Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Data Visualization

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Prior discussion of this project?

Please see the thread I've started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council#Wikipedia:WikiProject Data Visualization concerning the apparent lack of a formal proposal, or indeed any obvious prior discussion of this project at all, before its creation. AndyTheGrump (talk) 10:47, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Pattern of data visualizations by country

This is a big question, but I have been wondering what standard data visualizations apply to Wikipedia articles of many, most, or all countries.

Is there a popular data visualization which would be a welcome addition to any Wikipedia article on a country? Bluerasberry (talk) 21:36, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In order to visualise data, you need the data first. And beyond some very basic demographic data (if even that is available), I doubt you'd find anything standard worth visualising. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:53, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@AndyTheGrump: At Wikidata there already are WikiProjects for countries. They all are trying to coordinate queries for national data in all kinds of fields. I do not think there is a strong connection between the data curation at Wikidata and data visualization here in Wikipedia. There must be something there. Economics? Tourism? Energy use? Education? Trade? Pop culture?

Steve Balmer former CEO of Microsoft has this project USAFacts where he presents all sorts of data visualizations at the national level for the United States. https://usafacts.org/ I am not sure where Wikidata and Wikipedia align for such things but if we found just one visualization model which was generally interesting, then we could mass post that in many articles in many languages. Bluerasberry (talk) 17:03, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Wikidata, as I'm sure you are aware, it isn't WP:RS. As for mass-posting, that would appear to be grossly inappropriate, given that this is a draft English-language Wikiproject, with no mandate whatsoever to add content elsewhere.

While I can see real merit in this draft proposal, I have some reservations about its implementation: not least of which is its potential to encourage 'looking for data to visualise', rather than serving the interests of good article creation and maintenance as a whole. In my opinion, rather than looking for new data to 'visualise', the project should instead be looking at individual articles, and asking whether data already present (appropriate, due, reliably sourced data, that is) can usefully be presented visually. If, as a result of this, we conclude that such visualisations could be used more generally, we can then consider doing so. But we need to start from the premise that it is the data that matters, and that good 'visualisation' comes later, where is appropriate. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:30, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@AndyTheGrump: Right, Wikidata does not fit WP:RS, but also, Wikipedia infoboxes also typically do not meet RS, and we have not reconciled that over the past ~25 years. Infoboxes for biographies contain birthdays, locations, marriages and other key data which often does not pass RS, and for cities everyone expects population, geography, GDP, and other primary source content which also fails RS. I think the way to address this is to face it directly, state the obvious that there are some expected data values that either we must include or recognize as conspicuously absent, and that we often fill our boxes with content from databases or primary sources.

We have consensus based on practice and precedent that non-RS data sources go in infoboxes, and going further, it is easy to imagine equivalents of infoboxes for subarticles or subsections. Check the right side of the article Economy of the United States - the infobox is full of primary content, and I count more than 20 data visualizations which themselves are mostly arbitrary, mostly primary source content. You might react that us editors organizing mass-posting is inappropriate, but if you are against standardization, then the default alternative is keeping content like this where random arbitrarily chosen graphics are on the side with no planning and no deliberation. We have been doing wiki long enough that now it is evident that we do not have, and will never have, the editorial labor pool to manually deliberate meaningful up-to-date data tables and visualizations custom for every article where they are needed. Also, I feel it is an inarguable fact that the quality of non-RS compliant datasets is going up quickly. While I am afraid that data can be co-opted for propaganda and by ill-will actors, Wikipedia could legitimately be a place to do some quality control and standardization to say which data sets are reliable, and which data visualizations ought to be standard as general reference information.

I get your intent when you say "it is the data that matters and visualization comes later", but as a matter of practicality, I think that we might be able to identify the data which matters by identifying which visualizations are super popular, noncontroversial, and widely discussed. I am not sure where this begins - maybe Our World in Data? maybe USAFacts? Maybe what people are doing on Wikidata? Maybe by looking at what visualizations are popular in Wikipedia articles.

