Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CapROS

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was No consensus. Stifle (talk) 00:26, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

CapROS

NN software. Very few google hits that actually correspond to the software, as of the time of this nomination their website returns nothing, its not even significant enough to earn an Alexa rating, and is still under development. Delete --Hetar 07:12, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:SPAM, WP:SOFTWARE, WP:Not a crystal ball and WP:VANITY --TBC^{??? ??? ???} 07:34, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have been in the process of adding a 'Capability systems' category and updating various entries related to capability systems. I created this page as a placeholder for Charlie Landau to edit, and I have emailed Charlie to advise him that he needs to populate it. It is not clear why Hetter believes that the website [1] returns nothing. It certainly responds for me. I did forget to insert the http:// on the initial edit (since fixed). CapROS is an active sourceforge project, and it is currently funded by DARPA.

Hettar may be right that an entry on CapROS is premature. I suggest that Landau should be given a decent interval of time to put more substantial content here before the page is deleted. I'ld also note that when an author is staring a delete notice in the face it tends to be self-fulfilling. Why should they invest effort in improving a Wikipedia entry if the entry is under threat of deletion? If they don't, how can Wikipedia determine whether sufficient content might exist to justify retention?

By all means let us revisit this in a week or so, by which time there will probably be something to react to. In the interim, have the common decency to let Landau edit without a threat notice in his face. shap 07:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article's nomination is not based on its content, but rather on its subject, which will still not meet WP:SPAM, WP:SOFTWARE, WP:Not a crystal ball and WP:VANITY anytime in the near future. --Hetar 08:59, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Let us take these in turn.

WP:SPAM: It would be factually inaccurate to fail to mention that the principal force behind CapROS is a company. The article does not indulge in advocacy or sales. The article does not indulge in any other form of SPAM listed at WP:SPAM.

The argument for WP:SOFTWARE is stronger, primarily because CapROS isn't shipping yet. However, the simple fact that this system is DARPA-funded in the current funding environment is fairly remarkable, and might be construed as a metric of significance for the KeyKOS/EROS/CapROS path of work. To my knowledge, there are only two such operating systems today (the other, FYI, is Coyotos). To the extent that a brief CapROS entry serves as the endpoint of the EROS work, a brief entry is necessary for editorial completeness. For some other topics, this might be a reason to merge the entry into the EROS entry (which might be appropriate at this point). The editorial problem with this is that it does not sufficiently respect due credit. As the EROS principal I would be very uncomfortable with an editorial presentation that would appear to present Landau's work as mine.

Wikipedia is not a crystal ball doesn't apply here. CapROS unquestionably exists. However, this may be a reason not to have a stub entry until CapROS actually releases.

I may not be independent enough to evaluate the WP:VANITY challenge. My rationale for adding the entry was (a) The EROS work was considered well-motivated by a broad number of people, (b) The current EROS development path is proceeding with CapROS, so if the work is worth mentioning CapROS needs to be dealt with for editorial completeness. (c) The desire to avoid proliferation of articles is overridden in this case by the importance of not misrepresenting credit.

However, I note that Hettar does not respond to my primary original point: the article does not yet have content, and until it has had a reasonable chance for content to be added it is impossible for Hettar to form any useful opinion about it, and certainly not about the spam or vanity points. It is clearly not the expectation of Wikipedia that articles arrive full-formed from the mouth of Zeus. Hettar's nomination for deletion is premature.

I also note that Hetar obviously didn't actually look at the CapROS website. Perhaps he typed ".com" rather than ".org". He has not yet troubled to acknowledge his shoddy archival research in this regard.

The question of Alexa ratings is utterly irrelevant. I know Brewster, and I wish him and Alexa the best, but Alexa's criteria are not those of Wikipedia. Same issue for Google, whose primary consideration is cross-linkage, not merit.

Would Hetar find it appropriate if his current high school faculty made a practice of deleting his term papers summarily at the end of their first sentence on the grounds that they were incomplete?

One more time: the article needs a decent, but not excessive, opportunity to be written before it is evaluated for deletion, and this will not happen if the deletion threat is sitting in the article. In the interim, have the common decency to let Landau edit without a threat notice in his face. 68.33.84.43 12:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Rather along the lines of TBC Marcus22 13:30, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Responding further to Hetar's points:

WP:SPAM: There cannot be a sales motivation, because the software is available free.

WP:SOFTWARE: Because CapROS is the continuation of EROS, all the peer-reviewed publications regarding EROS apply also to CapROS.

Wikipedia is not a crystal ball: The software exists, is published/released (on SourceForge.net), and runs now. I have made a minor edit to the article to correct this point. Like all active software, it is under development to improve it.

WP:VANITY: I don't see this at all, but if you can identify specific information in the article that promotes the notoriety of the author, I would be happy to edit it out. CLandau 17:31, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Borderline weak keep per the arguments of CLandau, if the sources about DARPA funding are added to the article. The reference to WP:VANITY, I think, remains pertinent nonetheless: even if the subject is notable, it is just considered very bad form to write about one's own projects. You would have done better to focus your attention on other things, confident in the strength of Wikipedia's collective mind to eventually identify it as notable and write an article about it. Sandstein 18:09, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, but I'm not the one who added the article. It was added by someone who is not affiliated with the project. I was asked to update it. CLandau 17:34, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. DARPA funding does not make an item "notable" -- on those grounds, the box of pens some general's secretary bought last week on the government's dime is. RGTraynor 19:12, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, Clandau and the anon IP adress made some good points, though I still don't think its notable enough to merit its own article. Perhaps a merge and redirect to EROS? --TBC^{??? ??? ???} 20:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I had much to do with Keykos which is an ancestor of Capros. I argue here that Capros, and therefore the article, is important. I hope that such an argument is not out of line. There are several very active e-mail lists on capability based security. The subject is controversial. There is currently little activity in the area of an OS kernel based on these ideas. This seems unfortunate for without secure platforms there is little hope of a secure infrastructure. I think that Capros is probably the system closest to providing such a secure platform, which I supose is the reason for DARPA support. NormHardy 04:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.