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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Manarius (talk | contribs) at 01:55, 3 April 2008. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

NASIOC

NASIOC (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

I have attempted to previously place this as a PROD, but the article creator user:RCIM wanted to dispute this, stating that a internet forum dressed as a car club is notable because 1) it has been in existence since 1999, 2) 140,000 members, these of which wouldn't have to pay a penny to join, 3) it boasts of being the largest, for a national club, it will be. All in all I can't see why is this organization being anywhere notable. Moosato Cowabata (talk) 15:40, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete unless sourced to show significance. Claims of "this number is large" count for nothing at all. We can only have an encyclopedia article on this topic if sufficient sources have covered it. The article contains no useful sources at all, right now. Friday (talk) 16:10, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. NASIOC.com is currently listed as the 38th largest message board in existence at www.big-boards.com. The membership exceeds 166,550, as indicated on big-boards.com. It is extremely significant as the largest North American Subaru Club. Agree that the article needs some work, but the existence of the article is not trivial. Cardomain article featuring NASIOC.com: http://www.cardomain.com/features/nasioc STiSquirrel (talk) 17:28, 2 April 2008 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
  • Keep. What is the debate here? Are we arguing that NASIOC.com isn't notable or that it isn't a club? I assure you its more than just an internet forum. There are "club" meets all over the country. The locals around Detroit have been meeting weekly since October of 2002, and most have been into the brand before the forum existed. We talk about cars and help wrench on each others' cars. We go on "fun drives" as a group. We invade local autocrosses as a group. We go to dinner, go-kart racing, BBQ in my back yard, wakeboarding, skiing, etc...AS A GROUP. We know each other and keep in contact through the forums on NASIOC.com. As for notable...if notable means that you charge your members money to belong, then I guess we probably don't care to be notable. Why is money a requirement to have a club? Did you charge money in elementary school when you had your little club and hung out in the tree house? The article needs a lot of work. There is no arguement there. Don't delete it because you refuse to accept that an internet forum is a good, efficient way for a club and its members to keep in contact and plan daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly events. Scooby921 (talk) 18:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
    I'm sure this is what any clubs do, does that make your club anything special from other clubs, NO. Moosato Cowabata (talk) 20:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. NASIOC.com not only has a relationship with Subaru of America, but has also had NASIOC events featured in the Subaru of America magazine DRIVE amongst others. It seems odd that without actually doing any research, people would claim it fails to meet the WP:ORG guidelines. Next time please make at least a modest effort before denigrating an organization, it will allow people to take you seriously instead of thinking you lazy and biased. That NASIOC is compared to Porsche Club in a negative way clearly shows not just a bias towards more popular and more "upscale" type clientele, but also shows a complete lack of understanding of what NASIOC does. Such elitist behavior is against what Wiki is supposed to be about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomhaur04 (talk • contribs) 18:12, 2 April 2008 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
    What a big piece of BS you are talking. I'm not at all comparing this to the Porsche Club of America, one of the reason for nomination is the historical sense these clubs have which the nominated club is just too recent,
    These clubs I referred to is historically significant club who has its own article here, the other clubs as such are AMOC, also is Crosley Car Owners Club considered upscale, are the Mid Night Club considered upscale. As for being recognized by Subaru, Did all it take was an e-mail to their PR department to be recognize, I'm sure that is what any clubs can do. Well this clubs does what all other clubs does and does that make them historically significant? NO
    As for anything to do with the Porsche Club of America, I'm not even a member of them, plus I drive a Silvia S15 with a GP Sport bodykit which wouldn't qualify for a membership with them. So you can shove that "upscale" type clientele thing up your ass. Moosato Cowabata (talk) 20:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: "So you can shove that "upscale" type clientele thing up your ass" What a fine example of an unbiased moderator. The problem with Wikis is, someone has to be given power to moderate it. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. This person obviously has a personal problem with NASIOC and is using Wikipedia as a forum to express his or her dislike. Did he or she get beat by a Subaru in a legal or illegal automobile competition? Did he or she go to NASIOC and get berated for posting a street racing story? Who knows?

The point is, when deciding to delete or keep an article, the burden of proof should be on those who wish to delete, not keep, and this should be a HEAVY burden. Drive space is cheap. Making Wikipedia more inclusive is better - if some "unnecessary" articles are there, so what? It's not like a paper encyclopedia that will get physically larger with more entries. The search feature will allow someone to find what they are looking for - no one has to "turn pages" past the NASIOC entry to get to what they want.

The level of emotion and the perseverance that a handful of people have toward pushing through this deletion speaks volumes. Why are they so concerned? No one doing a routine "clean up" would be so determined to delete an entry. There's more to this story. We'll probably never know.

  • Comment: Guys, you might as well stop recruiting people from your club to come in here and say "keep this". This is not a vote. Unless reliable sources have covered this club in a nontrivial way, it's probably going to get deleted. Your best bet for saving the article is to try to source it. Friday (talk) 18:20, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: any clubs will have their own periodicals, does that make them special . Moosato Cowabata (talk) 20:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: It just isn't worth it to argue with you. You are slowly contradicting yourself, but you'll argue your point until everyone gets tired of listening to the village idiot and lets you win. Go ahead, have the entry deleted. Someone will start a new one the next day. Not only is NASIOC far different from your belief, but we're persistent bastards as well! Scooby921 (talk) 21:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment:As a group we understand that the page does not exactly follow the guidelines but now we have been given two guidelines first the WP:ORG guidelines and second web notability guidelines. How are we expected to update the entry to follow the guidelines if the community does not give us clear information on what guidelines to follow. As you can see we have already been working on editing the page in order to conform to the guidelines but it makes it difficult when we do not have clear guidelines to follow. Again to reiterate what has been said before, NASIOC serves more than just its members. It serves the entire Subaru community as a whole, it participates in philanthropic charities to the degree of thousands of dollars and has been published in many articles.Cavafox (talk) 23:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: It should be noted also that when one puts the search term "Subaru" into Google, NASIOC does appear on the first page of results. Manarius 01:55, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
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