This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Rosguill(talk | contribs) at 20:23, 11 February 2022(restoring AE request that was never closed). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.Revision as of 20:23, 11 February 2022 by Rosguill(talk | contribs)(restoring AE request that was never closed)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Clean Copy
User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
[1] 31 January 2022 Whitewashing Rudolf Steiner's pseudoscience ("termed" instead of "are pseudoscientific" or "he was a peddler of rank pseudoscience")
[2] and [3] 30 January 2022: removing mention of Rudolf Steiner's pseudoscience.
I have replied to Clean Copy that a term does not have to be mentioned verbatim in order to fulfill WP:V requirements (the term termed isn't present in any of the cited RS, either). And if he still does not see why Steiner's ideas are rank pseudoscience, maybe one of us is in the wrong place. I mean: he does not have to agree with the mainstream view, just acknowledge the mainstream view for what it is. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:59, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Clean Copy: I did not edit war against termed or described. I would very much prefer are, but I will follow the consensus. And, yes, one can like or dislike Steinerian architecture, but that's a matter of taste, not an objective judgment. Also, at your 30 January edits, the Dugan reference had 3 (three) pages mentioned for verification. Of course, Google Books only shows one page. tgeorgescu (talk) 12:30, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Clean Copy
User:Tgeorgescu's original insertion of the text "He was also a peddler of rank pseudoscience" used a citation that linked to a specific page that said only, "Effects of the preparation have been verified scientifically." This clearly did not support the claim. It did not occur to me that the link he inserted (which was to page 32) was not to the page he meant to cite (page 31).
Once the page reference was clarified, and further citations were added, I modified the language from "a peddler of rank pseudoscience," in which "peddler" and "rank" were loaded terms supported by no citation, and a clear violation of WP:EPSTYLE, to "His ideas have been termed pseudoscientific," which is clearly accurate and less strident. I am certainly open to other language that reflects the tone and content of the citations and appropriate to an encyclopedia.
There have been comments about my reference to ""Anthroposophy's uses of Goethean science "have been verified scientifically.""
I want to clarify that User:Tgeorgescu linked specifically to this page in his citation. The page's only text relevant to Steiner's scientific status was this quote. It appeared such a flagrant misuse of a source that I quoted the actual text from the page he had cited. I would never have used such a source myself (I don't feel that popular works are particularly good sources, particularly when the authors of their articles are not recognized authorities in any relevant field). I genuinely had no idea that he had linked to a different page than the one he intended.
I also want to point out that a vast range of serious work from verifiable sources is cited in the article; Steiner's work in education, philosophy, social reform, and many other areas is not remotely treated as pseudoscientific. To ignore this is one-sided. I do feel the statement, which I put in once there were more sources than the above, that "His ideas have been termed pseudoscientific" reflects that there is a wide range of opinion here.
I also want to note that a topic ban based on a single edit removing a statement that admins agree was flagrantly in violation of the tone of an encyclopedia is a remarkably harsh response. Clean Copytalk11:25, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by PaleoNeonate
More a detail than a statement, I noticed Clear Copy recently when assessing the state of some related articles after a notice at FTN. My comment is to share these links in relation to a conflict of interest: 1, 2 (agreed 6-0 by ARBCOM at the time in 2006). —PaleoNeonate – 08:20, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by Alexbrn
For anyone not aware, the Clean Copy account was formerly named Hgilbert, and has a long history of strongly biased pro-Steiner editing.[7]
Statement by an IP editor
I have posted to WT:A/R and note that Alexbrn's comment that Clean Copy formerly edited as Hgilbert is confirmed.
There were adverse findings of fact against Hgilbert in the 2006 ArbCom case ArbCom case Waldorf Education that included a finding of biased editing of the Rudolf Steiner article. Though this was a long time ago, it is relevant background when considering allegedly problematic / biased editing of the same article. It is also another remedy under which action might be considered and Clean Copy is aware of this case as a party to it.
ArbCom are presently considering a motion regarding the utility of DS in the Waldorf Education topic, where editors might like to offer their perspectives.
Anticipating any concerns: Yes, I have an account that I have stopped using. No, I was not involved in the Waldorf Education ArbCom case. No, I don't recall any interactions with Hgilbert / Clean copy, though I do believe that pseudoscience topics needs to reflect scientific reality. Further, I offer no comment on Clean Copy's edits... I am simply noting that, as Hgilbert, there were specific ArbCom findings in a previous case relating to the same article. 172.195.96.244 (talk) 23:35, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Clean Copy
This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
This edit is an extremely misleading misuse of the source cited. It added a statement that "Anthroposophy's uses of Goethean science "have been verified scientifically."" Although the source is the The Skeptic Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience, Volume 1, that phrase is taken from an extract from the website of the Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association, which the Skeptic Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience quotes to illustrate what proponents of biodynamic agriculture believe. Nor is the phrase taken from the section on Goethean science but from the section on Biodynamics on the same page. Clean Copy then removed a statement that Steiner's ideas are considered pseudoscience, using this quote to argue that Steiner's work has been scientifically verified, rather than that the Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association doesn't think that biodynamic farming is pseudoscience. This does look like tenacious promotion of a fringe theory to me. Hut 8.519:21, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I sympathise with Clean Copy's opinion that "peddler of rank pseudoscience", stated in Wikipedia's voice, is overly strident phrasing. It shouldn't be in the article. However, Clean Copy's own misuse of the source, which Hut 8.5 describes, is hair-raising. It's very difficult to believe it was perpetrated in good faith. I recommend a topic ban from, at the least, Rudolf Steiner and anthrosophy, broadly construed. Bishonen | tålk22:08, 31 January 2022 (UTC).[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning 71.114.58.144
User who is submitting this request for enforcement
I filed a complaint about this user at WP:AIV; it was declined because the user's last warning was "stale". I requested protection for Steven Salaita and Steven Salaita hiring controversy at WP:RFPP; nothing was done because an administrator said there hadn't been enough disruptive activity to justify protection. I filed a complaint about this user at AN/I and the only outcome was that Drmies deleted some of this user's edits. So I am wondering how long this has to go on for before we do something to prevent this user from making further BLP violations. For the record, I do not personally agree with the views of Steven Salaita, but we have BLP standards that should be upheld.
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by 71.114.58.144
Statement by (username)
Result concerning 71.114.58.144
This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
Hard to enforce DS with an ip, so I decided to be creative. The IP address is listed as dynamic, but a look at the contribs says it is remarkably stable (mine at the house hasn't changed in years either, so it happens). I have blocked the IP for 6 months as a standard admin action. I left a template on the IPs page to this effect. If they come back with another IP, we may look at semi-protecting the pages. Leaving this report open in case any admin wants to opine or change my actions, which I'm open to. Otherwise, any admin can just close it. Dennis Brown - 2¢19:30, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
