Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Precision Manuals Development Group

Precision Manuals Development Group

This article fails to establish notability (WP:CORP) as it is not the subject of significant coverage in secondary sources that are be reliable, and independent of the subject (flightsim software reviews are not independent of the subject). The subject is not covered in articles or books. Products of the company have been covered in commercial reviews only. Icemotoboy (talk) 23:51, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Game-related deletion discussions. Icemotoboy (talk) 23:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the list of video game related deletions. MrKIA11 (talk) 00:38, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - forum posts and some mentions, but no coverage in reliable sources -- Whpq (talk) 01:55, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Hold on. "Independent" means that there are no inappropriate ties between the reviewer and the company/game. A flight sim magazine doing a review of a flight sim game is perfectly independent unless the magazine is owned by the same company that made the game. I believe the nom is referring to the list of reviews/awards on the company page.[1] Please have a look at these to decide if they are

reliable. Ham Pastrami (talk) 04:13, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - the trade-related mentions are absolutely relevant. I don't see how their having commercial reviews only has anything to do with notability. Would it help if I as a user wrote a non-commercial review? Tim (talk) 04:27, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I was not saying that articles on the company's products be deleted, I was suggesting that the company itself is not notable as no reviews have been done on the company. The reviews are done on the products, not the company itself. Until a reference appears anywhere dealing with the company itself, I feel that this article should not be included on wikipedia. Icemotoboy (talk) 04:30, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - The majority of the article contains original research or information that is contained nowhere in any of the reviews. The entire History section is a good example of this, including a statement that the company recently updated their website. If I were to edit the article such that it fitted with information available in the reviews, it would simply be a stub saying that the company exists. However the company simply having (or not having) a product does not make it notable or not notable, that notability should be established in an independent article/book/source on the company itself.Icemotoboy (talk) 04:42, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Though I understand the rationale it's common practice to create software developer articles and either use them as navigational lists or to act as a combined article for their software. A glance at the company's accolade page shows multiple reviews from specialist websites and half a dozen reviews from two separate magazines - all of these combined demonstrate ample notability for an article on the combined products. An interview is often as good a secondary source as you can get for a development house, and in this case there is one in the external links - this can be used to give some info about the company itself, then their development history and reception can be hammered from multiple reviews - which offers notability and neutrality above and beyond a stub just about the company itself. Combined articles like that are better weighed with WP:N rather than WP:CORP, and I believe this one's fine and has capacity for expansion and improvement. Someone another 06:21, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]