Jump to content

Talk:Sound and language in Middle-earth/GA1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< Talk:Sound and language in Middle-earth
This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Chiswick Chap (talk | contribs) at 19:28, 2 June 2022 (→GA Review: r). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

GA Review

GA toolbox
Reviewing

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Artem.G (talk · contribs) 14:57, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Hi Chiswick Chap! I'll be reviewing this article, expect comments in the next few days. Artem.G (talk) 14:57, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, I'll respond promptly. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:15, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Article is really nice, I never thought about this aspect of LotR despite the fact that Tolkien was a philologist.

Thank you.

First comments:

  • "As well as writing high fantasy, J. R. R. Tolkien was a professional philologist, a scholar of... " - maybe "As well as being an author of high fantasy, Tolkien was ..."? Seems that a noun is more suitable here.
    • It's the same, but wordier.
  • "He was especially familiar with Old English" - why not "He was an expert in Old English"? He was a known philologist, so "expert" should be right.
    • Done.
  • "He remarked to the poet and The New York Times book reviewer Harvey Breit that "I am a philologist and all my work is philological" - is this quote from "Carpenter 1981, letter 165 to Houghton Mifflin, 30 June 1955"?
    • Cited to the New York Times.
  • Caption "Untranslated, but still appreciated" - is it a quote? If so, it probably should be in quotation marks.
    • No, it's a paraphrase.
  • "the Sindarin poem A Elbereth Gilthoniel" - maybe "A Elbereth Gilthoniel, a poem written in Sindarin, Elfish language invented by Tolkien" or smth like this?
    • Good idea, done that.
  • "where Hobbits and Men lived together" - link Man (Middle-earth)
    • Linked.
  • ""a style that we should perhaps vaguely feel to be 'Celtic'""- link Celtic languages?
    • Linked.
  • "More recently, sound symbolism has been demonstrated to be widespread in natural language.[10][11][12] The bouba/kiki effect, for example, describes the cross-cultural association of sounds like "bouba" with roundness and "kiki" with sharpness.[13][14]" - I can see how it is related, though it seems a liitle bit OR as the quotes didn't show bouba/kiki are somehow related to Tolkien/Middle-earth. (I don't say it should be deleted though, but maybe some Tolkien scholar wrote about this?)
    • This is probably not a reliable source [1], but this can be better [2]
    • I was going to say about your first comment on this that the existing article text is just describing the field; no synthesis is possible, not least because the events are after Tolkien's death. On your sources, the second one is a scholarly paper: while it goes deeper into the technical effects, it comes no closer to Middle-earth as such, so I'm not sure we can use it in this article.
  • Maybe Chapter X from The Two Towers: The Voice of Saruman can be added?

The window closed. They waited. Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the words that they heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered only that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to seem wise themselves. When others spoke they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell. For some the spell lasted only while the voice spoke to them, and when it spoke to another they smiled, as men do who see through a juggler’s trick while others gape at it. For many the sound of the voice alone was enough to hold them enthralled; but for those whom it conquered the spell endured when they were far away, and ever they heard that soft voice whispering and urging them. But none were unmoved; none rejected its pleas and its commands without an effort of mind and will, so long as its master had control of it.

    • Perhaps, but that'd be an editorial choice without a scholarly comment on it. Further, it's about Saruman's power through his voice, rather than the sound of specific words.

More comments later. Artem.G (talk) 19:04, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sound_and_language_in_Middle-earth/GA1&oldid=1091192858"