Talk:Bermuda Triangle

See also: /Archive1,/Archive2, /Archive3

Sources

As this page deals with a contentious issue I think that it might be a good if somebody went through and sourced them to a book or journal etc before this page starts attracting Tag and WP:V nazi.

I'd do it myself, but I don't know enough about most of the incidents to do so accurately.

perfectblue 08:42, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I did as much sourcing as I could and had it listed on the Bermuda Triangle source page, as there's just no room in the article. I'm still finding stuff and adding to it. Carajou 23:30, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

A re-make of the article

Ok, this article needs to be a FEATURED ARTICLE, with that little barnstar in the upper-right corner, so I think there's more that can be done. So, here's some suggestions:

• Since this article is about the Bermuda Triangle, the various books on the subject should be treated as primary sources and placed in first position in all subheadings. If one has any of these books, like the Berlitz version, cite it where needed.
• A rebuke should follow in second position, and that includes anything which clearly contradicts what the Triangle writers have said, like the newspapers I cited. If there is no separate article on an incident, such as the KC-135 takers, we should go into detail here about it.
• If there is a genuine mystery with any given incident (like the Witchcraft), say so. If the incident in question is found only within the Triangle books and no where else, say so. If the Coast Guard has admitted such, say so.
• Go into as much detail as you can on any subheading...here's what the Triangle says...here's what the facts say...something like that.

This is just a suggestion, and I'm sure someone has a better idea. Carajou 00:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

We're not near featured-article status yet, as a large number of the reports have not yet been "digested" with the original source material, as you've said before. Likewise, several WP:Paranormal writers have shared my criticism of the article being biased-POV toward skepticism of the disappearances, which ARE strange . Whether liked or not, there ARE strange events in the region...and point blank, as my own assertion, the military and Coast Guard claims of the region being just as safe as any other can't be trusted not to lie about it, if they lie with ease on other things so blatantly. In any case...a lot more work before any FA talk. Still waiting for the Pogo 22 info, btw. --Chr.K. 10:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Expect 6 to 8 months for any reports; it's that way with Flight 19 via the Naval Historical Center. I don't know what the Air Force is. But, should you or anyone decide to get one, ask for it to be placed on a CD as a PDF file, and have it uploaded to the WikiCommons, if that's possible. Carajou 21:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Credibility problem

I don't like the recent news on TV or the papers about Wikipedia's image. I don't need to repeat what happened, but it does ulimately reflect on us, the average editor, as to content in any given article. In this particlar article some of you are mad at me because I have insisted on sticking to the facts and insisting on documentation. I think the problem is partially my fault because it alters the Wikipedia policy of neutrality; it makes it lean toward one side at the expense of the other.

But the point is I want this article to be the best it can be, where there's just no questioning its credibility. I want the average student who is doing a research paper on the Triangle confident that he can use this article as a well-written source. It means also that I have to swallow some pride here, drop my own personal beliefs in the subject (I don't believe in it, by the way!), and make it better. What say you? Carajou 18:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that if someone loses their credibility, then anything they say will be tainted. Even if they cite their edits, someone could say it's a selective citation. Ultimately, they would have to leave off editing. I've steered clear of major edits on Mothman (a favourite subject of mine), after being accused of bias. I just didn't want to have to justify myself or my work every time. Incidentally my name really is Martin and I really do live in Totnes! Totnesmartin 20:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Do the edits anyway, both major and minor. If you know you have the facts, documentation, and other stuff to bolster your argument, then you can't go wrong. And the supposedly tainted stuff by a dis-credited writer...it can be used provided that we can look up the sources that may back it up. And I'm Brian, and I live in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, just a stone's throw away from the Battle of Stones River. Carajou 21:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Brian? I prefer Carajou. Perhaps you change your real name... Totnesmartin 23:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I thought about changing it a long time ago, but the county court where I went thought "Herbert Dinwiddie" was too laughable, so I gave up! Carajou 23:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Oldest newspaper story with the name "Bermuda Triangle"

I went through Proquest's newspapers again, looking for the oldest newspaper report on a missing aircraft, ship, whatever, and the incident in question had to have the words "Bermuda Triangle" as part of the story. The search was limited to the New York Times (not much of a choice with Proquest...I would like to see many others), and the search was limited between the dates 01/01/1960 to 01/01/1975. All that came up were advertizements for vacations on Bermuda, as well as the Berlitz book being on the New York Times best seller list for the end of November, 1974. No incidents at all. None. Nada.

