Talk:Maslow's hierarchy of needs

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Motivational Theory

There has been a lot of argument as to the credibility or lack thereof, for this theory. However although unintended for management theories for motivation by Maslow; in practical terms if there is a manager with a small team of deflated workers, it's a little start, a 'so basic it might just help' theory that when a manager, whose head is full of figures and responsibilities that are so far away from the likes of arguments of principals and credibilities or science versus pyscho-babble, that when that manager thinks yes that might help! I'll put a drinks vendor in the office, or i'll put a security light up just by the exit where some workers stand at night waiting to be picked up, or lets have one to ones to address peoples goals, then that is when something as incorrect or not may just make that bit of a difference to peoples spirits, maybe even just for one day, but it could just add a bit of warmth to a usually cold, mundane place. That in that sense may just turn out to be more important to those people than even whether the earth go round the sun. On that day at least!

Energy Hierarchy link in the See also section.

I apologize if I'm completely missing something here, but I wonder, how is the Energy Hierarchy article link relevant in the "See also" section of an article about Maslow's theory of hierarchy of needs?

Maslow never drew a pyramid

According to psychologist Scott Barry Kaufman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Barry_Kaufman) and author of Transcend when interviewed by Robert Wright on meaningoflive.tv, there are some misconceptions. Each level of needs is not required to move on to the next level. Kaufman even makes a video game reference here. Also, Maslow never drew a pyramid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A98zPnaYDg no — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:3C9F:1D00:84CB:FFE8:FEA6:6CC0 (talk) 02:01, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Blackfoot connection

I've moved the following claim to the talk page until it can be better sourced/clarified:

Maslow's idea may have been informed by his work with Blackfeet Nation through conversations with elders and inspiration from the shape and meaning of the Blackfoot tipi, although Maslow never conceptualized his work as a pyramid. There has been no evidence that Maslow stole or borrowed ideas from the Blackfeet from his hierarchy of needs despite popular claims that Maslow misrepresented the Blackfoot worldview. The Blackfoot worldview places self-actualization as a basis for community-actualization and community-actualization as a basis for cultural perpetuity, the latter of which exists at the top of the tipi in Blackfoot philosophy.

Source is self-help book American Awakening: Eight Principles to Restore the Soul of America, but the actual genesis of this theory comes from a misintepretation of the work of Dr. Cindy Blackstock. To give a brief timeline of the confusion: In 1938, Maslow visited the Blackfoot nation - that's all we know. In 2005, Ryan Heavy Head of Red Crow Community College speculates how Maslow may have been influenced by Blackfoot beliefs. He cites some commonalities, and theorizes that Maslow may have been influenced by tipis (probably erroneous as Maslow didn't come up with the pyramid shape), but makes no specific claims that the heirarchy came from a Blackfoot belief. Later, Terry Cross would use Maslow's pyramid as an example to build the "relational worldview" model of indigineous welfare. But he makes no connection at all between Maslow and indigineous philosophy, and it's not even clear he knew Maslow had once visited the Blackfoots. He was simply using it was a way to contrast Western and indigineous thinking. Dr. Blackstock expanded on Cross' work to build the 'breath of life' theory, with a brand new 'Heirarchy of Needs (informed by Blackfoot Nation)'. As far as I know, she makes no claim that this is a historic model or that Maslow took these ideas from Blackfoot philosophy. In fact, she acknowledges that her model is based on Cross, which was based on Maslow, not the other way around.

