Talk:Project Management Institute

The Project Management Institute is a professional association dealing specifically with the topic of project management.

Discussion

An anonymous contributor wrote "Need to compare with real degrees such as MBA, also reads like a PMI Brocure [sic] and is not NPOV" I think the current information is factual, and doesn't express an positive or negative opinion. Stating that a professional certification is not equivalent to a college degree isn't worthy of an encyclopedia entry. Many employers require a PMP certification as a condition for employment or advancement, but do not require an MBA. --Garrybooker 04:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Good discussion. The fact that PMI has "sold" the PMP to some employers means, what? Also consider comparing PMI/PMP to the backlash from the Agile/Scrum approach, that's not opinion, that's fact. While PMP'ers still have enthusiasm for PMI, in a sense, this is a "bill of goods" being "sold" to the public.

Dear Anonymous Person: The expression "a bill of goods" means something intentionally misrepresented, or something passed off in a deception or fraud (I looked it up). What do you think is intentionally misrepresented, deceptive or fraudulent? While I don't always agree with the PMI processes (I think many small projects require a different approach) I have never seen anything in PMI that is deceptive or fraudulent. It is a very ethics-oriented organization. --Garrybooker 16:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

It's several things. PMI is attempting to establish itself as the gatekeeper to jobs, where a job req is the PMP only issued by PMI. This is a concerted effort. Then they sell the PMP training, books, and charge for the exams. Then the cycle begins all over again. There are many, many alternatives to PMI's PMP, a BBA, an MBA, many colleges have 4 year programs as well as graduate programs that include substantive management course work. There are also other certificate programs, CDP/CCP/CDMP/ISA (granted it's different but the concept is the same). In contrast, the PMP exam is a fairly superficial quiz. While it's better than nothing, it's not substantive. As a hiring manager, I'd be tempted to take off points for a PMP.

"I'd be tempted to take off points for a PMP" Sounds like you had a bad experience w/ PMI...did you fail the test or get passed over for someone w/ the PMP. As for PMI/PMP cycle, it is no different than GMAT and B School and LSAT and Law School (The guys who handle the accreditation of law schools, ABA, also run the LSAT). A degree is dated shortly after you walk across the stage, a cert shows you have the desire and drive to keep learning...

A PMP is an affectation. Sorry, it's not substantive. You also have it backward. A cert like the PMP is about acquiring a few buzzwords; a degree is a reflection of effort to acquire wide ranging and enduring fundamentals. Neither is a substitute for experience. The fact that the PMP asks for experience does not make it a certification of experience or accomplishment. Unfortunately, everyone wants to set themselves up as the gatekeeper, ie, "buy my cert, pay for my classes, give me a portion of your income." Please do not compare the PMP to law school.

The other problem with the PMP is that the "body of knowledge", while OK, good maybe, isn't exactly how projects really work. There is too much emphasis on form, stakeholders, paper deliverables, meetings, and not enough on the hard issues. It's not substantive. What's really telling is that when you drag the internet for examples of PMP success stories, you find the converse.

Comment from Mel... As someone who has managed projects (IT) for many years, I wish I had discovered PMI years ago. The PMBOK has a great deal of practical advise that took me years to discover by trial and error. Obviously it's not equivalent to an MBA, for example... but it's more relevant to my work experience than my BSc in math. I'm not sure it belongs in Wiki... but don't slam the PMP certification... Mel —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ve2dc (talk • contribs) 17:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Program Management

Is there any more information about PMI's Program Management certification and its differences to the Project Management certification?

I've read all the information PMI has to offer and it seems like Program Management is focused on mid to senior level project managers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ykimva (talk • contribs) 15:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Comments on the PMI Article

I believe the article on PMI is of a nature that does not belong in Wikipedia. It expresses more the opinion of an individual instead that it is factual. Such an opinion article may do well in the yellow press, but does not belong in Wikipedia.

I think the article is more balanced right now with the last section. Pm master 15:30, 24 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pm master (talk • contribs)

I was first surprised to see the article but I agree, the artcle shows the potential issues and is not advertisement. The PMP certification is not comparable with a university diploma but clearly with a test like TOEFL. I am a PMP so I can compare. --Dr.Bernhardt (talk) 12:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

PMI Incorporation

Some chapters and SIGs are listed as registered Pennslvania non-profit corporations, but PMI itself doesn't seem to be listed. Clarification appreciated! To search the Pennsylvania Department of State business entity registration database, use this link [1]. --65.78.213.196 (talk) 00:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

It looks like PMI itself is in that list; here is their listing: [2]. The whole section on Not-for-Profit Controversy doesn't belong in this article because nonprofit status is a purely legal designation, not a moral one. Nonprofit organizations are entitled to charge fees for service -- they're just not allowed to make a profit. Megan Farrington, DPA (talk) 15:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Being a purely legal designation and the factual demonstration that PMI is legally listed as a non-profit - this whole section should be removed. This post has been hijacked by someone unhappy with the organization and is just venting. Who will take the intitiative to do the re-write?Reb4179 (talk) 05:25, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

"Operational Goals" Section

This is the most subjective portion of the article and is not supported by citations. It should either be removed or edited accordingly. --Gordon Jones (talk) 20:56, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree that this section should be removed. Makingprogress19 (talk) 21:01, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Suggested page changes

Since there was a call for more sourcing and information, I wanted to go through this page and make suggested changes, including references. I started at the beginning, however, i believe the Not For Profit Status and Operational Goals sections have some factual mistakes as well. Here are my suggested changes for the current opening, Overview, Membership and Certification sections:

The Project Management Institute (PMI) is a member association and advocacy organization for the project management profession.

Overview & Membership

PMI was founded by a group of five volunteers in 1969. Currently, the organization has 260,000 members in more than 171 countries. As of January 2008, 70 percent of the membership lived in North America.

To serve its members and the profession, PMI has created industry standards, such as ''A Guide to the Project Management Body of Knowledge'' (PMBOK® Guide), which has been recognized by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). PMI also issues several professional certifications, produces industry and research publications, offers involvement in local chapters and holds four conferences, called “global congresses” around the world each year.

PMI also has representative offices in Washington, D.C., and Beijing, China, as well as Regional Service Centres in Singapore, Brussels, Belgium and New Delhi, India.

Certification

PMI’s offers five professional certifications:

PMI Risk Management Professional (PMI-RMP)^SM
PMI Scheduling Professional (PMI-SP)^SM
Program Management Professional (PgMP)^SM
Project Management Professional (PMP)®
Certified Associate in Project Management (CAPM)®

Nearly 260,000 people hold the PMP certification. In 2007, it earned the ISO/IEC 17024 accreditation from the International Organization for Standardization (ISO). Credential holders do not have to be members of PMI.

To maintain most PMI credentials, holders must earn Professional Development Units (PDUs) which can be earned a variety of ways such as taking classes, attending PMI global congresses, contributing to professional research or writing and publishing papers on the subject.

Makingprogress19 (talk) 04:23, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

This is a very good suggestion for a re-write. It is NPOV and removes all of the inflammatory rhetoric that was existing. I would only suggest moving the discussion of its founding and membership to follow the listing of the certifications. It makes more sense to me to start out with a discussion of what PMI is and does before discussing its history and size. Reb4179 (talk) 05:29, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Section Removal

i would like to suggest removing the section Not For Profit Status section. It's neutrality has been questioned and it has been marked as vague and is need of valid citations. If there is objection can we discuss ways to make improvements to it so that it is more neutral? Makingprogress19 (talk) 22:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)