View source for Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Software/Archive 4

{{Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Software/header}}

== All GFDL images are software! ==

See [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Categories#All_GFDL_images_are_software.21]]. Cross-posting here because that WikiProject sees little participation. [[User:Pohta ce-am pohtit|Pcap]] [[User_talk:Pohta ce-am pohtit|<small>ping</small>]] 19:04, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
== Criteria for "Comparison of ..." articles ==

I've started a RfC on my proposal for dealing with one of these articles, where the discussion has been particularly heated. My proposal is not specific to that kind of software, so hopefully the result of the discussion can be used as a precedent for all similar articles. Please participate at [[Talk:Comparison of Internet Relay Chat clients#A way forward]]. [[User:Pohta ce-am pohtit|Pcap]] [[User_talk:Pohta ce-am pohtit|<small>ping</small>]] 15:10, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
== Computer programmer BLP articles in danger of immediate, no warning deletion ==

For those not following the wiki dramaz, there's a plan in the works to prod all unreferenced BLPs (check your watch list notice for a pointer). Below is an intersection of that category with the [[:Category:Computer  programmers]], using [http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php this tool]. The usual battle plan is to strike them out as you reference them. Some may be incorrectly tagged.  

<s>* [[Alvy_Ray_Smith]]: [[:Category:Computer_graphics_professionals|Computer_graphics_professionals]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{done}} Notable. Mistag.

<s>* [[Andrey_"KranK"_Kuzmin]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s>{{notdone}} Questionable Notability. Sent to AfD.

<s>* [[Antony_Crowther]]: [[:Category:British_computer_programmers|British_computer_programmers]], [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{done}} Notable. Mistag.

<s>* [[Birger_Møller-Pedersen]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s>{{done}} Questionable Notability. Asserted Notability, Verified Accurate. No Contentious Material.

<s>* [[Bob_Scheifler]]: [[:Category:Free_software_programmers|Free_software_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s>{{done}} Notable. Asserted Notability, Verified Accurate on Software Page. Citation Ported Over. No Contentious Material.

<s>* [[Bob_Shannon]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{notdone}} Questionable Notability. Sent to AfD.

<s>* [[Bob_Smith_(Atari)]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{notdone}} Non-Notable. Redirected to main article.

<s>* [[Bob_Sproull]]: [[:Category:Computer_graphics_professionals|Computer_graphics_professionals]], [[:Category:Computer_graphics_researchers|Computer_graphics_researchers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{done}} Notable. Mistag. 

<s>* [[Brian_Fox]]: [[:Category:Free_software_programmers|Free_software_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{done}} Notable. Mistag.
* [[Ciaran_Gultnieks]]: [[:Category:British_computer_programmers|British_computer_programmers]], [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Daniel_J._Sandin]]: [[:Category:Computer_graphics_professionals|Computer_graphics_professionals]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
<s>* [[Daniel_Kottke]]: [[:Category:American_computer_programmers|American_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{done}} Notable. Mistag.
* [[Dave_D._Taylor]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[David_Crane_(programmer)]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[David_Jones_(programmer)]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[David_Moon]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[David_Rolfe]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Dona_Bailey]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Eddie_Dombrower]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[François_Lionet]]: [[:Category:French_computer_programmers|French_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Fred_Parke]]: [[:Category:Computer_graphics_professionals|Computer_graphics_professionals]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Gary_Grigsby]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Gary_Martin_(programmer)]]: [[:Category:American_computer_programmers|American_computer_programmers]], [[:Category:Computer_systems_engineers|Computer_systems_engineers]], [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Gerard_Beekmans]]: [[:Category:Free_software_programmers|Free_software_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Gordon_J._Key]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Henry_Fuchs]]: [[:Category:Computer_graphics_professionals|Computer_graphics_professionals]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Ian_Bird_(software_developer)]]: [[:Category:British_computer_programmers|British_computer_programmers]], [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Iikka_Keränen]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Jeff_O'Neill_(game_designer)]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Jeremy_Sagan]]: [[:Category:American_computer_programmers|American_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Jez_San]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Joe_Sparks]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Johanna_Moore]]: [[:Category:Fellows_of_the_British_Computer_Society|Fellows_of_the_British_Computer_Society]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* <s>[[John_Harris_(software_developer)]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{done}} Questionable Notability. Mistag.
* [[John_Mashey]]: [[:Category:American_computer_programmers|American_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* <s>[[John_McAfee]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{done}} Notable. Mistag.
* [[Jorge_Stolfi]]: [[:Category:Free_software_programmers|Free_software_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Keith_Packard]]: [[:Category:Free_software_programmers|Free_software_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Loïc_Dachary]]: [[:Category:French_computer_programmers|French_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* <s>[[Marius_Enge]]: [[:Category:Norwegian_computer_programmers|Norwegian_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{done}} Probably notable.
* [[Mark_Grand]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Martin_Newell_(computer_scientist)]]: [[:Category:Computer_graphics_researchers|Computer_graphics_researchers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Mental_Driller]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Michael_Abrash]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Michael_Meeks_(software)]]: [[:Category:GNOME_developers|GNOME_developers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Michael_Sperberg-McQueen]]: [[:Category:American_computer_programmers|American_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Michael_Sweet_(programmer)]]: [[:Category:Free_software_programmers|Free_software_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Mike_O'Brien_(game_developer)]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Mike_Robertson_(programmer)]]: [[:Category:Norwegian_computer_programmers|Norwegian_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Nasir_Gebelli]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Orkut_Büyükkökten]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Patrick_Buckland]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Patrick_Wyatt]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Per_Håkan_Sundell]]: [[:Category:Swedish_computer_programmers|Swedish_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Robert_Jaeger]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Roger_Hui]]: [[:Category:Canadian_computer_programmers|Canadian_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Ryo_Kawasaki]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Sampo_Karjalainen]]: [[:Category:Finnish_computer_programmers|Finnish_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
<s>* [[Sean_Barrett_(programmer)]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s>{{notdone}} Nonnotable, no contentious material.
* [[Simon_Cozens]]: [[:Category:British_computer_programmers|British_computer_programmers]], [[:Category:Perl_writers|Perl_writers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Siraj_Razick]]: [[:Category:Free_software_programmers|Free_software_programmers]], [[:Category:Sri_Lankan_computer_programmers|Sri_Lankan_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Steve_Fawkner]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Thom_Henderson]]: [[:Category:American_computer_programmers|American_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
<s>* [[Thomas_Knoll]]: [[:Category:Computer_graphics_professionals|Computer_graphics_professionals]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{done}} Notable. Asserted Notability, Verified Accurate. No Contentious Material.

<s>* [[Tim_Anderson_(Zork)]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]] </s> {{done}} Notable. Asserted Notability, Verified Accurate on Software Page. Citation Ported Over. No Contentious Material.
* [[Tim_Martin_(programmer)]]: [[:Category:American_computer_programmers|American_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Tim_O'Reilly]]: [[:Category:Irish_computer_programmers|Irish_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Tim_Riker]]: [[:Category:Free_software_programmers|Free_software_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Trung_Dung]]: [[:Category:American_computer_programmers|American_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
<s>* [[Wayne_Bell_(computer_specialist)]]: [[:Category:American_computer_programmers|American_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s> {{done}} Questionable Notability. Mistag.
* [[Wayne_Davison]]: [[:Category:Free_software_programmers|Free_software_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Werner_Randelshofer]]: [[:Category:Computer_programmers|Computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Wes_Cumberland]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* <s>[[William_Barden,_Jr.]]: [[:Category:American_computer_programmers|American_computer_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]</s>
* [[William_Tang_(video_game_author)]]: [[:Category:British_computer_programmers|British_computer_programmers]], [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]], [[:Category:ZX_Spectrum_programmers|ZX_Spectrum_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Yoshiharu_Gotanda]]: [[:Category:Video_game_programmers|Video_game_programmers]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]

Regards. [[User:Pohta ce-am pohtit|Pcap]] [[User_talk:Pohta ce-am pohtit|<small>ping</small>]] 13:36, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

=== Businesspeople in software ===
This is a disjoint category, but some articles may be already included in the above list if they're categorized in both:

* [[Brian_Schmidt]]: [[:Category:Microsoft_employees|Microsoft_employees]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Daniel_A._Reed_(computer_scientist)]]: [[:Category:Microsoft_employees|Microsoft_employees]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Ed_Oates]]: [[:Category:Oracle_employees|Oracle_employees]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Eugene_Luskin]]: [[:Category:Microsoft_employees|Microsoft_employees]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Grete_Faremo]]: [[:Category:Microsoft_employees|Microsoft_employees]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Laura_Massey]]: [[:Category:Microsoft_employees|Microsoft_employees]], [[:Category:Microsoft_evangelists|Microsoft_evangelists]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Robin_Raina]]: [[:Category:Businesspeople_in_software|Businesspeople_in_software]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Scott_Isaacs]]: [[:Category:Microsoft_employees|Microsoft_employees]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]
* [[Syed_Iftikar]]: [[:Category:Businesspeople_in_software|Businesspeople_in_software]]; [[:Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs|All_unreferenced_BLPs]]

[[User:Pohta ce-am pohtit|Pcap]] [[User_talk:Pohta ce-am pohtit|<small>ping</small>]] 22:37, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
== I am Bob Shannon ==

The information on wiki, about me,  which was originally input by one of our 7 children was disputed in many ways over the years since it's input. I no longer claim to be father of the BBS as it is, or was. I would like to mention that Kathy Yakal, one of the people who wrote about me was hard for me to look up after all these years and she is the one who put quote marks around her words.......I think she was signed in under her name...she was and still is an editor of computer magazines...the first being Computes Gazette and Computer magazine. She is fairly easy now for anyone to get a hold of if need be. I do still have a copy of the issue in question published in 1984.

I am now 64 years old. I wrote the program in 1982. I did in deed sell over 4000 copies not 400. Up until that point in my life I was disabled....and this program brought me out of it and into business..I had one of the first computer stores in Northern California.....all based on the monies I made from Electric Magazine. I am proud of what I did....and I am proud that one of my children decided to enter it into Wiki.