I do not want to be transgressive in lowering Wikipedia's quality standards, but I do think it might be timely to admit that we already lack sourcing for some key data that we already include. Evaluating certain kinds of data visualizations as "standard" could help us streamline our fact-checking process for some data sources for visualizations. I would like your support in finding some way to mint some kind of visualization at scale from some primary data source, which we regard as trusted despite failing RS. Bluerasberry (talk) 16:53, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have absolutely no idea where you got the bizarre idea that data in infoboxes doesn't need to comply with WP:RS, but it is complete and utter nonsense. I suggest that rather than wasting your time posting TLDR misinformation, you take the time to familiarise yourself with core policy. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:14, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

User talk:Bluerasberry we have these graphs for thousands of topics, all supported by excellent references. mdwiki:Template:Owidslider/outdoor_air_pollution#AllCountries. They form part of the interactive graphs here MDWiki:WikiProjectMed:OWID, which we are working on improving such that they use less bandwidth. The raw data for these can also be stored on Commons such as here. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:38, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimania

Wondering if other folks involved with this effort will be at Wikimania? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:39, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Moving pages

Is it worth moving the (unfinished page) at Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Resources/Charts to a subpage of this WikiProject and finishing it off? I am thinking it can have the interactive charts in it when they are enabled. – Isochrone (talk) 07:35, 8 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's a good idea. Currently, that page is at a niche place where nearly nobody will find it. Furthermore, I think things related to the upcoming Charts extension are relevant to this WikiProject so it would be best to have a subpage about it here. Prototyperspective (talk) 18:13, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

+1 :) – SJ + 22:40, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Updated DV maps can have very different color progressions

Most OWID maps only get newer and more data when getting updated but some also get their color progression changed; examples:

This map has a color progression between 0 – 200+ for 2016 while the new version for 2019 has a different color coding, finely dividing between 0 – 50+ but not between 50 – 200+. Is there a specific good reason for that? Which version would be better?
This map (& png version) shows data for 2017 finely dividing between 0 – 5000+ with 8 colors whereas the new version for 2021 has different spans and just 7 colors, causing lots of countries having the same color instead of a finer distinction at 2k 3k 4k and 5–10k. In addition, when hovering on 5–10k+ no country seems to be highlighted so that 5-10k color seems redundant. So currently, it seems like the older map is better isn't it?

Prototyperspective (talk) 18:29, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yah they make a lot of changes on a regular basis. We do not have much / any power over that. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:20, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't implying so. It's more about that one needs to be cautious when updating charts because if they didn't just add more data, the prior image may be better despite of older data. Moreover, maybe there is a way to modify such charts, especially since the grapher tool is open source (it could also be just tinkering around with the SVG or editing the image in an image editor). Lastly, emailing OWID to ask about it would also be an option, maybe it wasn't intentional (e.g. I can't see why there is this redundant 5-10k color in the map and maybe they could consider adding the info 'no country had above 5k' if that's why it's there).

This thread is also there as an example or starter for things we could discuss here: which version of a data graphic is better and whether it should be updated or only updated if the coding/color-scheme/legend is the same or better. Prototyperspective (talk) 22:29, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Generally the newer data would be better in my opinion despite a few aspects that are less good. Running our own version of their grapher was something I asked about a few years back with no one at the WMF having the bandwidth. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:45, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A way to make OWID charts only show the segments with data points?

Our World in Data uses the open source owid-grapher tool. Is there a way to make charts only show those parts of the y axis that have data points? See the example on the right: that the y-axis starts at 0 years instead of e.g. 40 years makes it difficult to distinguish the lines, trace any given line, and to see differences. Prototyperspective (talk) 19:24, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

They offer logorithmic https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?yScale=log&time=1940..latest&country=OWID_WRL~OWID_EUR~PRT~ESP~MAR Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but that skews the scales and thereby does make the data graphic somewhat misleading (even if it says it's logarithmic). The y axis should stay the same. Currently, the only option seems to be manually editing the graphic in an image editor. But only is that a hassle, it also doesn't zoom in to make the chart larger (same height but less y-axis) so as to make the line development and their differences clearer. Prototyperspective (talk) 22:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agree the current situation is not ideal. We could add this to the list of things we will eventually fix. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:42, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

GraphBot

Hi folks,

I've created a bot that is undergoing approval called GraphBot, it is a migrator that turns the old graphs that use Template:Graph:Chart into charts. I thought that you might find this useful.

Cheers, GalStar (talk) 04:55, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/GraphBot. Looks like it focuses on converting {{PortGraph}}. –Novem Linguae (talk) 13:54, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If I understood correctly, the bot can convert most of current graphs and is invoked by changing {{Graph:Chart}} to {{PortGraph}} after some delay. Please correct me if I'm wrong. One of the issues with it that I just noticed is that some articles like Llynfi power station just use <graph>...</graph> and the docs pages don't explain how to convert these.

