Talk:Windows 3.1/Archive 1

Archive 1

Trumpet

Seems rather inexact ms tcp/ip was an alternative to Trumpet winsock. User:Ericd

Requirements

Other than the 286-386 requirement, what were the other minimum requirements of the 3.x Windows OS? I've been trying to look into that for comparison purposes. User:SvannahLion

1MB RAM, as I recall, and about 5MB of hard drive. That was it. Ran much better with 4MB. Tannin

For Windows 3.1 my manual says Microsoft MS-DOS version 3.1 or later. For 386 enhanced mode, a 386 processor and 640 kilobytes of conventional memory, 1 MB of extended memory and 8 megabytes of disk space.

To run Windows 3.1 standard mode: a 286 processor, 640 kilobytes of conventional memory and 256 kilobytes of extended memory and six megabytes of hard disk space.

I would suggest having at least eight MB of free hard drive space for a swapfile.

Windows for Workgroups: 386sx, MS-DOS 3.3. Three megabytes of RAM. 4 MB is recommended. With networking disabled, you need two megabytes. Ten and a half MB of hard disk space is required.

On my computer, my C:\Windows direcotry is about 13.5 MB in size. My C:\DOS directory is about 6 MB. Hope this helps. 68.100.47.35

WfW: the article is correct, the requirement for a 386 only came with version 3.11 (which only boots in extended mode); version 3.10 of WfW, apart being much less used, was able to boot in standard mode (using DOSX as extender, no VXD); of course, then, the computer cannot act as server, only netword client, since VSERVER was a VxD. So WfW 3.10 could boot on a 286 (seen on a 3MB Toshiba laptop). Also see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q126746/ AntoineL 18:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Bob

• Shouldn't there be something about "Microsoft Bob" in this article? DCEdwards1966 06:59, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)

Yes, a brief mention and a link to Microsoft Bob.

-- UTSRelativity 04:09, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Please Re-write

The seperate mentions of Progman and Winfile should be grouped together and put at the top part of the article. I am not sure but isn't the options bar in Windows 3.0 as well? Missing is the fact that Reversi was not included with WFW 3.11, and also not mentioned is Paintbrush. TCP/IP support was available from Microsoft for WFW 3.11 (I would not call Microsoft third-party here). I am not sure that the article should be split between Windows 3.0 and Windows 3.1x like it is, because we might as well split it up. A mention of this being the first version of Windows with the Windows Registry (though not extensively used; configuration was primarily done with INI files) is appropriate.

-- UTSRelativity 04:38, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Some goofs to fix

Windows 3.1 dropped Reversi, Reversi will run in all later 3.x versions but not in 9x. It's available as a seperate download for post-3.0 Windows versions, as are some wallpaper bitmaps from 3.0 that were dropped. (Oddly, Reversi runs fine in Windows 2000 and XP, I haven't tried it with Me.)

Actually, Reversi was initially supposed to be in Windows 3.1 as well, and it still is in some beta versions of Windows 3.1, especially in build 034. Build 034 also had all the Windows 3.0 bitmaps. These things were probably only dropped from Windows 3.1 during the late beta stage, as build 061d doesn't have them anymore. - OBrasilo 10:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Windows 3.11 (NOT For Workgroups) was the version to introduce 32bit Disk Access. It wasn't terribly useful since the system still had to thunk down to using the BIOS for storage operations. Other than that there wasn't much different from 3.1. This was the final version with Standard Mode for the 80286 CPU.

Actually, Windows 3.1 (NOT for Workgroups) already did have 32-bit Disk Access, in 386 Enhanced mode. NOTE: Windows 3.11 (NOT for Workgroups) only had an updated core, SETUP.EXE, SETUP.INF and some new network drivers - no other things were changed from Windows 3.1. - OBrasilo 10:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Windows For Workgroups 3.11, the final 3.x version, had both 32bit Disk and File access. No special drivers were required to use them with hard drives, if the controller was directly supported by Windows. CD-ROMs and other non-hard drive storage media required 32bit compatable drivers loaded through the DOS CONFIG.SYS and/or AUTOEXEC.BAT A WFWG 3.11 system with 32megs RAM and fully 32bit compliant storage drivers was quite nice and speedy.

Sections are needed on WinG, the advanced graphics display API Microsoft was developing before dropping it and switching to DirectX, and Win32s, the 32bit API command subset that was the fruit of Microsoft's early work on designing a fully 32bit Windows system. Most programs from the early 90's that say they're compatable with Windows 3.1x and 95 are actually Win32s programs, using that add-on to run on 3.x. Microsoft incorporated all the functionality of the Win32s API into Windows 95.

Actually, some programs still came in native Windows 3.1x versions even AFTER Windows 95 was released. Good examples of that were Paint Shop Pro (Version 3.12 was the last native Windows 3.1x version, if I recall correctly) and WinZIP (Version 6.3 was the last native Windows 3.1x version). - OBrasilo 10:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't recall ANY version of Windows 3.x (even NT 3.x) having any native ability to do anything with the right mouse button, not without 3rd party mouse drivers. (FYI, the PROGMAN and WINFILE from NT 4.5 will run in 2000 and XP, with long filename support, and they don't support any right mouse button functionality either.)

/* Paintbrush used the right mouse button. I don't know if it needed a separate driver, but i think it didn't. */

Who am I? Just someone with 22 years computer experience who has used every version of DOS from 2.1 through 6.22 and Windows from 3.0 through XP.