When I was young and writing this program...actually I was about 37......I was a happy father and happy for my success. It saddens me that some of the younger generation see reason to dispute what I have done...I am TRULY saddened. I have been very proud of my addition to Wiki...but if it goes....know this...I will accept it...but it will hurt me....My wife and I have taught and raised 7 kids, many of whom are now professionals in their own fields...5 college graduates....I am sure they too shall share in my emotional pain.

Electric Magazine brought me from a ill-nobody to a big (my word) somebody, recognized by  very many when only a handful owned computers.....I humbly request of you not to delete it....

Thank you for your time and consideration.
Bob Shannon
Cheney, Washington  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by 
[[User:Eqshannon|Eqshannon]] ([[User talk:Eqshannon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eqshannon|contribs]]) 05:50, 3 February 2010 
(UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Quick Reply:

:A) Welcome to Wikipedia!
:B) This isn't the deletion discussion. 
:C) Per wikipedia policy, any editors claiming to represent real life people should send proof to the foundation. Real life information related to yourself/accounts should not be posted on wikipedia.
:D) We are not disputing what you did, but per [[WP:N|notability guidelines]], [[WP:RS|reliability guidelines]], and [[WP:OR|original research guidelines]], your contribution might not be worthy of it's own article. Your software probably meets guidelines for inclusion on wikipedia (if [[WP:V|verifiable]], just not under it's own article. I understand that these policies have little in terms of human considerations, however, there is an (exaggerated) "crisis" on wikipedia right now involving biographies, and the interpretation of policies that you've experienced is actually quite lenient in comparison to some of the proposed solutions (to which I oppose).
 (Can someone else fill in relevant links to the policies that explain the above? I'm overdue for bed right now)
[[User:Noian|<span style="color:red;">'''&eta;oian'''</span>]] [[User talk:Noian|<small><span style="color:MediumSeaGreen;">''&Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers''</span></small>]] 07:13, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
== Let's discuss appropriate sourcing ==

I'd like to see more discussion of what appropriate sourcing for software projects should look like, something like [[Wikipedia:Reliable_source_examples]] and the 'see also' referencing guides listed there. I'm very concerned about the tenor of discussions, where I observe the [[Wikipedia:Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_discussions#Google_test]] used. I'll mention this at [[WP:WikiProject Computing]] and [[WP:WikiProject Software]] but wanted to mention it here as well, since the current list of AfD made me believe this is needed. [[User:Jodi.a.schneider|Jodi.a.schneider]] ([[User talk:Jodi.a.schneider|talk]]) 21:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

* Commented on [[Talk:Comparison_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_clients#A_way_forward]] instead, since I think [[User:Pohta_ce-am_pohtit]] is addressing the right questions. [[User:Jodi.a.schneider|Jodi.a.schneider]] ([[User talk:Jodi.a.schneider|talk]]) 22:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

** This isn't a great venue to discuss it. This talk page is for maintenace issue with this [[WP:DELSORT]] queue. Usually something like you want to address gets discussed at a [[WP:WikiProject]], in this case [[WP:WikiProject Software]]. [[User:Pohta ce-am pohtit|Pcap]] [[User_talk:Pohta ce-am pohtit|<small>ping</small>]] 22:22, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, [[WP:Notability (software)]] and [[Wp:Software notability]] essays are just around the corner. Otherwise, stick with [[WP:RS]] and [[WP:RAP]] and you're golden...unless someone wants to start a [[WP:Reliable Source (software)]] essay. [[User:Noian|<span style="color:red;">'''&eta;oian'''</span>]] [[User talk:Noian|<small><span style="color:MediumSeaGreen;">''&Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers''</span></small>]] 00:00, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

*** Thanks, Noian, those are useful pointers. [[Wikipedia:Notability_(software)]] suggests: "It is not unreasonable to allow relatively informal sources[3] for free and open source software, if significance can be shown.[4] On the other hand, software that is distributed commercially or supported by businesses is a commercial product. Such sources should fulfill the breadth and depth of coverage required for a stand alone commercial product article." This is the sort of discussion I'd like to have. I think clear criteria (i.e. indicating and evaluating 'relatively informal sources') and consensus. I'd collaborate on [[WP:Reliable Source (software)]] but I don't feel able to start such a page... [[User:Jodi.a.schneider|Jodi.a.schneider]] ([[User talk:Jodi.a.schneider|talk]]) 10:42, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's difficult to list sources for something as vast as this, but the videogames wikiproject has guidelines, which give non-self-published reviews as reliable sources. See [[Wikipedia:VG/RS#List]]. Something like this can be done in task forces or similar sub-wikiprojects. [[User:Pohta ce-am pohtit|Pcap]] [[User_talk:Pohta ce-am pohtit|<small>ping</small>]] 12:37, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The [[Wikipedia:VG/RS#List]] seems like a good model. I particularly like that they have a custom search engine. Anybody else interested in talking this through? Pcap is right, "software" is too big a topic. So I think the first step would be to either choose a subtopic or maybe to think about the different ''types'' of articles that exist. A sourcing discussion at [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/MUME]] got me thinking about this again. [[User:Jodi.a.schneider|Jodi.a.schneider]] ([[User talk:Jodi.a.schneider|talk]]) 10:59, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
== Request for article review ==

Hello!  One of my adoptees would like the members of this project to review an article he created on a mobile device managment platform.  I have helped him some with grammar, but as it concerns a product I am not personally familiar with and thus not an expert on it, it would me most helpful if someone(s) from this project could give the article a look and see if it is ready for mainspace.  Thank you for your time.  The proposed article is at [[User:PCJain/sandbox]].  It gets [http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&source=hp&q=Mobility-as-a-Service&oq=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn some] hits on Google News that could perhaps be helpful.  Sincerely, --[[User:A Nobody|A Nobody]]<sup>''[[User talk:A Nobody|My talk]]''</sup> 19:18, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
== X11 WMs up for deletion ==

FYI, a bunch of X/11 Window Managers have been sent for deletion via AfD, see [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2010_February_21]]

[[Special:Contributions/70.29.210.242|70.29.210.242]] ([[User talk:70.29.210.242|talk]]) 10:37, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

== Category:CNC, CAD, and CAM ==

FYI, [[:Category:CNC, CAD, and CAM]] has been nominated for renaming. [[Special:Contributions/70.29.210.242|70.29.210.242]] ([[User talk:70.29.210.242|talk]]) 06:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

== Category:FORTRAN programming language family ==

[[:Category:FORTRAN programming language family]] has been nominated for renaming. [[Special:Contributions/70.29.210.242|70.29.210.242]] ([[User talk:70.29.210.242|talk]]) 06:52, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
== Source code vs pseudocode ==

Please, see [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (mathematics)#Source code and pseudocode]]. The problem is very important for future development of computer sci. articles. A consensus needs to be reached.--[[User:Tim32|Tim32]] ([[User talk:Tim32|talk]]) 15:05, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
== [[NanoZip]] article is to be deleted ==

Hello!

Help is needed. NanoZip is a novel file archiver in alpha state currently. Benchmarks show that it is better than any other archivers today. I think it worth to be mentioned in Wikipedia, but it is proposed that article is to be deleted.
--[[User:Varnav|Varnav]] ([[User talk:Varnav|talk]]) 09:48, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

:Article is no more proposed for deletion, but some help with estabilishing the notability is needed. Please see [[Talk:NanoZip|the article's talk page]] for details. --[[User:Varnav|Varnav]] ([[User talk:Varnav|talk]]) 22:40, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
== Notability guidelines for software? ==

Does this project maintain its own notability guidelines? The dwm and awesome deletion discussions inspired a chat about this at the recent [[LibrePlanet]] conference.    <span style="border:1px solid #eee;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;">&ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|<span style="color:#f90;">'''+'''</span>]]</span> 07:29, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
== Notification regarding [[Wikipedia:Books|Wikipedia-Books]] ==

{|style="float:right; border:1px solid darkgrey; margin:0em 0em 0em 1em;"
|-
|{{Pp-book-cover|title=Hadronic Matter |subtitle=An overview |cover-image=Quark structure proton.svg |cover-color=CornFlowerBlue}}
|-
|width=100px|<small>An example of a book cover, taken from [[Book:Hadronic Matter]]</small>
|}
As detailed in [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2010-03-22/Wikipedia-Books#Cleanup effort|last week's Signpost]], [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedia-Books|WikiProject Wikipedia books]] is undertaking a cleanup all [[Wikipedia:Books|Wikipedia books]]. Particularly, the {{tl|saved book}} template has been updated to allow editors to specify the default covers of the books. Title, subtitle, cover-image, and cover-color can all be specified, and an HTML preview of the cover will be generated and shown on the book's page (an example of such a cover is found on the right). Ideally, all books in [[:Category:Book-Class software articles]] should have covers.

If you need help with the {{tl|saved book}} template, or have any questions about books in general, see [[Help:Books]], [[Wikipedia:Books]], and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedia-Books]], or ask me on [[User talk:Headbomb|my talk page]]. Also feel free to join [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedia-Books|WikiProject Wikipedia-Books]], as we need all the help we can get.