I added a link to the bot as a see also in the to dos. Prototyperspective (talk) 15:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Currently there is no support for <graph/> tags, but the reason for renaming Graph:Chart to PortGraph is to ensure that an user double checks that all attributes are supported by the chart extension (most importantly, whether they need control over height of the Graph, as the chart extension does not offer any control over that, but also for things like color scheme). GalStar (talk) 21:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How to copy the terminology text of Our World in Data graphics?

Lots of visuals by Our World in Data have a large terminology text at the bottom when downloading them with the default option of "Include terminology definitions at bottom of chart" enabled. However, that often makes the charts too small and hard to see – text like that could instead be added to the file description and/or as a {{efn}} note in the file caption.

I suppose one could get the text by either typing it down manually or by opening the SVG file in a text editor – is there an easier way to get the terminology text to add it to the file description?

Here is an example datagraphic with terminology and new version of the file without it. When clicking on "Learn more about this data" at the source I can't find the terminology text. Prototyperspective (talk) 11:58, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes agree definitely an issue. We have been putting it inside a popup within the visualization tool. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:52, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Stray project page

@Prototyperspective: What is this page for, that you recently created: Wikipedia:WikiProject Data Visualization request? —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 18:16, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See the requests form at the bottom of this page (it is for requesting datagraphics). Prototyperspective (talk) 20:35, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for responding, it should either be a subpage of this WikiProject, or be a separate template, not a standalone Project page. I am moving this to be a subpage of this project, now at Wikipedia:WikiProject Data Visualization/Requested datagraphics/Preload. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 21:29, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Need assistance setting up?

Do you guys need any assistance setting up banners, categories, project entries, etc.? I have noticed that this WikiProject lacks all these basic stuffs, and honestly, it has been quite dormant despite being brand new. I can help if you wish because I have done WikiProject renames and mergers in the past. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 08:24, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you'd like to get involved, please go ahead. I don't see why these would be basics stuffs and how they would be useful here (as for the project entries, these are all on this page and many things are linked from there). Also given all the discussions above and recent developments (& edits), I don't know why you describe it as quite dormant. More participants and activity is very welcome. Prototyperspective (talk) 13:34, 27 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Last subject-specific talk section was opened on 25 May, and Requested datagraphics page lies empty. For a new WikiProject, that's not very encouraging. But, hopefully, if the set up is completed, there will be more activity here. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 15:34, 27 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@CX Zoom: I don't think this is the kind of wikiproject that will make much (if any) use of the banner tagging and assessment system, since it's focused on improving a certain type of content (graphs) across all pages rather than generally improving articles on a particular topic. More like WP:URA than WP:MILHIST, in other words. Also the start of the wikiproject was a bit unusual in that it was in anticipation of an (then) upcoming new tool which has only recently become available. So now we are able to start work. – Joe (talk) 10:12, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Some sort of drive to eliminate broken graphs

Something like Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Backlog elimination drives might get more people interested. Perhaps we could also have barnstars/awards at the end of drives. GalStar (talk) (contribs) 18:25, 2 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a good idea! However, there are also issues with the new extension and I don't know to which fraction of graphs this is relevant – see e.g. mw:Extension talk:Chart#Wishlist and the section right above it. People can use the script or the bot for converting graphs that are linked under 'Things to do' on this project page. Prototyperspective (talk) 22:36, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at Talk:Keel-billed toucan § Range map

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Keel-billed toucan § Range map, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. The discussion concerns the suitability of range maps based on eBird observation data, as well as the copyright status of maps traced from NC-only maps published by reliable sources such as Birds of the World and IUCN Red List. Pineapple Storage (talk) 21:58, 23 July 2025 (UTC) Pineapple Storage (talk) 21:58, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Presentation at Wikimania

Will be presenting on OWID visualization within Mediawiki at Wikimania.

It is possible to join online.[1] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:56, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for the link, the video recording is very insightful.

for everyone's benefit, i summarize here what i have found within wikimedia foundation (WF) and Our World In Data (owid)

regarding a chart library for WF: the requirements and records of decisions based on new learnings from 2024 through aug 2025 can be found here

In a nutshell, the decision is to use apache echarts, over solutions such as other js libraries (vega-lite for instance) or owid grapher. This decision is based on scalability, security, ease of maintenance, necessity of open source project with large support for community, and constraints around contributor help (balance between innovation and consistency / security). The decision leaves the door open to future migrations to owid-grapher or other js libraries.

on the owid side, the code is available here

documentation states that they are open to help but will focus on their requirements first. owid focuses on development data which may be a limited use case for wikipedia.

I am looking at ways to contribute to this joint project since it is needed (and quite complex ), but it does not seem straightforward: here is an example of someone trying to help owid but not being able to yet.

