Talk:Sense and reference

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Larry's sense and reference essay

In an edit from 23:36, 25 Apr 2004 User:BoNoMoJo added an extract from a text by Larry Sanger to this article, which still survives. Does anyone know where I can obtain the whole text? Thanks ---- Charles Stewart 14:48, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think the translation of "Bedeutung" as "reference" is unwarranted and misleading. Frege was using a word already in use (it was not a neologism), but applied a "function change" by altering the semantics of the word, i.e. using it in a new way. In his essays, he does not once explicitly define the word, although in Function and Object he writes "Now what is the content, the Bedeutung of...", hinting at a possible definition. Indeed, he states in another essay (Concept and Object) that fundamental logical terms are undefiniable, and thus can only be "hinted" at. Bedeutung is one such word. It is unfair and inaccurate to present Sinn and Bedeutung as "sense and reference", since the latter is untranslatable, and in Frege's mind undefinable! Carnaptime 19:36, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"The morning star" vs. "Phosphorus"

I think that it's of great importance to keep the distinction between these two terms straight. One is a description, the other a name. Although the essential points about sense and reference can be made using "the morning star" instead of "phosphorus" this usage may confuse people who do not already understand Frege's distinction, especially if they are learning about Russell's theory of descriptions at the same time. Moreover, it is more accurate to make the point about names rather than descriptions. --Patrickr 05:52, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Kripke thought terms like "The morning star" functioned like names because of their idiomatic status. The danger with moving to Greek names is the risk of some loss of accessibility. --- Charles Stewart 07:50, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)