Talk:Sea Org

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On 14 February 2011, Sea Org was linked from Slashdot, a high-traffic website. (Traffic)

All prior and subsequent edits to the article are noted in its revision history.

History is missing

The basic history is missing from this article -- creation of the Sea Project, why Hubbard went to sea in the first place, etc. Grorp (talk) 01:03, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should Commodore be added to Sea Org ranks?

I know that no one has ever held this rank other than L. Ron Hubbard, and it will never be held by anyone again, but should Commodore be added as a rank given the existence of the Commodore's Messenger Organization, and the importance of the Commodore when Hubbard was alive? To me this is different than the ranks of Admiral or Loyal Officer which, officially, were established through a forged Flag Order (whether or not that is true). Commodore WAS an actual rank that was held, unless I am wrong and Hubbard's title was not technically one within the Sea Org. JapanOfGreenGables (talk) 01:40, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you have a source, then it could be added. My take on it, however, is that Hubbard as "Commodore" was more of a position than a rank—similar to how the top officer of a navy ship is "the Captain", whether or not he holds the rank of captain (see Captain (naval)#Etiquette). In this fashion, I don't think "Commodore" is an actual rank in the Sea Org. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 02:51, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you replied! I almost posted on your talk page to ask your opinion, as it seemed like you had a lot of knowledge on this topic. And so, my stance is to defer to you.

I did do a quick search out of curiosity to see if I could find confirmation, and I did find this copy of the Flag Orders on Sea Org Uniforms that Tony Ortega uploaded: https://www.scribd.com/document/387919889/Sea-Organization-Uniform-Series-Flag-Orders . It looks like it was published in 1986, before the flag order promoting LRH to admiral and the Broekers to Loyal Officer was declared a forgery. Even though it's not up to date, it does list Commodore as a rank with a specific Sea Org uniform (along with Loyal Officer and Admiral) for what that's worth. And it may not be worth anything at all.

Long story short, I think you know better than I and therefore defer to you, unless someone else posts and provides compelling information. You seem to know your stuff, and so I really was hoping you'd see my suggestion and reply. JapanOfGreenGables (talk) 14:04, 8 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

OMFG, signing in to scribd now requires a Captcha and receiving an email with a code. What a pain!

That issue, FO 3891, is signed by "Int Officer's Council", not Hubbard (issued 7 months after he was dead) which fits the sliver-timeframe you mentioned. I haven't seen anything else use the term "loyal officer" as a rank. That was after Hub died and before Miscavige purged the Broekers and any of their loyalists, and took control over the entire organization.

An online search sent me to Going Clear (Wright), chapter 5. It mentions on pages 182-183 that in Hub's final days/hours he wrote FO 3879—"Hubbard also proclaimed Flag Order 3879, "The Sea Org & the Future," in which he promoted himself to Admiral and retired the rank of Commodore. He instituted a new rank, that of Loyal Officer, ... appointed only two person to serve at that level, Pat and Annie Broeker." And on page 193, "In April 1988, Miscavige formally canceled Hubbard’s final directive, Flag Order 3879, that had named the Broekers Loyal Officers. Miscavige declared that Pat Broeker had fabricated the order."

So, I calculate from all this that Admiral was only intended for a "dead Hubbard" and was a short term thing and not an ongoing/contemporary Sea Org rank. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 15:47, 8 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Section on Marriage and Family needs to be updated

This section appears to be out of date, as it implies Sea Org members are still allowed to have children.

Couples with children must leave the Sea Org and return to other staff positions within the church until the child is six years old; thereafter the children are raised communally and allowed to visit their parents in the Sea Org on weekends or about an hour a day. Children of members have themselves joined the Sea Org when they came of age.

This is no longer true. In the early 2000's, the Cadet Org was disbanded.

Also, originally children born into the Sea Org were raised communally from the outset and their parents never left their Sea Org posts (or did not do so for very long). That must have changed at some point, so this section probably needs to be expanded as well as updated. JapanOfGreenGables (talk) 14:37, 8 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. Everything you said. Needs updating. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 15:49, 8 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]