@Doc James is there public information about the joint project between WF and owid grapher or is it an internal conversation? Booksmurf (talk) 09:04, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot a key requirements which is a nice to have for owid: internationalization of charts / multi languages support Booksmurf (talk) 09:20, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We have built a frame work that allows multilingual graphs. You can see it in action on Basque.[https://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Txokoa?owid_list=Template%3Aowidslider%2FParkinsons%20deaths%23gallery&owid_language=eu]

We are still working on address concerns raised by EN WP before pitching the all Commons images solution to the EN community again. Booksmurf yes we are looking for more people to help with the technical side of things. Not sure what sort of skills you have? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:54, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The framework is very neat! There is a little error: when you switch to asia, the language switches to english for the graph title (only) Booksmurf (talk) 16:52, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yah, still more stuff to fix... Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:27, 7 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a userbox for the Commons too?

Since this is about data visualization. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:54, 11 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This user participates in
WikiProject Data Visualization.

Template:User WikiProject Data Visualization

Can someone who knows what they are doing copy the above to the Commons?

Pinging the template editors: Isochrone, Jonesey95, Prototyperspective

See: commons:Category:Userbox templates.

--Timeshifter (talk) 16:17, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

OWID

Started a request to activate it on EN WP Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Activating_an_interactive_OWID_experience_(Part_4) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:49, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay we are launched in EN WP as opt in. Instructions are here. Hopefully we can get it default soom. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:24, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We are fully launched now in EN WP. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:06, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A bug

On EN WP it loads fine when I am in incognito mode. But when I am logged in, the first time I open it stalls on the loading screen, but with a refresh it then loads. Not sure if others are experiencing this as it might be an interactive with another gadget or something. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:09, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James: Same problem in Firefox, Windows 10 Pro PC whether I am logged in or not. Solved by reloading it.

The blue bar at the bottom is a little too tall. It encroaches on the timeline slider.

--Timeshifter (talk) 00:32, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Really, even in incognito mode? UK WP described a similar problem but managed to fix it. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:39, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Tested again, and waited a few minutes. Says "Loading" and stays at 0%. --Timeshifter (talk) 01:56, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So this is in firefox, incognito, logged out? And of the OWID graphic on this page? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:00, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It works for me in Firefox/macOS in an incognito window. That suggests that there is some gadget/user script conflicting with it. It doesn't work at all in mw:safemode (this is expected, since safemode turns off the script for the interactive map along with all the other maps), so it might be necessary to use mw:Help:Locating broken scripts#Other ways to identify broken scripts.

If you have a plain-vanilla testing account (no special scripts or settings), then you might see whether it works in that account. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:58, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks yes same for me. On UK WP they had the same issue with it interacting with some other gadget. It worked with an account with nothing installed. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:40, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To verify WAID, can I confirm that it does not work for you (ie it does not initially load) when you are using your main account logged in? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:01, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Doc James. This is weird. I was using the OWID-slider on the project page. Which has the exact same code as here on the talk page. I checked again, and tested again. Does not work whether logged in or not. In Firefox on Windows 10 Pro PC.

But the talk page version here works whether logged in or not. In Firefox on Windows 10 Pro. --Timeshifter (talk) 03:07, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Strange as it reacts differently for me. On firefox it does not load when I am logged into my main account, it works when I am logged out, and it works when I am logged into a new account. So it is something we have turned on on our accounts. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:41, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Update

I think we found the bug and have rolled out the fix. User:Timeshifter is it working for you now? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:34, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is working on both pages whether logged in or not.

Blue bar with "Return to article" needs to be halved in height. It covers part of the timeline slider. If I increase the font size it will cover "Media credits".

Also, spaces, not dashes, should be used in file names to separate words. And longer, clearer file names are better for search engines. I have file moving rights, and so I changed

File:Meat-supply-per-person,World,2022.svg to

File:World map of average annual total meat supply in kilograms per person by country.svg

Year should not be added to filenames for images that will be updated. Maybe I should return the year since it is part of a series. I see the series when looking at the template wikitext source code:

commons:Template:OWID/meat-supply-per-person

Template still works after changing the filename.

If you don't already have file mover rights, you can ask an admin.

If the images are being mass uploaded from OWID, then we are stuck with the compressed filenames at first. At least for the internal images.

But the filename in the slider template and in the "Media credits" might be changed.

It would be nice if the mass uploader automatically changed the dashes to spaces in the filenames. And add a space after every comma.

--Timeshifter (talk) 19:43, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Can you send me a picture of the formating your seeing? This is within firefox I assume? Formats well for me.