Don't know who left this anonymous comment but they have some of their facts wrong. 32bda was in 3.1, not 3.11; the comment about 32b compatible (note spelling) DOS drivers is vague (I know of no such limitation); there was no NT 4.5; & so on. I see no need for most of this. Liam Proven 30 June 2005 18:45 (UTC)

Yes, and I'm someone with almost 14 years computer experience, and I used every version of DOS from 1.25 through 7.10 (of the Chinese league), and Windows from 1.01 to Windows XP SP 2 (and this information is true, it's NOT sarcasm). So there, Mr. Anoynmous "22 years computer experience" Poster, it would be nice if you stopped showing off. - OBrasilo 10:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Windows NT 4.5 Small Business Server and Windows NT 4.5 BackOffice Server. Search Microsoft.com before claiming a product they made doesn't exist! To use a CD-ROM drive with 32bit disk and file access, the DOS driver had to be compatable with Windows taking control to avoid thunking to 16bit when accessing it. I ran into that many times. Fortunately the driver on the Win98SE boot disk works fine in place of most DOS CD-ROM drivers for Win 3.1x.

The product is still Windows NT 4.0. Look below for explanations on why it's so. - OBrasilo 10:19, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Windows 3.11 needs to be mentioned in the article to differentiate it from Windows For Workgroups 3.11, especially since that version still had Standard Mode and would run on a 286.

• Windows 3.11 (non wfwg) wasn't a product. It was Win3.1 with a patch that wasn't widely available. AFAIK, it was never slipstreamed into retail or OEM channels - msft just began shipping wfwg.

Oh really? How come I have a full disk set of Windows 3.11 (not FWG), and also in SEVERL LANGUAGES, including Thai and Turkish then? - OBrasilo 10:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Same point as OBrasilo: I do have a set of 8 disks, tagged with a famous 2-letter logo, with W3.11 (French release, without the 40/128-bit mess proper of WfW3.11) inside; came with OEM licenses. Also http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q32905/ lists it as a separate product. You are correct it was not common. AntoineL 18:16, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, 3.11 (not for workgroups) did exist, if i remember rightly it added better foreign language support but was otherwise identical to the normal 3.1, being more of a patch than a release 134.36.93.46 (talk) 05:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

• 4.5 on SBS and BOS are the version numbers of those products, not version numbers for Windows NT. They were NT4 with a suite of other server apps in one box.
• You can sign your comments by typing ~~~~

SchmuckyTheCat 1 July 2005 17:32 (UTC)

Not a product?

Windows 3.11 (non wfwg) was a product, though likely a product not promoted as "new", much like Windows 95B was (to the average user) just quietly introduced with new PCs. I had an original disk set with that version number on the lables AND on the splash screen. It can also be found as a set of disk images on various (usually transitory) "warez" or "abandonware" sites. I have also run into versions with 3.1 on the splash screen but internally* identified as 3.11, so those were probably 3.1 with the 3.11 patch.

More likely it was the other way around –- see screenshot at [1]. --tyomitch 15:21, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

There was also a 3.11 Special Upgrade Edition for Windows 2.x or 3.0.

When using the right API call to get the real version instead of the 3.10 Microsoft used to avoid problems with badly written apps that were hard coded to look only for 3.10 and would see 3.11 as not "3.1 or higher".

Another clue is the different disk lables. Windows 3.11 names are this format; MSWIN3111, MSWIN3112 etc. while WFWG names are WFW311_1, WFW311_2 etc. Microsoft lists the contents of the 3.11 disks http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;114448#appliesto (with the disk names) but not the WFWG 3.11 disks. I dug out a set of WFWG 3.11 disks to find the naming for that version.

So there! ;) Windows (non-Workgroups) was a real, distinct (though not actively marketed/hyped) product and should be mentioned on this Wikipedia page.

It's not a 'product' but rather a 'service pack'. It just updates a few files and changes the Windows version. Mentioned now --tyomitch 15:21, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Something else to mention in the article is the Workgroups For Windows add-on, including which versions of Windows it'd work with and the hardware requirements.

This name only has 746 Google results, and no relevant ones. If you know anything about it, please give me a link or extend the article yourself. --tyomitch 15:21, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Even at the time there was confusion about W3.11 and WFW3.11. WFW3.11 had very good reviews, and a lot of press. And W3.11 was a tiny minor update that got no reviews and no press and inevitably got confused with WFW3.11. At the time I thought that it was a cynical exercise in re-numbering like Word 6.0, only more dishonest. 150.101.166.15 (talk) 07:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Cynical exercise or not, how often is Windows 3.11 described as a separate product in published materials both online and off-line? Not just reviews, especially not just reviews at the time of its release!!! I think you will find the vast majority of off-web and online published materials define Win3.11 as a separate product. Even it "technically speaking" it isn't really, that is a point for wikis other than Wikipedia. Review Wikipedia Notability Guidelines Cuvtixo (talk) 16:21, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the vast majority of people, then and now, did not/do not realise that, unlike the WFW upgrade, the Win 3.11 upgrade was a new printer driver disk and not much else. It will be a shame if Wikipedia encourages this confusion. 150.101.166.15 (talk) 05:27, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

3.11 (not for workgroups) did exist, if i remember rightly it added better foreign language support and some bugfixes etc... but was otherwise identical to the normal 3.1, being more of a patch than a release134.36.93.46 (talk) 05:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

WFW 3.11 Disks

You can search for WFWG 3.11 Disk Directories in Microsoft's Knowledge Base for the file listings on the WFW 3.11 disks.