Talk:PPSh-41

The PPSh-41 is called the "davaj guitar" in former soviet satellite states. This refers to the WWII Red Army soldier saying "davaj tshasi!" (hand over your wristwatch ... or I will shoot you!) because clocks were the most sought-after objects among soviet soldiers, they confiscated several millions of them from civilians and POWs. Afterwards the USSR bought several wrist-watch companies in Europe and transferred their equipment back to the USSR to satisfy the peoples appetite for clocks during the 1950s and 60s. 195.70.32.136 18:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

• But what does that have to do with guitars? In Poland thaere is a rhyme "Nic tak nie cieszy jak seria z pepeszy" [1] "Nothing is as funny as a burst of automatic fire from a PPSh-41" :) Mieciu K 00:01, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Factory Militias?

A Jane's Guide from the 80s indicates that the PPSh-41 was still in use by "factory militias" as late as the 1970s. First, what exactly is a factory militia - I'd assume workers tasked w/ defending their own factory, but am not sure. Secondly, any confirmation of this? Jane's is usually pretty authoritative though.

In many communist states there were attempts to arm the working class to ensure the power of the communist party. Such workers militias like the "Kampfgruppen" in the GDR were often used as light infantry and were equipped with old WW-II-weapons like the German K98, the soviet Mosin-Nagant or the PPSh-41. So I think, Jane's Guide is right. Nekka 09:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Factory militia is probably an equivalent of Polish Straż zakładowa which were uniformed security men employed by a particular factory as guards. In Poland after the fall of communism these "worker's millitias" survived for a few years in some large state-owned factories before being replaced by cheaper outsourced security firms. Mieciu K 23:54, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. Perhaps we should add a section detailing it's use/deployment after the Second World War. I know they turned up in Vietnam, were widely used in the ComBloc countries and still turn up in the Third World. In fact, I recently saw a picture of a Dozo fighter carrying one.

German conversion attempts

Quoting from the latest article update:

some sources report, however, that the convertion attempts did not work

This being phrased as it is, it begs the question - what sources? int19h 07:06, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

No sources, this is made up (although it is a frequently-retold bit of "gun store trivia").

The 7.62mm Tokarev round (used by the PPSh) and the 7.63mm Mauser (used by the Germans in WW2) are virtually identical. However, some persons who can't remember the difference between "Mauser" and "Luger" mistakenly formulated the idea that the 7.62mm Tokarev and 7.62 (.30) Luger cartridges are the same- and .30 Luger is just a necked-down 9mm Luger (or vice versa).

They then formulated the idea that it would be easy to convert a .30 Luger to 9mm. This would, of course, be a virtually impossible field modification, since no soldier in the field would have the tools needed to ream the entire bore to 9mm and reconfigure the chamber for the larger-diameter bullet.

Some German soldiers did, indeed, utilize these guns, but they were loaded with 7.63mm Mauser cartridges.

EDIT: I don't intend this to be construed to mean I am refuting the existence of the "MP41(r)" modification- these were indeed used. However, this modification was not a field modification, it was a complete replacement of several primary components, including the barrel, and was completely successful. Roundeyesamurai 15:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Why did they ??

Why did someone delet my article section for popular culture??!! It was perfectly good i was just trying to contribute and it gets deleted?? why and who did this??

It could have been me forgetting to log in; even if not, I would have done it just as well. Here's why: this section does not properly belong to this article - the article is meant to be about the weapon itself and its history, not how it was portrayed in hundreds of Western films. Such lists grow in size way too fast, and their relevance to the subject of the article is rather weak... If you want, you can create a separate article for that, PPSh in popular culture, and link to it from here (see Uzi submachine gun and Uzi in popular culture for a good example of how it works). But cluttering the article on the gun itself with such things is not a good idea.

As to why the section was deleted rather than split - I think this has mainly to do with the fact that it was not of high quality in and of itself (for those who want to have another look - here is the archived version). -- int19h 06:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I never knew that, but would it kill people to add to it? I'm just trying to pitch in, plus it said something about "Copyright Issues." - Ace Fighter

The copyright thingy was probably just a stock Wikipedia warning, at least I don't see anything problematic with your edit in that regard. As for adding, personally, I could only add a list of a dozen or so games which had PPSh in them, but I'm just not sure if that would be of much interest. Anyway, if the topic is interesting for you, be bold and go ahead. ;) I've created a stub at PPSh in popular culture for that. -- int19h 06:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

BTW, in terms of what whats wrong with the wording of your edit, the problem was mainly that you did not reference the episodes in question (for Futurama, the list is here, for example). -- int19h 06:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

As Int19h said, a popular culture reference for this article really just isn't needed. If it's for, say, the PPK and its relevance to James Bond, or for the C96 and its presence in Chinese art and Cold War/World War films, then yes, I think that may be considered relevant as it contributes heavily to the weapon's success or fame. This is not such a case. MVMosin 00:35, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Possible reference

Here's a scan of an oldish article in The Small Arms Review. Dunno if it's helpful: [2]. --Gwern (contribs) 01:33 14 February 2007 (GMT)

Clearing up possible confusion

I just edited the article. In a couple of places in the article, it says that the cartridge used is the "7.62 mm Red Army round." I changed this because calling it a "Red Army round" is a colloquialism at best. I instead listed the proper calibric measure, which is an internal link to the article on the cartridge itself. The confusion that I wanted to clear up is simply that because 7.63 is not as well known as 7.62, and because the cartridge is officially known as 7.62, someone might be inclined to think this was a typo. It was not a typo. The 7.63 x 25 mm is actually 7.63 in measurement, but the name of the cartridge is 7.62 mm. For this reason, I left the "cartridge" name as it is, but added the calibric measure as 7.62. MVMosin 00:35, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Tommy gun

Any relation ? I thought it was. — maxrspct ping me 21:33, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes the PPSh is called "Tommy gun" because the drum magazine make them look similar, but other than that I don't think there's any relation.--Sus scrofa 22:29, 21 July 2007 (UTC)