The naming can be changed but realize that these names are applied to hundreds of files and we should keep them insync. We have the following for example:

File:Meat-supply-per-person,World,2020.svg

If the files are moved we need to keep redirects for the tool to function. If redirects are lost the whole thing will break. But when we do a mass reupload everything will get super confusing, so please do not do manual renames for now.

We can change the upload tool to switch _ to space, and add a space after a comma Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:45, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay was able to recreate the issue, it just occurs on firefox when the screen is much wider than it is tall. Does not occur on Chrome. Will add it to the list of fixes needed.[2] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:52, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It would be nice if we ended up with this:

File:Meat supply per person, World, 2020.svg

instead of this:

File:Meat-supply-per-person,World,2022.svg

The image lists would still be in sync.

And it would make the individual images accessible to more people. Search engines outside Wikipedia also use Commons images in their image search results.

Formatting? Of the blue bar? To me it just looks like a 2-line-tall blue bar filled with a 1-line phrase "Return to article". I am suggesting narrowing it to a 1-line-tall blue bar.

--Timeshifter (talk) 20:07, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

With respect to the file naming, sure we can do that on upload going forwards.

With respect to the blue bar, it all depends on the screen sizes and the browser. More involved than just making in narrower, but we will work on it as well. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:10, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It might be because there is padding based on em units in the div or table housing the blue bar or banner. If so, I suggest changing the padding units to pixels.

And use only the minimum number of pixels necessary to separate the phrase "Return to article" from the top and bottom edges of the blue bar, and still be legible.

Someone changed the file name back. That is fine. I see now that people can find the OWID sliders via the template name in the {{owidslider}} template wikitext in the above OWID slider:

|list    = Template:OWID/meat-supply-per-person#gallery

I see the templates listed here:

The list names are the same as the template names except the dashes have been converted to spaces.

The template names need the dashes converted to spaces. The list may have lapses in maintenance, but the template category will be up to date. And if the template names have spaces, then they will be more easily found via search engines on and off Wikipedias. And thus more used. They will soon be copied to pages off Wikipedia too since they are free graphics like everything else on the Commons. --Timeshifter (talk) 07:32, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Doc James. I removed the spaces from the template name. The redirect works on the Commons and commons:Template:OWID/meat-supply-per-person ends up at commons:Template:OWID/meat supply per person.

But after that the slider didn't load here on the talk page or the project page. To get it to work I had to change the wikitext here to:

|list    = Template:OWID/meat supply per person#gallery

So the Commons template names need to be changed now before they get too widely used:

commons:Category:Pages using gadget owidslider

I don't think they have been used much yet.

commons:Template:OWID/meat supply per person is categorized there now.

This search counts 40 transclusions of {{owidslider}} on all Wikipedias?:

https://templatecount.toolforge.org/index.php?lang=commons&namespace=10&name=owidslider#bottom

"What links here" lists 12 transclusions of it on English Wikipedia.

Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Owidslider

I can remove spaces from the template names, and in the transclusions. I will start now unless there is an objection. We need to act fast.

I noticed you created a couple of the templates with spaces in the filenames.

Global search may help find the transclusions in non-English Wikipedias:

https://global-search.toolforge.org

https://github.com/wikimedia/tools-global-search - "A tool to do keyword and source regex searches across all Wikimedia Foundation wikis."

I don't know how to use it though. Need to be able to search for {{owidslider or Template:Owid/ since those are parts of {{owidslider}} in the wikitext for an OWID slider graphic.

--Timeshifter (talk) 09:45, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sure happy to have the template names with spaces. All the places these are used live can be found here MDWiki:WikiProjectMed:OWID#Usage_(Wd) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:40, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Started changing template names. Could use some help from any others willing to do it. --Timeshifter (talk) 14:41, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Doc James and all. All the template names in this category have had spaces substituted for dashes:

Commons:Category:Pages using gadget owidslider

A lot of work. Pages that used any of the templates have been updated too, hopefully. Is there a page that explains step by step how to upload everything necessary? And all steps to create a template? --Timeshifter (talk) 07:52, 4 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Tool does all the work. Testing it again this morning. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:10, 4 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Upload tool updates. We have switched "_" for space. We still need a space added after the ",". See here for current upload.[3] Improved category handling still being built. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:26, 4 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay space after "," now added. And category "Uploaded by OWID importer tool" now added by default.[4] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:29, 4 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Major progress!

