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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by TraceTheory (talk | contribs) at 00:57, 18 January 2007 (→[[F@NB0Y$]]). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

F@NB0Y$

F@NB0Y$ (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View log)

Non-notable webcomic - more than one comic called Fanboys - Google search on "F@NB0Y$ Dewitt" narrows field to 10 unique out of 57 total. Search on "Fanboys Krudman" returns only 16 unique on 6,580. Delete MikeWazowski 03:16, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep Google searches to determine notability, in this case specifically, are not viable. The use of non-alphanumeric characters and the general reference to the comic as "fanboys", a term not easily searchable given it's common usage, especially within circles where it's popular, makes it completely unfair to judge in this manner. There is simply no good manner to search for this and return an accurate count which is usable to judge anything.

The comic has recently been featured on extremely popular gaming sites such as Destructoid, Joystiq, Dueling Analogs, and more. The comic is continuously growing in popularity, and receives thousands of hits a day. Certainly it has achieved a popularity higher than many of the comics on the wiki's list of webcomics.

The article itself is well-made and appears to meet all Wikipedia standards. Given it's growing popularity, it's winnings and features in Joystiq's weekly webcomic poll (Joystiq sits w/ an Alexa rating around 2000), and it's mention on numerous other gaming and comic sites around the net, I think F@NB0Y$ has certainly earned itself a small wikipedia article. I'd also like a viable explanation as to who the hell it's hurting by existing. This seems counter-intuitive to the concept of the Wikipedia, when good information is censored based on a few people who don't feel the work "popular enough". --Nmaster64 11:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


---Wiki-approved Webcomics with lower traffic rankings than F@NB0Y$---

Note: the list above marks every webcomic existing on the Wikipedia's List of webcomics that has a lower Alexa traffic rankings for it's domain than Fanboys-Online.com. This does not include any comics who's sites do not have data available, nor comics who's rankings are increased due to co-existing on a domain with other content or comics. Thus, it is likely the list is in reality longer.