That means the oldest newspaper account in which the writer uses the words "Bermuda Triangle" to describe a disappearance has to be the SS Sylvia L. Ossa, which went down south of Bermuda in 1976. I put up references on both the Bermuda Triangle source page and SS Marine Sulphur Queen, as they were sister ships. But again, that is limited to dates I entered while searching through the New York Times alone.

The point of all that is I want to see references to the oldest Triangle writings. We have Gaddis listed here; we have George X. Sand referenced, and a few others who have made their marks in magazines. I thought it would be interesting to have the reader see the oldest use of a newspaper entry with the Triangle title directly related to a disappearence. What say you? Carajou 04:59, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Freak Waves

I moved the section on Freak Waves to the Natural Explanations section, as this is a natural explanation. Why it was previously under Popular Explanations, I do not know. It may be popular, but it fits better under natural phenomena. Thelastemperor 04:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I originally placed it there, possibly as it was one of the popular theories regarding the incidents...but it still works where you placed it. I also moved the related pic to go with it. Carajou 00:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Citation on methane concentration

This sentence is requesting a cite: "Methane also has the ability to cause a piston engine to stall when released into the atmosphere even at an atmospheric concentration as low as 1%[citation needed]" under Methane Hydrates. I saw it on the show Dive to Bermuda Triangle on The Science Channel. Is that a reputable cite? MDfoo 02:57, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

A good source is one that can be checked by others, so they don't have to rely on your say-so. Plazak 22:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not expecting others to rely on my say-so. That's why I didn't cite it in the article. I could not find an online reference for this assertion. But it seems that the original author may have got the information from the same show. imdb link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408692/ I will continue to look for a cite. MDfoo 19:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean to jump on you. I intended "your" in the more generic sense. I should have written more precisely: "so they don't have to rely on the author's say-so." Plazak 13:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, gotcha. I assume that the writers of the show got their information from somewhere, but I cannot find it on the web anywhere. It's probably in some science journal offline. I'm going to leave this as it is. MDfoo 11:02, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

It was a television special on the Discovery Channel. I remember watching them pump methane into an airplane engine. The special had to do with a recent discovery of some airplanes that went missing off the coast of Florida. 155.33.109.198 20:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Total numbers of ships?

There are a couple places where the article mentions how heavily trafficked the triangle area is, and that the number of incidents is small relative to the number of ships/planes/etc passing through. Does anyone have hard numbers on these? How about a brief note to the effect of:

An average amount of daily traffic for the rough triangle area is:

 * XXX commercial ships (freighters, tankers, cruises, etc)
 * YYY pleasure/private ships (yachts, sailboats, columbian drug runners, etc)
 * ZZZ aircraft

Thanks! Jeffadams78 18:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Quicksand

Hasn't it ever come to anybody's attention that the sand on the seabed of the area in the Bermuda Triangle may be quicksand, so any planes or ships which disappear may be sucked underneath the seabed

Quicksand does not suck anything down. Please see the Wikipedia article on the subject. Plazak 18:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I read in a book, although i cant remember which book, that in the Bermuda triangle, scientists have measured the ocean floor there and they said that at times, the floor would sink to a depth they never thought was possible. I don't think its quicksand, because quicksand never sinks, only the people that walk into it do. I also read something about the methane gases.--71.253.97.210 03:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

The possibility of extremely murky material at the oceanfloor has been studied, and often rejected. Either way, it does not explain the instances of disappearance right off radar screens at altitudes in excess of 25,000 ft., among other things. --Chr.K. 11:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

citation / references

• we really need to cite a lot of things in this article, i cant tell if people made some of the "facts" up or if its just personal opinion or what not (:O) -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont · email} 19:15, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

skepdic.com/bermuda.html

shouldn't this, or something to that effect be included in the article? as it stands now, this article only reinforces the erronous assumptions people have about the triangle.

If you're referring to the eroneous assumptions people make about several of the more extremely bizarre events being explainable by normal scientific rationales, I concur. Also, please identify, if you will. --Chr.K. 11:15, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

USS Scorpion

The sub went down about 400 miles SW of the Azores... 2200 miles from the Bermuda Triangle. See this Google map. Anynobody 01:51, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Quorum Sensing

I'd like to propose a theroy based on the current research into "Quorum Sensing"[1] demonstrating the properties inherent in certain waterborn algeas found in area of Bermuda[2].

see also:[3]  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rdailey1 (talk • contribs) 17:20, 12 September 2007 (UTC)