<small>This message was delivered by [[User:EarwigBot]], at 00:44, 8 April 2010 (UTC), on behalf of [[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]]. Headbomb probably isn't watching this page, so if you want him to reply here, just leave him a message on his talk page. [[User:EarwigBot|<span style="color:#080;">Earwig</span><span style="color:#040;">Bot</span>]]&nbsp;<sup>([[User:The Earwig|<span style="color:black">owner</span>]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:The Earwig|<span style="color:black">talk</span>]])</sup> 00:44, 8 April 2010 (UTC)</small>
== Software status ==

Are there some guidelines that distinguish between freeware/shareware/abandonware and discontinued/unmaintained/maintained?[[User:Smallman12q|Smallman12q]] ([[User talk:Smallman12q|talk]]) 22:21, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
== There's a DRV for [[Informatica]] (the corporation) ==

at [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2010 April 20]]. [[User:Pohta ce-am pohtit|Pcap]] [[User_talk:Pohta ce-am pohtit|<small>ping</small>]] 04:46, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
== Pixetell ==

I have proposed an overhaul of the “Pixetell” article [[Pixetell]] that was previously posted and raised concerns among some reviewers. I am an employee of Ontier, the company that makes and sells Pixetell, which is an online communications software product.  I value Wikipedia and understand the legitimate concerns about companies attempting to use Wikipedia for marketing purposes. My company wishes to have a presence on Wikipedia, one that meets the high standards of Wikipedia and strengthens it as a resource for objective information. I have made a point of reading through relevant policies, guidelines, and essays (such as [[WP:COI]], [[WP:N]], [[WP:V]], and [[WP:Best practices for editors with conflicts of interest]], as well as [[Opera (web browser)]] (as an FA about a software product). I have also sought out advice from long-time Wikipedians. Please take a look at my [[User: DDcook/Article_draft|proposed replacement text]], which I hope you will agree is an unbiased and thoroughly cited improvement. Dan Cook 23:54, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

== [[Astrology software]] ==

Article needs help determining historically important developments and criteria for establishing notability of software packages and apps. - [[User:LuckyLouie|LuckyLouie]] ([[User talk:LuckyLouie|talk]]) 11:44, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
== [[GNU]] ==

There is a content dispute on {{article|GNU}} - the problem is basically where and how to put the current usability status of GNU in the article lead. There is a long discussion between me and [[User:Cyclopia|Cyclopia]] on the talk page about that and it seems we're unable to reach a compromise. Expert attention would help. Thanks. [[User:Yworo|Yworo]] ([[User talk:Yworo|talk]]) 23:54, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

== [[WP:AFD|AfD]] nomination of [[VGASAVE]] ==

<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|42px]]</div>This is to notify members of this WikiProject, within which scope this article falls, that [[VGASAVE]], has been listed for [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deletion]].  Editors interested in the deletion discussion, are invited to participate by adding your comments at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/{{str trim|VGASAVE (2nd nomination)}}]].  Thank you. - [[User:Ahunt|Ahunt]] ([[User talk:Ahunt|talk]]) 11:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
== [[WP:AFD|AfD]] nomination of [[Software archaeology]] ==

<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|42px]]</div>This is to notify members of this WikiProject, within which scope this article falls, that [[Software archaeology]], has been listed for [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deletion]].  Editors interested in the deletion discussion, are invited to participate by adding your comments at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Software archaeology]].  Thank you. - [[User:Radagast3|Radagast]][[Special:Contributions/Radagast3|<big><span style="color:green;">3</span></big>]] ([[User talk:Radagast3|talk]]) 01:04, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Software articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release ==

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team|Wikipedia 1.0 team]] for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone.  Articles were [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Article selection|selected based on their assessed  importance and quality]], then article ''versions'' (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the [[WikiTrust]] algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the [http://toolserver.org/~enwp10/bin/list2.fcgi?run=yes&namespace=0&pagename=&quality=&importance=&score=&limit=100&offset=1&sorta=Importance&sortb=Quality&filterRelease=on&reviewFilter=0&releaseFilter=1&projecta=Software Software articles and revisionIDs we have chosen]. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at '''[[Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8]]''' with the details.  You may wish to look at your WikiProject's [http://toolserver.org/~cbm/cgi-bin/problems.cgi articles with cleanup tags] and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at [[Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8]]. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010.  As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as [[One Laptop per Child]] and [http://schools-wikipedia.org/ Wikipedia for Schools] to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide.  Please help us, with [[Wikipedia_talk:Version_0.8|your WikiProject's feedback]]! 

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, [[User:SelectionBot|SelectionBot]] 23:37, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
== Development status of MuPAD ==

There is a discussion about the development status of [[MuPAD]] at [[Talk:MuPAD]], which people may be interested in.  [[User:Yaris678|Yaris678]] ([[User talk:Yaris678|talk]]) 08:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Second opinions about notability ==

Could I get some second opinions about [[Hamilton C shell]]? The only independent and reliable secondary source I see listed is [http://www.drdobbs.com/184408480;jsessionid=0FWMVJZJ5VZWNQE1GHPCKH4ATMY32JVN this one] by ''[[Dr. Dobb's Journal]]'' (not sure in which incarnation that source was in 1991). Other sources include a "[http://www.4gigs.com/2009/09/19/hamilton-c-shell-2009-the-missing-shell-for-windows/ personal website]", [http://www.faqs.org/faqs/unix-faq/shell/csh-whynot/ a FAQ] apparently produced by an individual,  and a bunch of mailing list postings: [http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2009-01/msg00461.html], [http://cygwin.com/faq/faq-nochunks.html#faq.api.fork], [http://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/highlights.html#ov-hi-files], [http://cygwin.com/faq/faq-nochunks.html#faq.using.accessing-drives]. The other references are by the developer of this software, Nicole Hamilton, who is obviously not independent of the subject (just as an autobiography would not be an independent source in one of our biographical articles). I think this one Dr. Dobb's source would not confer notability under the general notability guideline (which is what seems to apply to software products), but I wanted to make sure I'm right about that before taking it to AFD.--[[User:Chaser|Chaser]] ([[User talk:Chaser|talk]]) 17:58, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

BTW, [[C_shell#Influence]] may contain some relevant assertions. There are no new independent sources, however.--[[User:Chaser|Chaser]] ([[User talk:Chaser|talk]]) 18:05, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

:I've added a number of additional secondary sources (Middlesex News, PC Week, MIPS Magazine, BYTE, Software QA Magazine and Windows IT Pro) for a total of 7 traditional print sources ''about'' the product, spread over a roughly 10-year period.  I also found an iTunes audio link where the author speaks publicly about herself and her name change on a panel discussion at Stanford; she comes on at 29:37.  Advice here would help:  The author seems open about her history but it doesn't look to me like there are sources to make her notable.  BLP seems to favor discretion re: peripheral facts about a non-notable individual's personal life.  Otoh, it's impossible to make sense of the sources if you don't know about the name change.  So I've been struggling with how to treat this; right now, I have it in a citation.  Some of you with more experience must have seen how this is usually treated.

:Overall, I totally concede that the article is far from done and what's there isn't as good as I'd like or know it should be.  I'm new at this.  The only thing I've really done so far was a rewrite of the [[C shell]] article from  [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=C_shell&oldid=328501537 this] to what it is now.  I hope I made it better but realistically, I haven't gotten a lot of feedback.  I'm just learning, especially about how write for WP, how to document notability, the difference between a primary and a secondary source, how to achieve NPOV, etc.  I certainly make no claims to being at all good at any this!  But I want to get better.  Any helpful suggestions for improvement or help on the article itself will be greatly appreciated.  All I ask is [[WP:AGF|AGF]] and that you respect my [[WP:OUTING|anonymity]].  Cheers!  [[User:Msnicki|Msnicki]] ([[User talk:Msnicki|talk]]) 18:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

::My quick perusal of these sources indicates that they establish notability. I'll look at them more carefully the day after turkey day.--[[User:Chaser|Chaser]] ([[User talk:Chaser|talk]]) 20:59, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Thank you, Chaser.  [[User:Msnicki|Msnicki]] ([[User talk:Msnicki|talk]]) 21:50, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
== Recommended Structure for Software Articles ==

Does anyone know of any existing standards for the structure of software articles? Here's a recommendation for the structure of an article about a school, for example: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools/Article guidelines#Structure]].  And here's one for countries: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries#Structure and guidelines]]. And one for plays: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Theatre/Article Structure]]. It'd be great if we had guidelines like this for software. [[User:Simoneau|Matthew Simoneau]] ([[User talk:Simoneau|talk]]) 13:45, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:There are some very vague guidelines at [[WP:Notability (software)]] with a rejected request for expansion, but aside from that nothing much. Refer to manual of style. [[User:Noian|<span style="color:red;">'''&eta;oian'''</span>]] [[User talk:Noian|<small><span style="color:MediumSeaGreen;">''&Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers''</span></small>]] 11:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Alleyway ==

The usage of [[alleyway]] is under discussion, see  [[Talk:Alleyway#Requested_move]]  --  [[Special:Contributions/65.95.14.34|65.95.14.34]] ([[User talk:65.95.14.34|talk]]) 08:45, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
== Software Quality Assurance Article: A Proposal to Move Forward ==

Updating this article seems to have stalled. Here is a proposal to move forward. The Software Process and Product Quality Assurance group at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) are significant practitioners and authorities on SQA. They are well aware that SQA is a somewhat contentious subject and have offered to draft a neutral article on the current understanding and practice of SQA for Wikipedia. This may be a good way to move forward as they are a credible source without any commercial interests or biases towards or against standards (e.g. ISO) and methods. Before they expend effort on this, they would like to get some indication of interest from the community and if they would be accepted as a credible and neutral source of information on SQA. [[User:Dport|Dport]] ([[User talk:Dport|talk]]) 19:04, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

:Why not? (can't believe no one replied to this) [[User:Noian|<span style="color:red;">'''&eta;oian'''</span>]] [[User talk:Noian|<small><span style="color:MediumSeaGreen;">''&Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers''</span></small>]] 20:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

== Question ==

Is there a list of recently deleted software articles? I want to know so that I can see if I can find sources and request their undeletion. [[User:Joe Chill|Joe Chill]] ([[User talk:Joe Chill|talk]]) 22:48, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

:No idea, I would look st recent AfD's with software tags. [[User:Noian|<span style="color:red;">'''&eta;oian'''</span>]] [[User talk:Noian|<small><span style="color:MediumSeaGreen;">''&Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers''</span></small>]] 20:23, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

== Software development ==

It sounds like computer programming and software development fall under the scope of this project. Is that correct? If no one objects, I'd like to add those to the description of the scope. --[[User:Pnm|Pnm]] ([[User talk:Pnm|talk]]) 00:44, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

:[[WP:BOLD|Policy]] supports your position. [[User:Noian|<span style="color:red;">'''&eta;oian'''</span>]] [[User talk:Noian|<small><span style="color:MediumSeaGreen;">''&Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers''</span></small>]] 20:25, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

::This is the project scope at present:
::::WikiProject Software is a collection of pages devoted to the management of computer software articles on Wikipedia.