Based on the above information, the basis that the webcomic F@NB0Y$ is non-notable is at best ridiculous, at worst an example of horrible bias. It's clear F@NB0Y$ is even at current a relatively popular webcomic, and with it's continued growth, especially as it begins to see more and more exposure, merits the existence of a Wiki article. --Nmaster64 15:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The above list looks like a ready-made batch AfD nomination. We don't have to keep non-notable things just because there are even less notable things which haven't been deleted yet. But that does not mean that the less notable things automatically get a pass when it comes to WP:N WP:V and WP:RS, such as the hundreds of Pokemon characters with their own articles and zero independent cites for notability. Edison 20:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Traffic ranking has nothing to do with notability. We don't keep articles just because they have a traffic rank or another. Please see: WP:WEB and WP:RS. The criteria require that "the content itself has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the site itself". bogdan 15:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If the Wikipedia guidelines cannot understand the concept of userbase, then they have failed. The point I'm trying to push forward is that F@NB0Y$ enjoys a much larger number of readers and traffic than a LARGE number of the "notable" webcomics, and therefore it is a given there are going to be more people interested in the Wiki entry than for some relatively unread webcomic who happens to have the "subject of multiple non-trivial published works" criteria met. Also, it is my opinion the comic HAS in addition met with WP:WEB, as Autodmc explained so well. I understand the need for notability guidelines, but if they've sunk to this point, then the Wikipedia is being limited and censored on a level that completely goes against the original principles of the project. --Nmaster64 16:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Woah, we get the point. Waaaay too many links... -Ryanbomber 16:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • KEEP per Nmaster64, both times, and bogdan. F@NBOY$ is WP:WEB, it has won awards that can be independently verified.
A webpoll? That's your award? Hah. I don't think it passes WP:WEB. bogdan 17:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In my last Google search of "fanboys," fanboys-online.com ranked 4th from the top.
The article is in the style of Penny Arcade (webcomic), Ctrl+Alt+Del, 8-bit Theatre, and Press Start To Play. PSTP links to F@NBOY$ from their website.
This article is not an advertisement, it's written from a Neutral Point of View, all claims are verifiable, it doesn't contain original research, and it doesn't have any copyright issues. It's simply an informational webcomic stub article containing information about a webcomic that is gaining in popularity and notice. I see no reason to limit Wikipedia's informational vault in this case. Autodmc 15:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Common sense alone should garner the growing popularity given it's increase feature in the Joystiq polls, and it's recent features on numerous other webcomic sites and Destructoid. Alexa also shows a solid growth in traffic over time, especially recently. This is all coupled with direct speak from the author of the comic. I will see if I can't get any more specific information out of him regarding this. --Nmaster64 16:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It got a whole 911 votes at Joystiq. An informal, low turnout net poll is scrapping the barrel for notability. The creator isn't a reliable source for the popularity of the strip due to the conflict of interest.--Nydas(Talk) 18:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The vote turnout is not as relevant as the site traffic. Joystiq marks probably the biggest gaming blog on the internet. That is hardly scrapping the barrel. Besides, I don't see why it's necessary a webcomic need some award or plaque to say their notable.
Website stats are conflict of interest? Wow, now I know the Wikipedia has failed. Opinion has overruled fact in an attempt to remain "neutral". That's both the funniest and most pitiful thing I've heard all week. --Nmaster64 18:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, regardless of all that, I'm going to post some anyway. I checked the tracker myself, independent of the creator, and found the comic averages almost 3,000 uniques a day, and over 17,000 a week. The comic nabbed over 74,000 in December, and almost 70,000 in the first half of January. This shows it's growing, and from what I've heard (even though I know it's "conflict of interest" due to source), this has been consistent with previous months. Also, I've found links to F@NB0Y$ featured everywhere from RPG-TV and Hockey Zombie to the Bungie blog. It's also somewhat notable also in my own opinion that this is all with practically no advertising or marketing, almost all word of mouth. I believe it was just yesterday Scott commented he was getting into advertising, so that should further grow the comic. --Nmaster64 19:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you contributed on a more even basis to Wikipedia, rather than just pushing one article, you would understand why we have to have strict rules on notability. You're obviously angry that this is threatened by deletion, but you can place your article on Comixpedia, the wiki for webcomics, so it won't be wasted.--Nydas(Talk) 19:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You can take your Wiki-Elitist attitude elsewhere, I fully comprehend the need for notability rules regardless of my contributions. I'm simply stating that if they contend with a webcomic with this level of traffic that has a well-made stub, then they have gotten TOO strict, and quite so. There is no harm in this article's existence, period. And the Comixpedia Wiki is simply a failure, although a F@NB0Y$ article is up there. Ironic to note, F@NB0Y$ has about twice the traffic ranking of that entire wiki. --Nmaster64 20:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As is stated below, this is not the place to overturn guidelines and policies. If you want to do that, try Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Webcomics and Wikipedia talk:Notability (web).--Nydas(Talk) 21:34, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In regards to "the Google Test", I think it's important to point out, as Autodmc noted, the comic does return 4th when searching simply for "fanboys". That's an extremely common word, and is actually technically not the correct name of the comic, so for it to be featured so highly on that search, as far as I'm concerned the test is passed. --Nmaster64 16:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