Of course there are a few more bugs. I see the bug list you linked to elsewhere:

MDWiki:WPM:OWID#Bugs

--Timeshifter (talk) 02:54, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How do I upload and create an OWID slider template?

Doc James. This is the one I want:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-healthcare-expenditure-per-capita

I want it in place of the non-interactive OWID map at the top of this article:

List of countries by total health expenditure per capita

--Timeshifter (talk) 09:53, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sure uploading now. But still with the old formating. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:37, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay uploaded, but it does not work how it should.[5] I want the image shown via "file=" not to load when clicked but instead all data should come from "list=". Need to fix this. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:26, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James: I moved it below for further work:

Annual healthcare expenditure per capita

--Timeshifter (talk) 06:21, 4 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Further uploads will be paused until this is fixed... Seems the issue is with the upload tool. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:12, 4 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James: I finally figured out how to get a latest-year-only table for the 2023 map. See:

User:Timeshifter/Sandbox299.

And see the WHO section here, and its reference:

List of countries by total health expenditure per capita

OWID is very confusing as to how to get only the latest year. Reference has the only way I have found so far. Other methods get multiple years per country.

--Timeshifter (talk) 09:22, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Still waiting on Hassan to fix the issues...

Have listed here the functional and the broken graphs. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:37, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James: Thanks for the link. I looked at a few of the broken ones. At least the opening map. They may have a similar problem. The healthcare cost interactive map above is showing only the available 2023 data, I believe.

I matched the 2023 countries listed in the table here:

User:Timeshifter/Sandbox299

Whereas the 2023 map uploaded by itself has 2023 data where available, and 2022 data for the rest of the countries, I believe:

--Timeshifter (talk) 12:11, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hoping to have a fix by Friday Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:10, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Good news, upload issue fixed.

Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:51, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You will notice that it is set to 2022 as that is the year with full data. The 2023 graph you post above shows mostly data from 2022 and thus is a misleading. When you open the interactive graph you can move to 2023 and it shows the countries were 2023 data IS available. IMO this is better / more honest. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's good. Being that this is an article and topic I have been interested in for a long time, there are a few things I would really like to see:

A link back to the OWID source. Number one reason being that the source provides more options, and I like those options:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-healthcare-expenditure-per-capita

Number 2: Everything must be verified in a Wikipedia article. WP:Verify. I don't want to count on individual editors to do that. Indirect ways back to the source don't count. Like the media credit link back to an individual image, and then a link from there on the Commons back to the OWID page. Technically all images on Wikipedia have to be referenced. Though many images in articles use the roundabout way, article editors can delete images without direct references if they so choose.

It would be nice if the bot provided such a reference. Perhaps a "Source (off-wiki)" link next to "Media credits".

--Timeshifter (talk) 19:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You could provide it as a reference in the caption. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:39, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James: Most people aren't going to do it. It's not intuitive to find the reference since it is not like images where one just clicks the image and is taken to the Commons where there is a link to the source.

One has to click on the map, and then click "Media credits" to be sent to a single image page. It is not intuitive that the source for a single image is the source for the interactive map. And it is more steps. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:49, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Implications of "Grokipedia" in Terms of Scale