::::We aim to help set up standards of organization and presentation for articles on:
::::* All articles dealing with software
::::* Articles dealing with Software Vulnerabilities and Exploitation (Viruses, Adware, Spyware, etc.) 
::::* Articles dealing with Software Security tools 
::::* Articles dealing with Information Security issues 
::::* Articles dealing with free software

::Adding software development is significant (it's only ''silently'' implied). A small fraction of the software development articles are tagged with this project now. There are a lot of them. They're significantly more technical than the other articles in this project scope.

::If software development ''is'' in the scope of WP Software, I'd like to modify the template so software dev articles can be more easily categorized. I think we should also affirm that ''software development'' is the best term to use (vs. the more specific ''computer programming'', for example). We should also examine the related category [[:Category:Software development]].

::(I do think it's [[WP:BOLD#Wikipedia_namespace|worth discussing before changing]].) --[[User:Pnm|Pnm]] ([[User talk:Pnm|talk]]) 23:01, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

== Computing importance no longer defaults to Software importance ==

Articles tagged using {{tl|WikiProject Software}} will retain their Software importance, but will no longer get assigned a general computing importance unless one is provided explicitly using <code>computing-importance=</code>.

When assessing articles for the Software project, please consider the computing importance and tag accordingly. For articles which also have a {{tl|WikiProject Computing}} banner, its <code>importance=</code> must match the Software <code>computing-importance=</code>.

This will help WP Computing in three ways:
# Improve the accuracy of importance assessments for general computing
# Avoid unexpected changes to the Computing importance that result from changing the Software importance
# Bring attention to the parameter for general computing importance, reducing the likelihood of articles accidently being listed in multiple Computing importance categories. (This causes false entries in the [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Computing articles by quality log|Computing reassessment log]] – see discussion at [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Computing/Assessment#List_of_completed_reassessments|WP:COMP/A]] – and likely other problems as well.) --[[User:Pnm|Pnm]] ([[User talk:Pnm|talk]]) 04:06, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
== New article request ==

[[UltraSurf]], discussed in depth (along with the [[Global Internet Freedom Consortium]]) in {{citation |title=Over, Under & Through: How Dissidents Punch Holes in China's Great Firewall — And Evade the Cyberpolice  |last=Beiser |first=Vincent |journal=[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]] |volume=18 |issue=11 |date=October 2010 |pages=178-186 }}.  Probably other sources out there too.  Not my subject area, so I'm hoping someone better versed might be interested.  Cheers, '''[[User:Postdlf|postdlf]]''' (''[[User talk:Postdlf|talk]]'') 15:13, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
:Does it meet [[WP:NOTABLITY]]? If so you could create an article with references. Make sure you use the <nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki> tags to cite your sources. --[[User:Tyw7#pic|<i style="font-family:Kristen ITC; color:green;">Tyw7</i>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;([[User_talk:Tyw7#skip_here|☎ Contact me!]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Tyw7|Contributions]]) &nbsp;&nbsp;''Changing the world one [[WP:edit|edit]] at a time!'' 14:19, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== Software development process/methodology merger proposal ==

People may be interested in [[Talk:Software development process#Proposal to merge Software development methodology here v2]].  [[User:Yaris678|Yaris678]] ([[User talk:Yaris678|talk]]) 19:44, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
== Proposal to merge [[Software license agreement]] into [[Software license]] ==

I'd appreciate more input on this [[Talk:Software_license_agreement#Merge_with_article_.22Software_license.22|merge discussion]]. It began in 2006 and I'd like to get it closed, but there isn't consensus for a merge or a rationale for disambiguating the topics. --[[User:Pnm|Pnm]] ([[User talk:Pnm|talk]]) 18:26, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Editorial dispute at [[Talk:Comparison_of_platform_virtual_machines#Hyper-V_2008_R2_SP1_3D_acceleration_dispute|Comparison of platform virtual machines]] ==

I would like to request editorial assistance in arriving at consensus on the appropriate state of the article [[Comparison of platform virtual machines]]. Please see the [[Talk:Comparison_of_platform_virtual_machines#Hyper-V_2008_R2_SP1_3D_acceleration_dispute|discussion so far]]. Psuedonym 03:54, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
== [[Garant]] ==

I just stumbled upon this unreferenced article. I'm not a software guy and don't edit in this area. Thought you all might know what do with it. Best.[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 08:12, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I just added a notability tag. [[User:Guymacon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guymacon|talk]]) 21:47, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

== ACCPAC ==

[[ACCPAC]] has been nominated for deletion. [[Special:Contributions/65.93.12.101|65.93.12.101]] ([[User talk:65.93.12.101|talk]]) 05:16, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
== RfC on the use of terminology like “[[GiB]]” (gibibyte) on Wikipedia ==

'''Notice:''' An RFC is being conducted here at '''[[Talk:Hard_disk_drive#RFC_on_the_use_of_the_IEC_prefixes|Talk:Hard diskdrive#RFC on the use of the IEC prefixes]]'''. The debate under consideration is the use in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hard_disk_drive&oldid=423180773#Capacity this table] of the “[[Hard disk drive]]” article of nomenclature such as “KiB”, “MiB”, and “GiB” to describe capacities. The governing guideline on MOSNUM is [[Wikipedia:MOSNUM#Quantities_of_bytes_and_bits|Quantities of bytes and bits]]. The quality of the discussion can be improved by broadening participation of the discussion. This will hopefully more fully achieve a consensus. [[User:Greg L|Greg L]] ([[User talk:Greg L|talk]]) 17:55, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

== Content of Infobox software - how many software releases to show? ==

Is there any best practice for the number of software releases that should be show in the "latest release version" parameter of the {{tl|Infobox software}} template? I ask, because one editor is defending the display of four separate release version numbers at [[PostgreSQL]]. We have argued at [[Talk:PostgreSQL]] that only the current version of the latest release should be shown (which is after all what the parameter is named), as is currently the case in articles such as [[MySQL]], [[Firefox]], [[Joomla]], [[Ubuntu (operating system)]] etc., all of which have multiple releases but he is having none of it. In an attempt to gain some consensus I would appreciate opinions from members of this project (who are very welcome to shoot me down if I'm the one who is wrong). --[[User:Simple Bob|Simple Bob<sup> a.k.a. The Spaminator</sup>]] ([[User talk:Simple Bob|Talk]]) 20:11, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
== Team Software Process Revisions ==

I am writing on behalf of the Carnegie Mellon Software Engineering Institute (SEI). We have noted that the Team Software Process page is in need of updating.  It is noted on the Team Software Process page that "This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (April 2011)." The technical staff at the SEI has also uncovered several factual inaccuracies on the page.

In an attempt to help address these shortcomings and to ensure the page is accurate and up-to-date, we recommend that a number of factual updates and citations be made. We first and foremost welcome and encourage edits from the community. Please note that any edits made by the SEI will be sourced, justified factual changes that are made with the best interests of the Wikipedia community in mind.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/128.237.28.14|128.237.28.14]] ([[User talk:128.237.28.14|talk]]) 15:18, 24 June 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Discussion about title of Unix shell article ==

People watching this page may be interested in contributing to the discussion at [[Talk:Bash (Unix shell)#Further discussion]]. Cheers. -[[User:GTBacchus|GTBacchus]]<sup>([[User talk:GTBacchus|talk]])</sup> 05:27, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
== [[Template:Infobox Windows component]] ==

I'm considering adapting this useful template for more generic usage. Currently, {{'}}''A component of [[Microsoft Windows]]''{{'}} is included by default. Adding an extra parameter would allow its use for components of other OSes. Perhaps there's already a suitable template available, in which case I'd be interested to know. If not, I think the template could be adapted in either of the following ways:
#New template based on {{tl|Infobox Windows component}}, but including a new parameter <tt>parent_os</tt> or similar, along with any other changes deemed appropriate.
#Move {{tl|Infobox Windows component}} to {{tl|Infobox OS component}}, again after including the new parameter. If the parameter isn't present (or is blank) the template could default to the current [[Microsoft Windows]] statement. This would ensure existing usage (via redirects) isn't broken.
Thoughts? --[[User:Trevj|Trevj]] ([[User talk:Trevj|talk]]) 14:12, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

: I'd rather we simply did away with it entirely to be honest and just used {{tl|infobox software}} for all of them. It doesn't really make sense to maintain two separate levels of abstraction for these software components when there are only ~200 articles using the system. [[user:thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] - [[user talk:thumperward|talk]] 13:22, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

== ZextCMS ==

Hello, please help on how to fix this following article; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZextCMS
and also remove old article from; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zext
Thank you.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Tuxwire|Tuxwire]] ([[User talk:Tuxwire|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tuxwire|contribs]]) 09:26, 1 July 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== PackML ==

Not too sure if this is the right project, but someone may want to take a look at '''[[PackML]]'''. It was written by the organization behind the 'product'. I have no idea what this talks about, but it's pretty clear it needs cleanup, a proper layout, a proper lead, etc. It seems to contain original research too, but I'm not sure. If anyone wants to take a look, and maybe initiate conversation with the user who created it (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:CharlieEchoTango&oldid=441394791 bottom message]), it would be appreciated. Cheers - [[User:CharlieEchoTango|CharlieEchoTango]] ([[User talk:CharlieEchoTango|talk]]) 19:13, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


== Software Engineering Institute ==

Hello, I am an employee on the corporate communications team at the Carnegie Mellon Software Engineering Institute (SEI). I’m seeking help in updating the outdated information that is currently in the [[Software_Engineering_Institute]] Wikipedia article. I’ve included links to several resources below that contain information about the SEI and programs, and technologies. Please feel free to consult these sources as you are making updates to the article.

