Talk:Semantic data model

This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Computer science Start‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Computer science, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Computer science related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Computer scienceWikipedia:WikiProject Computer scienceTemplate:WikiProject Computer scienceComputer science

Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the |auto= parameter.

Things you can help WikiProject Computer science with:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests :
- Requested articles/Applied arts and sciences/Computer science, computing, and Internet
Cleanup :
- Computer science articles needing attention
- Computer science articles needing expert attention
Copyedit :
- Computing
Expand :
- Computer science
Infobox :
- Computer science articles without infoboxes
Maintain :
- Timeline of computing 2020–present
Photo :
- Find pictures for the biographies of computer scientists (see List of computer scientists)
- Computing articles needing images
Stubs :
- Computer science stubs
Unreferenced :
- WikiProject Computer science/Unreferenced BLPs
Project-related :
- Tag all relevant articles in Category:Computer science and sub-categories with {{WikiProject Computer science}}

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Systems: Scientific modeling Start‑class Mid‑importance

	Systems science portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Systems, which collaborates on articles related to systems and systems science.SystemsWikipedia:WikiProject SystemsTemplate:WikiProject SystemsSystems
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is within the field of Scientific modeling.

Semantic data model vs. conceptual data model

The text says that a semantic data model is sometimes called conceptual data model.

Does that mean, that it is just a synonym and the two articles could be merged? Or is there any difference in meaning?

--80.136.6.150 (talk) 16:52, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The problem here is that there is no real article about conceptual data model, just about conceptual schema, which if I am not mistaken is more about database modeling. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 21:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are right. I also know the term "conceptual schema" from the database context (ANSI-SPARC Architecture). Then probably, it is not correct to use the terms "conceptual schema" and "conceptual data model" synonymously like it is done here: conceptual schema. On the other hand these terms are used very inconsistently in literature (some authors claim that "conceptual schema" is not the same as "conceptual data model" / others use these terms interchangeably). --80.136.42.27 (talk) 18:15, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am still not sure. I did ask almost the same question 9 months ago, see here, and again in a discussion 6 months ago on the talk:Data model page (see my 23:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC) comment). I guess you are right about these terms are used indifferent meanings. The theory is far from clear here.

For example I am still wondering if the term conceptual data model should redirect to conceptual schema or Logical data model. And if there is a real difference between conceptual and logical data models...!? What do you think? -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 19:38, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think that conceptual and logical data models are not the same. A conceptual data model is completely independent from a data storage technology (e.g. relational, hierarchical, network or object database model, XML, etc.), while a logical data model is intended for relational databases and is closer to the physical data model, but independent from a specific relational DBMS implementation (Oracle, DB2, etc.). I know at least one modelling tool, which distinguishes these 3 data model types in the way I described.
But I still have to think about the distinction between "conceptual data model" and "conceptual schema"... --80.136.3.28 (talk) 18:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Terms are used very fuzzy and different among authors but you can separate semantic data[base] models = conceptual data[base] models and logical data models. A "schema" in both cases is a model expressed in a specific modeling language. So a "conceptual schema" is a semantic data model expressed in ERM, UML, ORM or similar language. -- JakobVoss (talk) 05:40, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The qualifier "semantic" suggests that an 'ordinary' data model is *not* semantic. This is patently false: any data model is a representation of object classes/types and the stereotypical relationship types between them. That is semantic. I suspect that the term is invented by someone who really has little understanding of data modelling generally, nor what the term "semantics" means (excuse the pun) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.169.22.32 (talk) 17:19, 16 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where is Abrial?

This article is very incomplete. Jean-Raymond Abrial introduced the semantic data model in 1974. It has been widely taught and used since. His work should at least be mentioned. Rp (talk) 08:22, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]