...Which is one of the reasons I pointed it out. Like so. -Ryanbomber 16:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ad hominem. -Ryanbomber 16:17, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But true, nevertheless. TheRealFennShysa 16:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If Albert Einstein went up for AFD and a bunch of meatpuppets voted "Keep," would that be a valid reason to delete? -Ryanbomber 16:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But I think you have to admit there are a lot of new or inactive users who vote keep. ;-) bogdan 16:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I know that. I flagged a SPA myself. That doesn't undermine the fact that there's no real argument against the article except "as per" votes and two search engine tests. -Ryanbomber 16:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My delete vote was based on the original nomination - I noticed the suspicious pattern and looked into it *after* I made my choice. TheRealFennShysa 16:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just sayin'. -Ryanbomber 16:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to request the "Delete per nom" people evaluate themselves, as the nomination argument has been pretty much invalidated. The ONLY arguable part remaining is the first 2 words... --Nmaster64 16:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Invalidated to your specifications, no doubt, but I remain unconvinced. It's obvious you're a fan - you're quite vocal about this on that forum. However, you're letting that blind you to the stark realities - outside your circle of fans, there doesn't seem to be much to back up the notability of the comic. Also, by trying to bring all those other webcomics into the argument, you're going for what's been called "The Pokemon Test" - they aren't under discussion here, though. If you feel they're not worthy, take it to those pages and initiate AfDs there, if you have valid reasons to do so and solid evidence as to why they're not notable. But the simple fact that they exist isn't reason enough to keep this one.
Yes, I'm an avid fan of F@NB0Y$. Regardless, I've always been an avid fan of the Wikipedia and it's founding principles, however this insanity completely shatters that in my own opinion. The need for some notability standards is obvious, but when you approach this level, there's no viable argument as to what it's hurting by having this article exist. If I hadn't spent a good 6 to 8 hours of my life writing it, it might not bother me so much...
I'm using a variation of the Pokemon Test, I admit. Well, I'm a supporter of the Pokemon test. If X is more notable than Y, but X is "not notable enough", than Y should not exist. Thus, go get Y deleted then come back and you have an argument to delete X. That's my thoughts on the Pokemon test. --Nmaster64 18:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Also, since I was a bit bored at the moment, I did a little searching on my own. According to this page, Fanboys is currently ranked 2475 out of 8163 webcomics. Let's look at some of the first few on your list - Achewood is #202, Alecto: Songbook is #3545, Alice! is #2133, Angels2200 is #89, AntiHero for Hire is #61... I'm not going to go through the entire list, though. However, a quick glance at those comics Wikipedia pages shows that Achewood has apparently seen some actual print publication, Alecto: Songbook has been physically published, as has Alice! - all solid bases for notability. Also, check the discussion page for WP:WEB - Alexa rankings (none of which your provided, just the claim that Fanboys is higher) is no longer considered a valid source due to some reporting problems it has with some platforms. TheRealFennShysa 17:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Uh, that entry is for a different comic. Check the web address, it's missing a dash...If you don't believe my Alexa rankings, check 'em yourself, I gave the URLs. Many of them sit in the millions, nowhere remotely close to F@NB0Y$. Any way you look at it, F@NB0Y$ seems to certainly have enough readers it should merit a frikkin' Wikipedia article. When it comes to something like a webcomic, magazine, newspaper, websites in general, anything that's got a "subscription" type release schedule like that, should be judged more on it's reach and reader base than links from other sites. I'm a game journalist, and used to run my own news site. I could probably link to a hundred sites that sourced me for stuff, hell even the Wikipedia entry for Wii once linked back to me. Does that give my site notability to where I could create an article for my site? I never thought so, because despite my success in marketing, I had a very low consistent reader base. By the standards your pushing forth however, my site deserved a Wiki article more than a site with a thousand times my traffic but without the links from Slashdot and everyone else. That just doesn't make sense, that's not how things should be judged. Then your playing into marketing, which is supposed to be what the Wiki tries to avoid... --Nmaster64 18:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm curious, what would be considered the "High Water Mark" for a webcomic to be allowed a page on Wikipedia? A certain number of readers? [Self-]Publishing a book? Does that book have to be in major book stores? Does the comic have to have a set number of characters, a set number of hits-per-day (as reported by the ISP), a set number of fans who notice the article and the mark for deletion? A set level of quality? Inclusion in an archive/collective/syndicate? Mention on CNN or in the New York Times? I think that's what the real issue behind this discussion is: *What is the criteria for inclusion of a webcomic in Wikipedia?* (This is a sincere question, not meant as, for example, a defense or prop or sarcastic reply to the above mentioned "Pokemon Test") Autodmc 18:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I linked to the relevant guidelines in my post above. But for clarity's sake, take a look at Wikipedia's notability guidelines for web-based content. TheRealFennShysa 18:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This does need to be addressed, seriously. That link? Yeah, that's the problem... --Nmaster64 18:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is not the place to dispute policies or guidelines. Seriously. --Dhartung | Talk 20:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just because wikigeeks DON'T like something does not give it NO notability. --Nmaster64 21:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I can certainly remove a couple of the links and replace them with outside references if that would make some people happy... --Nmaster64 00:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What's this bullshit? I've never sockpuppeted before, and I take full offense at that accusation. Now your just flaming in bad taste to discredit me. I'm completely aware of Wikipedia's policies, heaven-forbid I claim a few of them are full of crap. I don't know why I tolerate that warning at the top either, unless linking and critiquing are the same as solicitation. --Nmaster64 00:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC)--[reply]
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