So in short, there is no reliable source claiming Maslow directly borrowed any of his heirarchy from the Blackfoot tribe. It's fair to say he may have been influenced by his 1938 visit, but we can only speculate how much. Recently bloggers have begun conflating Maslow's 1938 trip with Blackstock's 2004 pyramid, reaching the erroneous conclusion that the former borrowed from the latter. That's not the case, and based on reading their work, I don't think Cross or Blackstock intended that to be drawn. As such, I recommend we strip down everything in this section speculating about tipis and the arrangment of the Blackfoot pyramid (which didn't exist until the 21st century), and just say "Maslow's work may have been informed by time he spent with the Blackfeet Nation", using Blackstock's paper as the source. Or nothing at all, considering this article is about the heirarchy and not Maslow's life. Thoughts? 2600:8800:2397:700:15BB:67A:4D84:91B (talk) 07:28, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree the evidence is currently lacking concerning Maslow borrowing/stealing ideas from Blackfoot beliefs. Interestingly, the topic has received fresh attention from an article just published by Teju Ravilochan - see Maslow Got It Wrong. Amusingly, he cites the wiki text that you've just removed. The latter article doesn't shed any new light on the issue (and maybe adds to the confusion), but there are a few strands of evidence that could be followed up:

• Ryan Heavy Head's presentation about Blackfoot influences on Abraham Maslow (and several others) is available in the Blackfoot Digital Library.
• Sidney Stone Brown's 2014 book called Transformation Beyond Greed; Native Self Actualization also asserts that Maslow was influenced by "observations of the Siksika tribe'. I haven't read the book, so I can't say whether it presents any new evidence or draws on Ryan Heavy Head's research.
• Several people (including Ryan Heavy Head) state that Maslow's 1938 visit to the Siksika Reserve only became known about in recent years. (Ryan Heavy Head says it was discovered after Maslow's death when researchers gained access to Maslow's unpublished papers that his family had donated to psychology archives.) However, it seems to have been overlooked that Maslow wrote about his visit in his 1954 book Motivation and Personality! He says: "...I can speak from direct knowledge of but one Indian group-the Northern Blackfoot - but this, however inadequate, was enough to convince me directly of the fundamental fact that the amount of destructiveness and aggression is largely culturally determined (...) The first and most important lesson that the writer learned from a field trip was that Indians are first of all people, individuals, human beings, and only secondarily Blackfoot Indians. By comparison with similarities, the differences, though undoubtedly there, seemed superficial. (Footnotes: 1. I wish to thank the Social Science Research Council who made this field trip possible by a grant-in-aid of research. 2. These statements apply primarily to the older, less acculturated individuals observed in the year 1939. The culture has changed drastically since then.)"

Manbooferie (talk) 19:23, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for those resources, I'm sure we can mine some good material from them. I am also looking into a copy of his journals. New lede phrasing is good, as is the Psychology Today source, although I'd advise future editors to use caution on extrapolating too much information from blogs. Even this Psychology Today blog (in addition to wilder speculations), makes several factual and causal errors, such as the Blackfoot "tipi" worldview (no evidence it existed before Cindy Blackstock, and I've never heard her claim otherwise) being an influence on Maslow (who never arranged his heirarchy into a pyramid shape). It's called 'a theory of Human Motivation', so it'd be shocking if a motivated blogger couldn't find any connections to Blackfoot beliefs, but when speculation becomes accusation, we really need to see some evidence (and to be cautious of 'false evidence', such as misinterpreting theories created 60 years later as being historic).24.251.106.103 (talk) 17:03, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

air as a need -- it's for the oxygen

I made the edit that suggested that the need for air is really for oxygen. Obviously, any other atmosphere causes quick suffocation. Nitrogen is appropriate for pressure, but pure nitrogen will cause death. Indeed, one proposed method of capital punishment is an oxygen-depleted, pure-nitrogen atmosphere.

That edit was reverted. Atmospheric oxygen is the need. Oxygen combined with other elements is inadequate for respiration, and liquid oxygen is much too dangerous. I suggest that the edit be restored; it is just too obvious to ignore. I will not do the reversion myself. Pbrower2a (talk) 10:33, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

This is article is about psychology, not physics or chemistry. The lay understanding of "air" is "stuff you breathe in order to live". There is absolutely no reader that will think that Maslow thought that people don't need oxygen perse to breathe, so simply writing that people need air to breathe is perfectly sufficient. This point does not need belaboring I think, but I will also mention that the given source also simply mentions "air", not "oxygen".--Megaman en m (talk) 10:49, 31 August 2021 (UTC)