Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fictional applications of real materials

Fictional applications of real materials

Entirely original research (from primary sources) that attempts to catalogue every fictional application of a real materal. Merge any relevant information into the pertinent articles, but we shouldn't be a repository for comic book/sci-fi trivia.

Note - the above description is inaccurate, I believe. This is not for *any* use in fiction, which would indeed be unmanageable. It is only uses where a material has some different property than it does in real life. LouScheffer 15:09, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as nominator. /Blaxthos 23:35, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment How is a list of "primary sources" any different than any other WP:LIST? ~a (user • talk • contribs) 00:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - My intent was showing that each entry is referenced by the primary source (namely, the work of fiction in which each material is fictionally applied). However, we prefer secondary sources on Wikipedia -- a source that cites the primary source and discusses the subject matter. It's doubtful any of these have such significant real-world relevance that secondary sources will discuss the fictional applications. This is simply trivial. /Blaxthos 16:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I see this as no different than listing fictional characters, which is very common and accepted in Wikipedia. Also, no one is putting in their own fictional uses, it's all used in other fiction and hence not original research. On the third hand, I find the 'Science origin' series pretty useless, since there is no connection at all to real properties. (i.e How could experimenting with Argon make characters more resistant to damage, even in principle?). Most of the others have *some* connection to the real material. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LouScheffer (talk • contribs) 01:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I think this could be improved by (a) restricting it to fiction in which the normal laws of physics otherwise apply, and perhaps (b) noting the connection with the real element.

I modified the article to see what this might look like. Feel free to change/comment/revert... LouScheffer 18:53, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As a reader of Wikipedia, I personally find it interesting since it ties together elements (pun intended) that are just a small part of each individual story, but show a common thread across all sorts of fiction. LouScheffer 15:09, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Besides consisting of trivia, the article tries to have far too broad of a scope for a list. Eric119 04:55, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the scope is too big. After a year or so, there are still a manageable number of entries. If you look at the description, it is not any use in fiction of a real material. It's only when the *use* is fictional, so it's not something the real material can be used for. Can you think of any more examples, offhand? If not, the list is probably fairly close to it's natural size. LouScheffer 03:01, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - imagine what this list would look like if someone decided to add every time a doctor administered oxygen on a medical show or every movie with a building made out of brick. Otto4711 13:48, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But the list is not uses in fiction, it's fictional uses. Since oxygen is used in ERs, and bricks in buildings, they should not be included. LouScheffer 02:50, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Otto, lol. Weak delete, reason below. – sgeureka ^t•c 14:31, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure you are not confusing "uses in fiction" with "fictional uses"?. I think Otto's examples are "uses in fiction", but they are not "fictional uses", since they are normally used for these purposes. LouScheffer 03:01, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, but I thought about this again and came up with the following delete-worthy reason: This topic has a major trivia-like quality to it, and there is no (sourced) article accompanying this list that would demonstrate the topic's notability. An alternative is merging this list into all the pages of real elements, but what you'd get is those ugly trivia-like sections (if they don't already exist - ~~see Neutronium#Neutronium in fiction~~ (accidental bad example, this seems to be a made-up material to begin with, but the point remains)). Fact is: Fiction is made up per definition, and what most likely happened is the creator thought up an element with fictional properties and named it like a real element. That's IMHO non-notable "coincidence", and since there are hundreds of fictional universes, this produces crufty lists of non-notable occurences that tell the reader nothing except for "hey, a real element named ### was used in show/comic ####." But I see there are more lists like this (Fictional chemical substances) that suffer the same problem and should IMO be deleted just the same in their current unsourced state. – sgeureka ^t•c 09:36, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep In a Wikipedia that is populated by articles about comic book characters, it's good to see an article that shows that exposing yourself to radioactivity will give you cancer rather than superpowers. TV, movies and comic books, which Wikipedians are so fond of, are woefully ignorant of chemistry and physics. You can have your articles about the various forms of kryptonite. Let us have an intelligent "you can't actually do that" article to balance out the kid's room in Wikipedia. Mandsford 15:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - We don't keep articles around simply because they're useful. Beyond that, information about radioactivity and cancer should be in articles about radioactive materials, not in a list of fictional applications of real materials. Even if we granted your utility argument your logic is broken -- someone who does not know that a property was fictional would not by default go looking for a list of fictional properties. /Blaxthos 16:07, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - No, but their friends who have a tighter grasp of reality might... I disagree with the description of this as "comic book/sci fi trivia". This isn't in the same league as, say, "The Justice League". Mandsford 18:31, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, because it is a beautifully organized article. All articles can become unwieldly somehow, so just keep it as restrained as possible and continue to add references. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 19:12, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The cosmetic appearance of an article is completely irrelevant to its encyclopedic merit. Otto4711 21:01, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep We may prefer secondary sources, but there is no objection to primary ones.--Bedivere 19:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - an original research article, but clearly an article who's boundaries are indefinable. If someone used a plastic snake to stop someone bleeding, I guess that would and could be used in this article. Rgds, --Trident13 16:52, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: True, but the article can (and should be, IMO) improved by requiring the association with a real use. I'd say improve it, not delete it. LouScheffer 06:29, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment any subject can be made to look ridiculous by suitable imaginary examples. Examining the actual list, it is limited to a relatively small number of elements and chemical compounds. The use of various constructed objects in fiction is covered elsewhere. DGG (talk) 22:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]