Thank you for your help, Dana

• Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10182/1069538-28.stm

• eWeek: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Software-Engineering-Institute-Contract-Renewed-466589/

• Dr. Dobb’s Journal: http://drdobbs.com/222301637

• PCWorld: http://www.pcworld.com/article/216936/when_trusted_IT_people_go_bad.html?tk=rss_news

• Government Info Security: http://www.govinfosecurity.com/podcasts.php?podcastID=465

• Software Integrity Blog: http://blog.coverity.com/uncategorized/interview-with-robert-seacord-head-of-the-secure-coding-initiative-at-cert/

• Bank Info Security: http://www.bankinfosecurity.com/podcasts.php?podcastID=823

• On Software Engineering: http://onsoftwareengineering.com/2010/12/03/cmmi-version-1-3-and-agile/

• About.com: http://adulted.about.com/od/learningorganizations/a/seicertificationatcarnegiemellon.htm

--CMUSEI (talk)  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:CMUSEI|CMUSEI]] ([[User talk:CMUSEI|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CMUSEI|contribs]]) 15:20, 10 August 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== HP TeMIP Software: notability and referencing concerns ==

Hello all,

Would any interested parties here like to take a look at [[HP TeMIP Software]]? I landed on it from the Random Article link yesterday, and one thing that jumped out at me was its complete lack of references (no Reference section, no inline citations, not even an External Links section). I added the References maintenance tag and [http://www.google.com/search?q=HP+TeMIP+Software+-wikipedia&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=HP+TeMIP+Software+-wikipedia&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=cAq&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&ei=8eRgTs_mB8LlsQLcytgP&start=20&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.&fp=bdc9b0269213fa8f&biw=1680&bih=900 Googled] to find some reliable sources, but I honestly couldn't find one that fit the [[WP:RS|guidelines]], so I then added the Notability template too. I realize Google isn't everything, so I brought this here in case anybody might know how to source this article; as it stands now, I don't know that it could pass a deletion discussion.

I've outlined all this on the talk page too. Cheers, [[User:Northumbrian|Northumbrian]] ([[User talk:Northumbrian|talk]]) 14:30, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[HP TeMIP Software]] ==

[[Image:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|48px|]]

The article [[HP TeMIP Software]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32; because of the following concern:
:'''The article fails to meet the [[WP:GNG|general notability guideline]]; unable to find significant coverage in secondary sources.'''

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:HP TeMIP Software|the article's talk page]].

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify -->

This notification pertains to the topic I started above. If an interested editor associated with the software project wishes to contest the deletion by removing the proposed deletion tag and then supplying the secondary sources that the article requires, please feel free to do so. [[User:Northumbrian|Northumbrian]] ([[User talk:Northumbrian|talk]]) 21:23, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
== Discussion at Talk:Bundled software#Redirect ==

[[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]] You are invited to join the discussion at [[Talk:Bundled software#Redirect]]. {{#if:|{{{more}}}}} [[User:Trevj|Trevj]] ([[User talk:Trevj|talk]]) 11:08, 26 September 2011 (UTC)<!--Template:Please see-->

== [[Ürban PAD]] ==

I was seriously considering CSDing this as advertising, bearing in mind the huge lack of RS I can find on it (see talk page).  There seems to have been a lot of activity spamming it around forum sites very recently, including mention of targets for shipping it out .... I'm going to tag it as probably lacking notability, and PROD it, instead of going the CSD route.  If any of you can find some decent RS for it, though, and maybe re-write it, please go ahead! [[User:ThatPeskyCommoner| <span style="color:#003300; font-family: cursive;">'''Pesky'''</span>]] ([[User talk:ThatPeskyCommoner|<span style="color:#336600;">talk</span>]] …[[Special:Contributions/ThatPeskyCommoner|''stalk!'']]) 06:55, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks for the notice. I prefer being neutral myself at this time. But I also do not see anything stopping you from deleting the article if you reported it. If anything more important came up, please feel free to notify us so that project members can act in case of need. [[User:FleetCommand|Fleet Command]] ([[User talk:FleetCommand|talk]]) 09:08, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
== Citing a WinHelp manual ==

Not sure if this project is still active, but I thought I'd ask this question anyway. I'm working on the article [[British Open Championship Golf]], and I've run across a complication: its manual is a [[WinHelp]] file. I have no idea how to properly cite one of these, but [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#Citing a WinHelp manual|User:Jinnai suggested]] that someone in this project might have had a similar problem in the past. Anyone have some advice? [[User:JimmyBlackwing|JimmyBlackwing]] ([[User talk:JimmyBlackwing|talk]]) 04:34, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

== Latest Android release: doubts and controversy ==

Hi all, there seems to be a dispute on the [[Talk:Android (operating system)#Latest_release|Android talk page]]... Basically, two editors do not agree that a release of the source code counts as a release of the software... I disagree, so I would like to invite anyone with some skills [[Talk:Android (operating system)#Latest_release|to that debate]]. Regards --[[User:SF007|SF007]] ([[User talk:SF007|talk]]) 06:42, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

:This has been resolved per {{diff|Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Software|461384070|461240179|this edit}}. --[[User:Pnm|Pnm]] ([[User talk:Pnm|talk]]) 18:22, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
== Overly Enthusiastic Portalizing? ==

I was advised at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28miscellaneous%29#Overly_Enthusiastic_Portalizing.3F The Village Pump] to ask the following question here. If this is the wrong place, please let me know.

[[User:Sbmeirow]] recently added a portal box to software testing to a number of pages about computer hardware, such as [[ARM Cortex-M3]], [[Single-board microcontroller]] and [[Embedded system]]. These appear to have only a tenuous connection to software testing. I don't want to accuse him of doing something wrong when I am unsure whether it actually ''is'' wrong, but it seems odd to list hardware in the software testing portal. Do these pages belong? --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 16:23, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

:I think fwiw that those interested in the Software Testing portal should be able to provide a description of the sorts of pages they intend to add the portal link to, for discussion here. Like Guy, I think it is not appropriate to link to the portal from any old IT-related page, such as the examples given above. I would have expected to see links limited to articles ''directly'' related to software testing, rather than - such as these - only indirectly related. There's a point at which such links become somewhat spammish. --[[User:Tagishsimon|Tagishsimon]] [[User_talk:Tagishsimon|(talk)]] 16:35, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

::[[User:Sbmeirow]] has been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sbmeirow#Overly_Enthusiastic_Portalizing.3F Invited to join this discussion]. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 16:43, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

:::Microcontrollers and microprocessors are hardware devices that runs software programs, thus you can't hard group them into either a hardware-only bucket or software-only bucket.  All ARM cores are purely "software-ish" descriptions of a CPU core until they converted into silicon, heck even VHDL and Verilog are technically software but typically only hardware engineers use those languages.  If the articles in question where resistors or capacitors, then obviously software related portal don't belong on them, but though CPU devices are hardware things they are useless without software.  Since those articles involve both hardware and software, I thought it would be useful to readers to have a portal of each.  I wish there was an embedded portal, because that would have been the prefered choice for all of them.  In response to spamish, if people think they are spam, then the entire portal concept should be removed from all of wikipedia.  Though most put portals in the "see also" section, I prefer to put them in "external links" section so they don't stand out so much, and "external links" is where I put them in city and school articles.  When searching for a software type portal, I didn't research the "software testing" portal, it more of sounded useful for embedded development.  If you don't like the "software testing" portal for those articles, then pick a better software type of portal in place of it.  • [[User:Sbmeirow|<span style="color:#8D38C9;">Sbmeirow</span>]] • [[User talk:Sbmeirow|<span style="color:#8D38C9;White;">Talk</span>]] •  22:16, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

::::If the topic isn't covered in the portal, it shouldn't be on the page. Agree that most IT-related articles are not sufficiently related. --[[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 02:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

::::: This is a trivial issue to me and not important enough for me to care.  If I made a mistake, just fix it or ask why I did it.  The above person should have either deleted my change or contacted me directly instead of making public discusion as the first point of contact.  • [[User:Sbmeirow|<span style="color:#8D38C9;">Sbmeirow</span>]] • [[User talk:Sbmeirow|<span style="color:#8D38C9;White;">Talk</span>]] •  06:09, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

::::::My behavior was correct. All Wikipedia editors are subject to public discussion about their edits. As I wrote at the top of this thread, "I don't want to accuse him of doing something wrong when I am unsure whether it actually ''is'' wrong."  Asking whether it was wrong in the appropriate place -- and inviting you to comment -- was the right thing to do. Reverting your edits or criticizing you for making them when I wasn't sure whether they were wrong would have been incorrect behavior on my part. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 07:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

== Xara Xtreme LX ==

[[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]] You are invited to join the discussion at [[Talk:Xara Photo & Graphic Designer#Propose a merge from Xara Xtreme LX to the main article Xara Xtreme]]. {{#if:|{{{more}}}}} <span style="white-space:nowrap;">-- [[User:Trevj#top|Trevj]]</span> ([[User talk:Trevj#top|talk]]) 06:57, 27 November 2011 (UTC)<!--Template:Please see-->
== [[Plan 9 from Bell Labs]] nominated for GA ==

[[Plan 9 from Bell Labs]] article was nominated for GA review (at [[WP:GAN#COMP]]). Comments (and the review itself) are [[talk:Plan 9 from Bell Labs|welcome]]! — [[User:Czarkoff|Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]] ([[User talk:Czarkoff|talk]]) 13:17, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

== Mdadm how-to purge ==

I deleted a bunch of text from [[Mdadm]] that I do not consider appropriate for Wikipedia (per [[What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_manual.2C_guidebook.2C_textbook.2C_or_scientific_journal|What Wikipedia is not]]). An anonymous user expressed some rage about my action on the article's discussion page, so I figured I would bring the matter here for additional attention and appropriate discussion.[[User:Dfeuer|Dfeuer]] ([[User talk:Dfeuer|talk]]) 04:11, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
== Merge comments ==

Please comment on merge proposal at [[Talk:7-Zip]]. Thanks, [[User:Dondegroovily|<span style="color:red;">'''D&nbsp;O&nbsp;N&nbsp;D&nbsp;E'''</span>&nbsp;<small>groovily</small>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Dondegroovily|<span style="color:green;">Talk&nbsp;to&nbsp;me</span>]] 19:06, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