The upcoming xAI project "Grokipedia" is direct competition to the integrity of the Foundation's core objectives. I believe that it warrants a discussion within the project about the need for the Data Visualization widget to increase in scale. We may need to consider a full, in-house, AI Model that is proprietary to the foundation and tailored specifically towards core objectives. -- Sleyece (talk) 23:48, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Given the mathematically-proven inevitability of 'hallucinations' within LLMs, [6] I can't see how using any 'AI model' based on such technology could possibly be compatible with 'the integrity of the Foundation's core objectives'.And nor can I see what exactly this AI is supposed to do for data visualisation anyway. As for 'Grokipedia' it is, as of now, hypothetical, and could very well turn out to be yet another of Musk's proposals that never sees the light of day. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:11, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You're literally named "AndyTheGrump"; forgive me for not seeing this as anything but you being a grump. -- Sleyece (talk) 01:39, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is that really the only response you have? Pathetic... AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:42, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't decided what I'll do yet. I just wanted to get the ball rolling. -- Sleyece (talk) 02:18, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'd start by describing what this particular 'ball' is supposed to be doing in regards to data visualisation on Wikipedia, and why you think it is necessary. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:41, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You don't seem to understand the difference between AI hallucinations and emergent behaviors. So, I don't think explaining a system to you is going to go anywhere productive. I'll just post demo in the gadget space on OWID. Maybe show is better that tell with this type of thing. Also, I just said we need to be aware of the Grokipedia project that is pending. I'm getting a lot of hostility for no reason. -- Sleyece (talk) 18:11, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In as much as I'm hostile to the use of AI (more specifically LLMs) to generate content for Wikipedia, my views seem to be very much aligned with those of the rest of the community, which is currently faced with a spate of ChatBot-generated garbage. And as far as I'm aware, Musk hasn't said anything regarding data visualisation specifically in regard to his hypothetical project, which makes me wonder whether it is even relevant. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:02, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't say anything about having an LLM write articles. You're clearly bringing your hang ups with AI in total to a thing that was very limited in scope. I was suggesting an AI tool to check for data visualization errors and improvements in a similar way to how bots have preserved the integrity of Wikipedia for years. I understand the frustration of large edits being a copy/paste from ChatGPT or whatever, but that's not my angle. I wasn't trying to start a generalized debate on LLMs. -- Sleyece (talk) 02:59, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So what was all the waffle about Grokipedia in the first post about then? If you'd given a simple description of what you intended (and left out the gratuitous comments about my username), none of this extended discussion would have been necessary. If AI can reliably be made to offer advice on data visualisation content, to be looked at by contributors and then actioned if necessary, that might well be useful, though I'm of the opinion that compared to the endemic issues we have with unsourced data, original research etc in the data such visualisations are all-too-frequently built around, it might not be seen as a priority. AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:21, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, in the first post I just meant to imply a sense of scale. Like if Grokipedia does turn out to be a legitimate competitor in the space, and not just a side project Elon forgets about in a few weeks, we could scale this up w/ increased priority as needed. I agree that this may not be seen as a priority right now, but things can change quickly. -- Sleyece (talk) 13:30, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I too don't really see the ball here. On the subject of AI, i too think we should be very conservative about AI usage within the encyclopedia, but at the same time, i'm seeing a lot of door-to-door encyclopedia salesmen, who haven't realized yet they have lost their jobs to the Internet. With which to say.. the interaction method people are clinging on to here for dear life (a webpage), has already been replaced (conversational/AI). I hate it too, but just looking around tells me all I need to know about where this is heading. If we want to not end up like the encylcopedias of old, we should be doing a lot more experimentation than we have been willing to do. But i dont see this willingness to grow with our audience, so i doubt we will fair any better than Brittanica and Larousse —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:05, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

OWID slider. Problem with height of blue bar at bottom

Doc James and all. I mentioned this higher up. Blue bar with "Return to article". See screenshots of bottom of the slider map:

Normal text size for me:

110% text size:

120% text size:

You can see how it encroaches on the year slider. And then at 110% covers the slider. At 120% it covers most of "Media credits". --Timeshifter (talk) 00:21, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think you said you were using firefox correct? And are you on Vector (2022)? This is on the list of stuff to fix as is the poor formating of dark screen.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:23, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James: Yes. Firefox with Vector 2022 on Windows 10 Pro PC on a 43 inch 4K monitor.

Also, the white box at the top is unnecessary if the only choice is "World".

Removing it when it is not needed would get rid of the scrollbar.

Put it on the left or right when it is needed, and there are choices. It can wrap on narrow screens.

--Timeshifter (talk) 00:29, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There are always multiple choices for regions of the world. But yes agree it needs improvement in formating. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:35, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James: I only see "World" listed in dark mode in the drop down menu. In light mode I now see the regions in the menu too.

For wrapping code see:

Help:Advanced table features#Side by side tables and the following sections that talk about wrapping tables, images, etc. For example:

Could eliminate the blue bar and put an X button to the top right or top left next the image. That and moving the top regional/world menu to the side would allow room for a bigger map without scrolling. --Timeshifter (talk) 01:10, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes we need to fix formatting in dark mode. Agree a X button top right makes sense on desk top rather than the bottom which we will likely keep in mobile. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:48, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James: Could put X buttons adjacent to the map on both the top right and top left. Then people couldn't miss it on desktop. In case they have scrolled left or right to a menu or other added info. --Timeshifter (talk) 13:10, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think we have the issue fixed on MDWiki... will ask for refresh on EN WP. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:25, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

https://mdwiki.org/wiki/WikiProjectMed:OWID

@Doc James: The overlap problem is gone. Thanks to all involved.

Maybe point the programmer to these threads. There are some ideas of interest. Like the wrapping info and help links.

