement protocol of which their product happened to be a part - it may be that any training product would have been as effective - plus one of the studies author is Dr. Rosen - spouse of Debra Fox and co-founder of FLS. So not there's not even independence in it being picked to be part of the protocol. Other published studies are just well done product testing - and as yet there's no evidence in the article that the results have been particular influential. -- SiobhanHansa 22:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your thorough assesment and help forming the page. I do still disagree with you in the merit of nobility but i believe you have put a fair effort into looking into the site as i feel you did not do before marking it for deletion. there will be many more things added to this site including people that have used the studies in their studies. another study about strokes that they have performed and some other information. About the studies... Fox Learning Systems headed all of these studies and hired all of those doctors for their research... which is why dr. rosen would be the author. I know this company is notable and as it stands i am more than willing to have someone judge it for deletion because it is a lot stronger than some of the content that currently lives on wikipedia and was unfairly marked for deletion. At this point i have provided more than enough evidence to its nobility and i am not trying to change your opinion at this point because i feel nothing would. but again thank you for helping form the site to wikipedias standards... please check back in and review the changes i will make in the next couple days... maybe i can change your mind[[Zdubya36 (talk) 00:39, 12 November 2008 (UTC)]][reply]
  • Delete A nonnotable provider of educational material for nursing home staff. That people associated with it produced one product about which they wrotea paper which appeared in a peer review journal is not notability. Notability would be judged for this the same as for other research groups--dozens or hundreds of references to it. It is necessary to show wide use. DGG (talk) 02:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If you would read further you would see there are other studies in which they were involved... another of which is sited in their wikipedia site. Not only do they produce educational materials but also do independent studies to help the learners as well as the elder care community. This company did not produce a product based on their studies. They distributed this information to the industry. A peer review journal is notable. I once again go back to if "peer" review is not notable then anything published in JAMA is not notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.28.104 (talk) 03:10, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep They have provided sufficient sitations to prove they are a note worthy company. They produce a widely distributed product. They are a multifacited company that works with/for large corporations. They perform their own studies which are sited in industry publications, and which their unique findings are used by other industries and companies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.28.104 (talk) 03:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge/Redirect to Debra Fox. There seems to be a lot of ad-speak at this moment, but with or without it, I don't see the company's notability. Having a laundry list of notable clients doesn't make a business notable itself. --CliffC (talk) 17:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This company is notable in the elder-care industry. Not every business on wikipedia has worldwide exposure. The question should be "is the business notable in a certain industry?" The answer for Fox Learning Systems is YES! If you were familiar with the LTC industry, there would be no question as to the notability of this company. Moreover, the Post Gazette is a legitimate enough source to justify wikipedia's legitimacy requirments. The notion that it needs to be in a "national paper", of which there are only about 5, is completely ridiculous. I know there are not any requirements set in stone for what a reliable source is, but lets use common sense. The Post Gazette is the main newspaper for the Pittsburgh region, with over 400,000 readers on weekdays and over 600,000 on Sundays. Plus their website gets a significant number of hits. Theovoice (talk) 21:15, 12 November 2008 (UTC)— Theovoice (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

The issue I have with the post-gazette isn't about whether it's a reliable source but about whether it helps meet our notability guidelines which says coverage should not simply be local. A Pittsburgh company whose newspaper coverage is only in Pittsburgh newspapers - that's looks like local coverage to me. The rest of what you say about the company may well be true - sources that verify it would be great. So far though we have local newspapers and studies by people connected with the company, press releases and a puff piece. -- SiobhanHansa 00:39, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I will put up some industry sources soon to put the issue of notability to rest. Please take a look at the following wiki and tell me how it meets notability if FLS doesn't. My opinion is both of these pages should be kept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viv%C3%ADsimo Both of these companies are notable in a certain industry. I know nothing about Search Enterprise software field, but I can see from their sources, which are some press releases and other technological journals, that they are notable.
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