== API Classification ==

Hello, I assist in sorting stubs for [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub Sorting]]. Would an API (such as [[XQuery API for Java | this stub]]) be classified as a [[:Category:Computer programming tool stubs | computer programming tool]] or a [[:Category:Computer library stubs | computer library]]? I'm drawn to side of computer library, but I would like your opinion.--[[User:Yutsi|<b>Yutsi</b>]]  [[User_Talk:Yutsi|<sup><small>'''Talk'''</small></sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Yutsi|  <small>'''Contributions'''</small>]] 16:37, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
:I would tag it with {{tl|compu-prog-stub}} actually, as both libraries and tools should have some code at least. — [[User:Czarkoff|Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]] ([[User talk:Czarkoff|talk]]) 00:49, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
== Article split to Novell DOS (from DR-DOS) ==

[[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]] You are invited to join the discussion at [[Talk:Novell DOS#Split from DR-DOS]]. {{#if:|{{{more}}}}} <span style="white-space:nowrap;">-- [[User:Trevj#top|Trevj]]</span> ([[User talk:Trevj#top|talk]]) 07:01, 5 March 2012 (UTC)<!--Template:Please see-->

== Netscape pics ==

Several Netscape pictures have been nominated for deletion. You may be interested. See [[Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2012 March 17]]

[[Special:Contributions/65.92.181.184|65.92.181.184]] ([[User talk:65.92.181.184|talk]]) 03:29, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
== [[Backbone.js]] ==

This article is a one-liner about a Javascript library which I deleted after it was PRODded for lack of notability. That has been [[User talk:JohnCD#Deleted Backbone.js|queried on my talk page]] by a user who says it is important, even revolutionary, and has "''made most of my 10 years of web development experience obsolete''"; so I have restored it, invited him to expand it, and now post here in case anyone is interested in helping. [[User:JohnCD|JohnCD]] ([[User talk:JohnCD|talk]]) 16:50, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

:The closer project is [[WP:WEBSITES]] but it might get more attention at [[WP:COMP]]. As far as keeping the article, it does seem like an important topic, but it was just released in 2010. It's all over message boards and blogs but I couldn't easily find any [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. Might be too soon. It's briefly mentioned in [[DocumentCloud#Open_Source_Software]] and I took the liberty of merging it there. I think it may not meet [[WP:GNG]] at this time and figure the interested editors are better off adding the verifiable material they can find than navigating policy and Afd. It's obvious to me it'll be Wikipedia–notable eventually. --[[User:Pnm|Pnm]] ([[User talk:Pnm|talk]]) 17:46, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 
As community manager participating to many conferences and JavaScript meetups, I must say that backbone.js looks to interest a lot of people and it is a topic that is often proposed by speakers. I invite you to have a look on Lanyrd to get an idea: [http://lanyrd.com/search/?q=backbone.js Backbone.js search results on Lanyrd] [[User:Alexandre.Morgaut|Alexandre.Morgaut]] ([[User talk:Alexandre.Morgaut|talk]]) 13:00, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

== MindTouch move discussion ==

[[Talk:MindTouch Core#Requested move|The discussion]] about moving [[MindTouch Core]] to [[MindTouch]] (over redirect) is taking place. Opinions needed! — [[User:Czarkoff|Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]] ([[User talk:Czarkoff|talk]]) 11:32, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
== Chrome/Firefox ==

Why do we have one chrome article and endless versions of firefox floating around? Now firefox is on a rapid release schedule are we going to end up with many more articles breeding as versions come out thick and fast? --[[User:Cameron Scott|Cameron Scott]] ([[User talk:Cameron Scott|talk]]) 10:27, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

:Instead of creating multiple Firefox articles, we have combined all rapid releases into one rapid release article. Thanks <span style="background-color:#00CC99;padding:0 3px 0 3px;">[[User:Trewyy|<span><b><span style="color:red">ҭᴙᴇᴡ</span><span style="color:purple">ӌӌ</span></b></span>]]</span> 15:08, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

== Altoros AfD ==

I've started an [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Altoros|AfD discussion]] about [[Altoros]] article (software developer business) and quickly got overwhelmed with an amount of editors who have no contribution outside the topic, so that I'm now unable to judge on the process from an unbiased point of view. Please give a glance the article and state your opinion in the discussion. The more uninvolved people will come there, the less tricky it will be to judge on consensus, as currently the amount of people (as opposed to accounts) participating in discussion is IMHO very questionable. — [[User:Czarkoff|Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]] ([[User talk:Czarkoff|talk]]) 12:01, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

== Firefox article needs repair! ==

Hello WikiProject Software! The [[Firefox]] article is really outdated and in need of repair. It would be great if we could put together a team to help maintain it - or at least bring it up to date. Thanks <span style="background-color:#00CC99;padding:0 3px 0 3px;">[[User:Trewyy|<span><b><span style="color:red">ҭᴙᴇᴡ</span><span style="color:purple">ӌӌ</span></b></span>]]</span> 15:12, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
== xdvi ==

I've created a new article titled [[xdvi]].  It's still quite stubby.  Have fun improving and extending it. [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] ([[User talk:Michael Hardy|talk]]) 16:53, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

== Accounting Information System ==

5 Steps of accounting information system and work process  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/144.120.8.67|144.120.8.67]] ([[User talk:144.120.8.67|talk]]) 03:43, 29 May 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|Nomination for deletion]] of [[Template:LPR]] ==

[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:LPR]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:LPR|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> [[User:Frietjes|Frietjes]] ([[User talk:Frietjes|talk]]) 16:44, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|Nomination for deletion]] of [[Template:LSR]] ==

[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:LSR]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:LSR|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> [[User:Frietjes|Frietjes]] ([[User talk:Frietjes|talk]]) 16:44, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
== [[SUPER (software)]] ==

This program has issues with malware, etc. I have used it and agree. I am very happy using it, and just ignore or fix the issues on my versions. See the talk page and article history. It seems that some believe the article should have a 'controversy' section with RS. I don't know which RS are RS for computer software articles though. There is a little more detail about my issues with it on ref desk/computers--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 17:46, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

== RELAP5-3D ==

Anyone got an opinion on the new article [[RELAP5-3D]]?  I have just come across it.  I think it contains some stuff of value but as far as I can see there are 2 main issues:
#It is overly promotional
#It would probably be better to have an article about RELAP as a whole, with RELAP5-3D just being the latest version.  ([[RELAP]] is currently a redlink but [[Relap]] is a redirect to [[RELAP5-3D]])
However, I've not really worked on this sort of article before so I thought I'd get an opinion here.

[[User:Yaris678|Yaris678]] ([[User talk:Yaris678|talk]]) 09:15, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
== [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Saylor.org%27s_C%2B%2B_Programming C++ Textbook] ==

Hello all! I’m working with the Saylor foundation to create a series of original, crowd-sourced textbooks that will be openly licensed and freely available on the web and within Saylor’s free, self-paced courses at Saylor.org. We are using Wikibooks as a platform to host this project and hope to garner the interest of existing members of the Wikibooks and Wikipedia community, as well as bring in new members! We thought that some of your members may be interested in contributing to our book [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Saylor.org%27s_C%2B%2B_Programming Saylor.org's C++ Programming]. [[User:Azinheira|Azinheira]] ([[User talk:Azinheira|talk]]) 19:01, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

== RfC about wording and links in [[template:infobox software]] ==

The request for comments regarding recent changes in [[template:infobox software]] is filed at [[Template talk:Infobox software#RfC: natural and programming languages labels]]. Input would be very appreciated. —&nbsp;[[user:czarkoff|Dmitrij&nbsp;D. Czarkoff]] ([[user talk:czarkoff|talk]]) 11:57, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[RSD S.A.]] ==

[[Image:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|48px|]]

The article [[RSD S.A.]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32; because of the following concern:
:'''no indication of [[WP:NOTABILITY]]; written in a promotional manner'''

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:RSD S.A.|the article's talk page]].

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.252|76.65.128.252]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.252|talk]]) 11:31, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

== Folding@home is a FA candidate ==

I just thought I'd let everyone know that [[Folding@home]] is now a Featured Article candidate. Please feel free to leave comments and voice your opinion one way or the other. Hopefully together we can proceed through the nomination swiftly. Thanks, • [[User:Jesse V.|Jesse V.]][[User talk:Jesse V.|<sup>''(talk)''</sup>]] 14:25, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
== Review of FA status for [[Microsoft Security Essentials]] ==

I have challenged the decision to award this article FA status over what I allege is a lack of balance and neutrality in the article.  Fresh opinions and input are encouraged [[Wikipedia:Featured article review/Microsoft Security Essentials/archive1|here]]. [[User:Quantumsilverfish|Quantumsilverfish]] ([[User talk:Quantumsilverfish|talk]]) 01:41, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

== Discussion at [[Talk:Ubuntu (operating system)#Ubuntu as "Adware"]] ==

I have started an RFC at [[Talk:Ubuntu (operating system)#Ubuntu as "Adware"]]. Please join the discussion there. [[User:Elizium23|Elizium23]] ([[User talk:Elizium23|talk]]) 05:09, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
:I responded there. &bull; [[User:Jesse V.|Jesse V.]][[User talk:Jesse V.|<sup>''(talk)''</sup>]] 22:10, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

== Maple example code listings ==

I removed a large portion of the [[Maple (software)]] page  because I deemed it unfit for an encyclopedia. It was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maple_(software)&diff=520736984&oldid=520649399 inserted again] without further explanation. Am I missing something here? --[[User:Ysangkok|Ysangkok]] ([[User talk:Ysangkok|talk]]) 20:59, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

== Karl Wiegers ==

I'm thinking of creating an article about [http://www.karlwiegers.com/ Karl Wiegers], an author of several books on software requirements discipline. However, I'm not 100% sure the person meets the notability criteria. Could you help me define if it's true or not? --[[User:ViseMoD|ViseMoD]] ([[User talk:ViseMoD|talk]]) 18:59, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
* I've composed the [[Karl Wiegers|article]]. Please review it. --[[User:ViseMoD|ViseMoD]] ([[User talk:ViseMoD|talk]]) 19:34, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