I would like to see bar height down to one line. Or eliminated, and replaced with X's on each side adjacent to the map. Every bit of increased space allows the map to expand. I notice that the map expands when allowed. For example, when I go full-screen. Maps are almost always better the larger they are. --Timeshifter (talk) 03:00, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by "Like the wrapping info and help links."? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:05, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For wrapping code see: Help:Advanced table features#Side by side tables and the following sections that talk about wrapping tables, images, etc. For example:

Moving the top regional/world menu to the side would allow room for a bigger map. The code allows the menu to go above the map on narrower screens. --Timeshifter (talk) 03:36, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You mean you want multiple graphs to work well side by side?

Yah have though about moving the region dropdown on wider screens and will likely do this eventually. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:58, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this is what I want: "moving the region dropdown on wider screens".

We already have the ability for side-by-side interactive maps. See below, and look at the wikitext. Narrow your screen to see them wrap and stack. I would think the regional menu could similarly be initially to the side. And similar CSS used to make it wrap and stack on narrower screens.

--Timeshifter (talk) 15:46, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hum it is not aligning properly here [7] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:25, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed it there. I experimented here. I noticed that if the image alignment is different between the 2 file= image links, then there are alignment problems either before or after wrap and stack.

I prefer to set both to "none" in case the interactive maps end up not being together later. With "none" the interactive map does not float right or left before activation.

--Timeshifter (talk) 18:37, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

SVG crop of OWID slider maps to move bottom text to "i" button

We now have a tool that allows us to crop SVGs.[8] As such am trimming the displayed images to remove the difficult to read small text at the bottom.[9] People can find it under the i when opened or on Commons. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:21, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James: You may know this already. The "i" button text is near-unreadable in dark mode. --Timeshifter (talk) 02:22, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes exactly, we need to adjust it for dark mode. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:56, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James: - Look at my user page in the Gaza section to see the only way I could figure out how to keep text with specific background colors to work in light and dark mode. I have limited understanding of CSS. So there may be better ways. I used this in the CSS: !important;

https://www.google.com/search?q=this+in+the+CSS%3A+%21important%3B

It prevents colors from being changed when going from light to dark mode, and vice versa. See also:

Help:Advanced table features#Colors in tables and the following sections.

--Timeshifter (talk) 19:31, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Have created a test environment here MDWiki:Template:Owidslider(test) if you want to see if you can solve these issues. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:40, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Are you able to edit this [10]? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:41, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the links to Template:Owidslider(test) and MediaWiki:Gadget-owidslider(test).css:

I have only limited understanding of CSS. Mostly for inline use. Jroberson108 may be able to help, if interested. And of course, Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) and WP:Graphics lab, can help.

Jroberson108 and others. This is now active on Wikipedia. See:

Template:Owidslider

If you look at all the OWID slider threads on this page you will see one common problem of text not appearing correctly, or at all, in dark mode. For example, the "i" button text, and the "select region" menu above the map.

Another problem is the bottom blue bar (with "Return to article") being too tall. See relevant thread above.

Also discussed: the "select region" menu would probably be better on the right or left, so that there is room for a larger map on desktop monitors. The top menu could wrap to the top in narrower screens. See relevant threads above. -- --Timeshifter (talk) 01:23, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And we have a programmer slowly working on fixing these things. But yes it takes time.

If there are others who are wanting and able to help we would love to have them join. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:06, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay User:Bawolff has done some work on dark mode. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:08, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any place we can see it? --Timeshifter (talk) 01:12, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

MDWiki.org Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:07, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

~~But I don't see options for light and dark mode.~~ So I installed this Firefox addon to toggle between light and dark modes. But different from Wikipedia's light and dark mode.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/darkreader

I can read the text now in dark mode. But I am not sure this will work on Wikipedia. Is there a test on Wikipedia? --Timeshifter (talk) 14:11, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Go here MDWiki:WikiProjectMed:OWID, make sure you are using Vector (2022) under preferences, than play the interactive graph, and for me it now works fine on Chrome and Firefox. We have not rolled these changes out to EN WP yet as waiting to finish fixing the blue bar issue before asking for an update here. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:26, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. I see the light and dark mode selector at the bottom of the right sidebar. I struck out my incorrect observation about that above.

I am using Firefox browser with Vector 2022 skin. I can now see the regional menu text, and the info text, in both light and dark mode. I am looking here:

https://mdwiki.org/wiki/WikiProjectMed:OWID

There should be a way to set up test cases on Wikipedia too to be double sure, and to look for weird interactions and problems.

Many Wikipedia templates have test cases and sandboxes.

--Timeshifter (talk) 15:00, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The code gets rolled out to multiple wikis so nice doing testing on mdwiki where i am an interface admin. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:52, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]