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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by PIrish (talk | contribs) at 21:32, 14 May 2007 (minesweeper: add my messages). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
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Indochinese green magpie
The Indochinese green magpie (Cissa hypoleuca) is a small colorful bird native to the forests of China and southern Asia, through to Vietnam. It is nonmigratory and is found at altitudes up to 1,500 metres (4,900 feet), preferring moist forests and tree canopies within the tropical and subtropical regions, where its plumage provides camouflage. The Indochinese green magpie is approximately 35 centimetres (14 inches) in length, with a green upper body and an underbelly either yellow or green in colour. It features a black band that goes from its bill over the crimson eyes to the back of their head. It is a songbird, with vocalisations including noisy chattering, rasping notes, screeches, and a ringing whistle. This Indochinese green magpie of the subspecies C. h. hypoleuca was photographed in Đà Lạt, Vietnam.Photograph credit: JJ Harrison

minesweeper

"1. Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article.

Very few of these links bring up anything that isn't already included in the article already. If some of them do, they should be used as references within the actual article and not as sites tagged on to the end."

I found that nearly all of them did include things that aren't in the article aldready. I don't think you looked very hard at them

"3. Links mainly intended to promote a website.

They were almost all personal sites that are linked to from here to solely promote and create traffic to their sites."

Some are personal sites, but I believe most were not linked on wikipedia by the owners: I've linked many myself.

"4. Links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services.

A lot of these links are offering a product, some even require you to buy it after a trial."

Offering a product is not a problem. Any that require you to buy something to use it should be removed, but I think you seem to avoid the word "primarily" in many of these reasons.

"8. Direct links to documents that require external applications (such as Flash or Java) to view the relevant content, unless the article is about such rich media.

Many of these links just go to Flash/Java versions of the game

10. Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace), discussion forums or USENET.

Several of these links go straight to discussion forums and even chat rooms."

Fair enough, so remove them, don't just remove the entire links section.

"11. Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority.

Several are blogs and most are personal webpages of some sort."

I think you're stretching "of some sort" a bit too far here. If it says "x's website" or something like that, fair enough, but just because a webpage is owned by an individual does not make it a personal webpage.

Seriously man, removing the entire links section and just replacing one or two links looks a lot more like vandalism to me than any kind of help- maybe you should have just removed the links that violated the rules you gave. I'm adding a few links that unambiguously do not violate these rules, though I'm sure you'll find a way to construe that they do. SchuBomb 02:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Err...I'm not a man. :O
I kept the links that showed up within the first few hits searching "minesweeper" on Google as these are probably noteworthy in their own right (afterall, they didn't come within the top five hits by being Bob's Minesweeper Site that gets visited by twenty people monthly).
Perhaps deleting all of them was a little rash, however, once I did start going through them on an individual basis, I wasn't finding anything worth noting (that I hadn't already kept). I even considered going through each one and putting it with a point from the policy it was violating because I just wasn't finding any that should be there, but with more than forty links, that got really tiresome really fast.
I don't mind if you add a few that you think don't break policy, but don't add the entire section back in. Most of those did violate WP:EL and, those that I found that weren't in violation of it, I kept or re-added. Please do also keep in mind that the fewer external links, the better. It is a common goal here on Wikipedia to keep these sections extremely small or even non-existent if at all possible. Adding links just for the sake of adding links rather goes against that idea. Always keep in mind that links should be used as sources first. If they can't be used as sources, they probably don't belong in the article at all (unless it is an official site for the topic). Thank you. --pIrish talk, contribs 02:55, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
...though I'm sure you'll find a way to construe that they do. Please remember to assume good faith. I regularly clean up external links in articles that are tagged to do so and I only clean up articles that I have no bias towards or against. This way, I am looking at each link through policy and standards rather than looking at them as which sites I like or prefer to visit. I'm only working to better these articles so they meet Wikipedia standards and may possibly have a chance at becoming good or featured articles some day. They have no way of becoming that if a clean up of a ridiculously long external links section doesn't happen. --pIrish talk, contribs 03:16, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

reverted edit

after you removed the addition i made to both the andy baldwin and the bachelor page, i added the information again WITH a citation from a source that is very often cited and is what i believe to be a credible source. unless you can convince me that the new york post is not a reliable source, i will continue to add the information if it is deleted. thank you for bringing to my attention the lack of a source being cited. jae

I'm still going to remove the edit. While yes, you did add a source the second time, the information still isn't Wikified. Please add a spoiler tag to the section and remove the warning stuff. The statement "three lucky ladies" is POV. Just...make it sound like an encyclopedia article. You wouldn't see stuff like "had a few drinks the other night and spilled the beans" in an encyclopedia. Word it in a formal tone and then re-add the information. Thank you. --pIrish talk, contribs 16:27, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I just read the article you are getting the information from. You cannot, under any circumstance, copy and paste directly from the source like that. This is a copyright infringement and cannot be included. It will be immediately removed if put back in the article like this again. No exceptions. --pIrish talk, contribs 16:34, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Truth

I can't really see what's wrong with my pointing out that the Movie is largely based on ethnic stereotypes, far more than other Kid's Movies. If you can give me a reason why not, I won't revert back the page. SaliereTheFish 22:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Easy! It's not sourced. Therefore, it is entirely original research. Find a reliable, notable source that says exactly what you put and it can stay. Until then...it can't. --pIrish talk, contribs 22:37, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You don't need a source to condone Racism, surely? I mean, wouldn't the cast list or the film itself count as evidence? SaliereTheFish 22:38, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

YOU are making the assumption that it is based on racism, it's a rather grand assumption at that. I don't particularly think it's all that obvious myself. Some of them are a little far fetched as well (the Asian girl? how is that racist..or even stereotypical?) Unless others have published something that says it is, it can't stay. Sorry, but that's how the policy on original research works. --pIrish talk, contribs 22:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But...it's not an assumption! It's right there! The Hero is American! Th Villains & Idiots are either African-American or British! This isn't an opinion, it's solid fact!

Oh, and the Asian thing: The fact that she gets very little lines, as well as not getting 'partnered' with a male character as do almosta ll the other female leads int he film, contribute to the stereotype of Asian people being Second-Class citizens, as parodied in Goodness Gracious Me! SaliereTheFish 22:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not solid fact, not by any stretch of the imagination. Just because something may be obvious to you, doesn't make it fact. It's an assumption that you have come to the conclusion about after having seen the movie. You. Not me. Not everyone else. You. You decided it was obvious, so you decided it was fact. An assumption.
This is similar to something my mom said to me a few months ago. She had recently seen Monster House with my nephew and, since the antagonist was fat, she decided the movie was making fun of fat people. There was no solid basis in this idea or even facts to support it, she just decided that it was so because that's what she saw and it was obvious to her, even if it wasn't to anybody else.
The fact remains that what you included was original research and, without a reliable and notable source to back it up, it cannot be included in the article because it cannot be verified. Period. --pIrish talk, contribs 23:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You mentioned above about using the cast list or the film as a source. Neither of these is an acceptable source because neither of them directly addresses anything to do with racism or stereotypes. Unless, in the movie, Ella screams something like "My step sister is a dumb Brit and my friend is a quiet Asian!" you can't make the connection based on who is in the movie and the roles they are playing. You have to find a reliable secondary source that states this direct connection to verify the information. --pIrish talk, contribs 00:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help

Thank you for reverting vandalism on my user page. ... discospinster talk 16:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]