== Version History ==

Hi all. Is there a manual-of-style or something for software articles? I ask as I just came across an article listing a piece of software's entire version history, which seemed to be in contravention of [[WP:IINFO]], but I couldn't find any software-related guidelines to confirm this. I removed it anyway - it was constituting 50% of the article and was obviously overkill - just wanted the response loaded if questioned! Cheers, '''[[User:Nikthestunned|<span style="color:MidnightBlue;">Nik</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Nikthestunned|<span style="color:CornflowerBlue;">''the''</span>]][[User talk:Nikthestunned|<span style="color:ForestGreen;">stunned</span>]]''' 12:58, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

: Hi Nik, which article are you referring to? Instaed of deleting, shortening down massively can solve problems. Many version history tables are reduced to "important" or "major" releases, skipping security & bugfix releases. Also, [[Help:Wikitable|Wikitable]]s can be made collapsible. For standardized display of release histories (& version stages), please consider [[Template:Version]]. It is etsablished in de:WP, I am introducing it to en:WP these days.  [[User:Jesus Presley|Jesus Presley]] ([[User talk:Jesus Presley|talk]]) 20:26, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

== Release histories - anal, banal, or encyclopaedic ==

Consider [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plesk&curid=11601463&diff=519641665&oldid=517387246 this edit] at [[Plesk]] which is two people arguing over whether a long and detailed revision history, including quarterly point-releases, actually belongs in the article. I tend to side with the deletionist - at the very least it should be trimmed to just the major releases. What do the members of this project think? Is there guidance in any of the computing/software projects? --[[User:Biker Biker|Biker Biker]] ([[User talk:Biker Biker|talk]]) 21:28, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
:Only the significant releases should be included. The citations can serve to provide the reader for more information. See [[WP:IINFO]] and to a lesser degree [[WP:N]]. &bull; [[User:Jesse V.|Jesse V.]][[User talk:Jesse V.|<sup>''(talk)''</sup>]] 22:04, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
::That pretty much sums up my own thoughts, thanks. --[[User:Biker Biker|Biker Biker]] ([[User talk:Biker Biker|talk]]) 22:19, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

: I agree. Can you help me introduce some of these guidelines to the [[Template:Version]] template? When I started introducing it to some articles, I stumbled upon many tables listing countless minor releases without description. "Keep it short" should be established as a style guide. Also, support my proposal at [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Computing]] [[User:Jesus Presley|Jesus Presley]] ([[User talk:Jesus Presley|talk]]) 20:31, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

== Request for comments: Establish standards for version history tables (or a styleguide) ==

I'd like to introduce the [[Template:Version]] template to the [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Computing|Computing styleguide]], with the goal to establish one standard for version history tables (or lists) on WP. It simplifies creation of release histories, standardizes release stages and makes the content more accessible: 
{| class="wikitable"
|- 
! Version
! Description
|-
| {{Version |o |1.0}}
| Old version
|-
| {{Version |co |1.8}}
| Older version, yet still supported
|-
| {{Version |c |2.0}}
| Current stable version
|-
| {{Version |p |3.0}}
| Future release
|}

Please comment on the [[Template talk:Version|template talk page]] (there already is some active discussion going on).  [[User:Jesus Presley|Jesus Presley]] ([[User talk:Jesus Presley|talk]]) 01:40, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

== Request for comments on lead sentence [[Domain-specific language]] article ==

Hi, could somebody comment [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Domain-specific_language#Lead_sentence_specification here]. Thank you. -- [[User:Mdd|Mdd]] ([[User talk:Mdd|talk]]) 14:26, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

== Revisions to Mindjet article ==

In recent weeks, I've been work on behalf of the company Mindjet, which makes mind-mapping software, to update their article here on Wikipedia. The article itself is relatively new, dating from earlier this year, and so the changes are fairly minor, despite a few big changes at the company. 

I previously posted a request for editors to review my changes over at WP:Companies, but no one from there has been able to take a look at the article yet. One neutral editor has weighed in on the [[Talk:Mindjet|talk page]], but would like input from other editors rather than making the changes unilaterally.

Given my COI on this request, I was hoping that someone here at WP:Software might be able to take a look at the changes that I've proposed over at [[Talk:Mindjet]] in order to reach a consensus about whether or not the changes seem appropriate and, if so, work with the other editor(s) to move the changes over into the mainspace.

If you have any feedback or concerns, please feel free to leave me a message here, over at [[Talk:Mindjet]], or at [[User_Talk:ChrisPond]]. Thanks! [[User:ChrisPond|ChrisPond]] ([[User talk:ChrisPond|Talk]] · [[User:ChrisPond|COI]]) 14:16, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

:[[File:Symbol confirmed.svg|16px]] Done [[User:ChrisPond|ChrisPond]] ([[User talk:ChrisPond|Talk]] · [[User:ChrisPond|COI]]) 22:53, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== [[Dog (Programming language)]] ==

Can we get some eyes on this? My personal interp is that it is new and therefore not notable and seems to be advertising. Was thinking about afd but figured I'd raise the question here before I do [[User:Hell in a Bucket|Hell In A Bucket]] ([[User talk:Hell in a Bucket|talk]]) 15:28, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
:AFD until establishes it's notability. &bull; [[User:Jesse V.|Jesse V.]][[User talk:Jesse V.|<sup>''(talk)''</sup>]] 20:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

== Updating Mindmanager software article ==

In recent weeks, I've been work on behalf of the company Mindjet to update the article for MindManager, one of their software products. There have been a number of rather significant changes over at Mindjet recently, and the current MindManager article is quite out of date.  

I posted a request for an editor to review the article on [[Talk:MindManager#Seeking_help_for_revisions_to_this_article|Talk:MindManager]]; you can also view my proposed draft in my userspace at [[User:ChrisPond/Mindjet (software)]]

Given my COI on this request, I was hoping that someone here at WP:Software might be able to review my draft and, if appropriate, make the changes that I discuss on [[Talk:MindManager]], including renaming the article and moving over the revised draft. I have also requested help for changes

If you have any feedback or concerns, please feel free to leave me a message here, over at [[Talk:MindManager]], or at [[User_Talk:ChrisPond]]. Thanks! [[User:ChrisPond|ChrisPond]] ([[User talk:ChrisPond|Talk]] · [[User:ChrisPond|COI]]) 14:56, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

:[[File:Symbol confirmed.svg|16px]] Done! [[User:ChrisPond|ChrisPond]] ([[User talk:ChrisPond|Talk]] · [[User:ChrisPond|COI]]) 16:29, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

== Invitation to help with iOS articles ==

If anyone is interested in iOS-related subjects, the articles [[iOS jailbreaking]], [[Cydia]], [[SHSH blob]], and [[Greenpois0n]] have a lot of active talk page discussions that would benefit from additional perspectives and opinions. A bunch of the discussions have been between just one other editor and me. Thanks! [[User:Dreamyshade|Dreamyshade]] ([[User talk:Dreamyshade|talk]]) 01:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

== Screenshots ==

Evening All! Following a [[Talk:Firefox#Change sidebar picture from FF running on Knoppix to Windows.|conversation/debate]] on the Firefox article regarding the screenshot, I have proposed a new section for the software screenshot guidelines. Basically, it's designed to deal with OS wars, and clarify the standard for what OS should display what screenshot (without being too rigid). Please would you have a quick look at my [[Wikipedia talk:Software screenshots#Proposed guideline (Infobox screenshot - operating system)|initial proposal]] and make suggestions, give feedback, and hopefully get things moving. I note from older talk sections there that this has previously been a topic of discussion, so hopefully we can clarify it sometime! Thanks. [[User:Sonicdrewdriver|drewmunn]] ([[User talk:Sonicdrewdriver|talk]]) 10:52, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

== Request for comment on [[Talk:Microsoft Office 2013#Retail editions locked to the first PC they are installed on]] ==

Hi.

There is a discussion about [[Talk:Microsoft Office 2013]] licensing terms in progress and we need someone with access to source to confirm or deny the problem.

Best regards,<br/>[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 10:27, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

== Style of {{t|LSR}} and {{t|LPR}} ==

Hi all,

after a style change of {{t|LSR}} there's a [[Template talk:LSR#Discussion|discussion]] on wether to keep the change and use it for {{t|LPR}} too, revert it or develop an alternative design for both. Some constructive feedback for the discussion would be welcome.

Furthermore you're invited to [[Template talk:LSR#Poll|leave a vote]] for your favourite design or express your opposition against the others. -- [[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87|talk]]) 20:41, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

== Transformation ==

Please see [[WT:PHYSICS]], where a discussion on creating an article on "transformation" is occurring. -- [[Special:Contributions/65.92.180.137|65.92.180.137]] ([[User talk:65.92.180.137|talk]]) 21:42, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

== File:Xfce-logo-big.png ==

[[:File:Xfce-logo-big.png]] has been nominated for deletion. (are we allowed to use LGPL images?) -- [[Special:Contributions/65.92.180.137|65.92.180.137]] ([[User talk:65.92.180.137|talk]]) 22:48, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

== WikiProject Apps Proposal ==

A proposal for a WikiProject Apps has been made at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Apps]]. As WikiProject Software is a related WikiProject, members of this WikiProject are invited to join the discussion. Thank you. [[User:XapApp|XapApp]] ([[User talk:XapApp|talk]]) 02:20, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

== Discussion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_April_8#Category:Apps ==

[[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]] You are invited to join the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_April_8#Category:Apps]]. {{#if:|{{{more}}}}} [[User:Obiwankenobi|Obi-Wan Kenobi]] ([[User talk:Obiwankenobi|talk]]) 07:10, 15 April 2013 (UTC)<!--Template:Please see-->

== [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|Nomination for deletion]] of [[Template:Active]] ==

[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:Active]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Active|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> I'm only notifying this WikiProject because the template is in Category:Software templates. Feel free to remove this message from this talk page. <small>[[User:XapApp|XapApp]] · [[User talk:XapApp|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/XapApp|contribs]]</small> 08:11, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

== OpenEmuHeroScreenshot.jpg ==

[[:image:OpenEmuHeroScreenshot.jpg]] has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/65.94.76.126|65.94.76.126]] ([[User talk:65.94.76.126|talk]]) 05:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

== File:LG-WebOS.png ==

[[:File:LG-WebOS.png]] has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/65.94.76.126|65.94.76.126]] ([[User talk:65.94.76.126|talk]]) 07:13, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

== Couple App page, request for addition ==

Hi, 
My name is Alan and I"m the marketing director at Couple. As to avoid any conflict I'm submitting to the community a request to add feature information to our page. Factual information only as follows: 

1+ million downloads (crossed the 1m threshold in March: http://thenextweb.com/apps/2013/03/23/the-personal-social-network-couples-celebrates-its-one-year-anniversary-with-1-million-users/ )
Apple editors choice award (February 2013)
Google Play staff pick (May 2013) 
 
Features include:
·      Private timeline to build a shared history & remember all your special moments
·  	Real-time messaging to express yourself through sharing videos, voice messages, and photo (with photo filters too!)
·  	Send Secrets: private photos that no one else can see; even set them to disappear!
·  	ThumbKiss™ when you want to be close: whether next door across continents touch the same spot on your phones to make them both light up and vibrate simultaneously
·  	Sketch together in real-time: draw together simultaneously from a thousand miles away!
·  	Make phone calls or Facetime from insite the app
·  	Share to-do lists: real-time syncing from new date ideas to remembering milk at the store
·  	Calendar reminders: schedule dates, automatic notification of birthdays, anniversaries, and important dates
·  	Instantly share locations
·  	Cross platform support
 
Contact info:
Website: www.couple.me
Support: http://support.couple.me/
Twitter: @CoupleApp
Pintrest: pinterest.com/coupleapp
Instagram: instagram.com/coupleapp 

Please contact me ( alan@tenthbit.com ) with any questions, concerns, edits, etc. 

Thanks for your help

--[[Special:Contributions/67.180.211.176|67.180.211.176]] ([[User talk:67.180.211.176|talk]]) 23:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

:As far as I can tell, your app is not notable in any way, and we only cover notable subjects. Sorry! <span style='border-bottom:1px solid #09F'>&nbsp;[[User:Sonicdrewdriver|drewmunn]]&nbsp;<span style='border-left:1px solid #09F; border-top:1px solid #09F; border-bottom:1px solid #FFF'>&nbsp;[[User talk:Sonicdrewdriver|talk]]&nbsp;</span></span> 06:07, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

== Mozilla Portal ==

<nowiki>{{portal|Mozilla}}</nowiki> 
[[Portal:Mozilla]] has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/65.94.76.126|65.94.76.126]] ([[User talk:65.94.76.126|talk]]) 08:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

== {{tl|LSR}} Google Spreadsheets ==

[[Template:Latest stable release/Google Spreadsheets]] and [[Template:Latest stable software release/Google Spreadsheets]] have been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/65.94.76.126|65.94.76.126]] ([[User talk:65.94.76.126|talk]]) 02:30, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


== Request for comments on [[Avalanche_model]] ==

This article has been tagged as unreferenced since Feb 2012, and I can't find the term "avalanche model" used in this way other than on Wikipedia. [[User:Rattle|Rattle]] ([[User talk:Rattle|talk]]) 22:58, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

== Windows 8.1 ==

Morning all! This kind of stems from a conversation we've had at the screenshot guidelines, but I'd like to expand it here in light of the [[Windows 8]] article and its content. It was decided at the screenshots page that we should not allow screenshots of pre-release software unless they're from a reliable source (news site etc) and we're noting that they have been reported. The Windows 8 page now has a [[Windows 8#Windows 8.1|whole section]] devoted to the upcoming 8.1, a large percentage of which lists updates evident in leaked builds. My question is whether this information should be included (it does cite news articles), and if so, how the wording could be improved. Anyway, that's all for now! <span style='border-bottom:1px solid #09F'>&nbsp;[[User:Sonicdrewdriver|drewmunn]]&nbsp;<span style='border-left:1px solid #09F; border-top:1px solid #09F; border-bottom:1px solid #FFF'>&nbsp;[[User talk:Sonicdrewdriver|talk]]&nbsp;</span></span> 06:31, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

== Blackboard Inc. ==

Greetings all, I am looking for help with a request for the '''[[Blackboard Inc.]]''' article. Important to disclose: I am working on behalf of Blackboard Inc. to improve this article and address problems described by the warning tags currently in place. Because of my COI I will not make any edits to the article in the main space, hence my interest in finding other editors to review and, eventually, move a draft once consensus is reached.

I have been working on this new draft in my user space for awhile now and I am ready for other editors to review what I've prepared. If this is something you'd like to help with please take a look at the request on the [[Talk:Blackboard_Inc.#Addressing_problems_related_to_tag_on_current_version|Blackboard Inc. Talk page]] and my draft in my user space here: [[User:WWB_Too/Blackboard_Inc._(2013_revision)]]. For anyone who is able to help, probably best to reply to me on the article's Talk page, which I have watchlisted. If anyone feels my draft needs additional changes, I'm very open to discussing that as well. Cheers, [[User:WWB_Too|WWB Too]] ([[User talk:WWB_Too|Talk]] · [[User:WWB_Too|COI]]) 16:37, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

== [[Mocana]] ==

I just created an article about my company, Mocana.  I've made every effort to source all the information and present it in a neutral tone, but would certainly welcome any feedback. --[[User:Wurtis65|Wurtis65]] ([[User talk:Wurtis65|talk]]) 19:55, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

:Another user has raised questions about notability and neutrality of this article; I would appreciate any independent perspectives.--[[User:Wurtis65|Wurtis65]] ([[User talk:Wurtis65|talk]]) 22:18, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

== Help with Freddie A. Laker article ==

Back in early June I helped create an article for '''[[Freddie A. Laker]]''', the founder of the software company [[Guide (software company)|Guide]]. I'm now looking for help with three small updates to the article.

I'm asking here because my work on the project has been as a paid consultant to Guide. I've only edited the draft in my user space and now that the article has been moved live, after review through AfC, I would like to avoid making any edits to the article myself. I've left a more detailed note on the article's [[Talk:Freddie_A._Laker|Talk page]] explaining the changes I'm hoping to have made. Please take a look if you're able to help. Thanks, [[User:16912_Rhiannon|16912 Rhiannon]] ([[User talk:16912_Rhiannon|Talk]] · [[User:16912_Rhiannon|COI]])  16:13, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

== Volkswriter 2.2.jpg ==

[[:image:Volkswriter 2.2.jpg]] has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 08:12, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

== MS Word for deletion ==

Several screenshots of MSWord are up for deletion, see [[Wikipedia:Files_for_deletion/2013_July_27]] -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 04:47, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

:Thanks for the info. [[User:Monterey Bay|Monterey Bay]] ([[User talk:Monterey Bay|talk]]) 04:48, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Also, more screenshots from [[Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2013 July 26]] -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 04:58, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

== Final Cut Pro ==

Hi All! Would you mind popping over to the [[Talk:Final Cut Pro#FCP and FCPX|Final Cut Pro talk page]], where I've started an RfC on the differentiation between the eponymous software and Final Cut Pro X? Your views are very much welcome. Thanks in advance! <span style='border-bottom:1px solid #09F'>&nbsp;[[User:Sonicdrewdriver|drewmunn]]&nbsp;<span style='border-left:1px solid #09F; border-top:1px solid #09F; border-bottom:1px solid #FFF'>&nbsp;[[User talk:Sonicdrewdriver|talk]]&nbsp;</span></span> 12:06, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

== Newton logo.png ==

[[:image:Newton logo.png]] has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 05:15, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

== P:Freeware ==

{{portal|Freeware}} [[Portal:Freeware]] has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 06:11, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

== [[Umple]] and [[Executable UML]]; request for further comment ==

Last month in the [[Executable UML]] article a link was added to [[Umple]] in the "See also" section (see  [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Executable_UML&diff=563566962&oldid=555159573 here]), which was undone (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Executable_UML&diff=563566962&oldid=555159573 here]) and restored (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Executable_UML&diff=563812332&oldid=563805884 here]), etc... And since then there is a dispute about this link, see [[Talk:Executable_UML#Umple_and_Executable_UML]]. I hereby request for further comments on this matter on the Executable UML talk-page, thanks you -- [[User:Mdd|Mdd]] ([[User talk:Mdd|talk]]) 10:58, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

== Notepad2Icon.png ==

[[:image:Notepad2Icon.png]] has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 03:54, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

== Just a heads-up ==

I submitted a WikiProject proposal for [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Vocaloid|'''Project Vocaloid''']], which is, as the name implies, a project focused on Vocaloid-related articles, their improvement, and the addition of Vocaloid-related articles that currently do not exist. Since the Vocaloid/2/3 engines and the voicebanks for them fall under the term "software", I just came by to inform the project of its (potentially) being listed as a related project.

I wanted to make this an entirely new project because Vocaloid has many things related to it that would fall under several projects' jurisdictions. For example, tools used for Vocaloid animation (such as [[MikuMikuDance]]) or vocal synthesis (such as the [[Vocaloid]] engine) could fall under this project's scope, due to their both being pieces of software, but pages like [[MikuMikuDance]] would also fall under [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Animation|WikiProject Animation]]'s watch, due to the software being a tool used for 3D animation, as well as being both a piece of software, and being related to Vocaloid. WikiProject Vocaloid would simply unify them all under one general category covering an entire topic.

I just wanted to give the project a heads-up that it'll (potentially) be shown in the "Related Projects" section of another WikiProject.

Have a nice day!
<span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 2px #8FD0CF">[[User:N_Studios_2|<span style="color:#16C1B8;">N</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/N_Studios_2|<span style="color:#16C1B8;">Studios</span>]] [[User talk:N_Studios_2|<span style="color:#16C1B8;">2</span>]]</span> 22:52, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

== Minesweeper ==

FYI, there is an RfC opened at [[talk:Microsoft Minesweeper]] -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 10:11, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

== VirtualMachineManager.png ==

[[:image:VirtualMachineManager.png]] has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 06:48, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

== Mobile Apps wikiproject ==

{{tb|WT:WikiProject Apps}}
-- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 07:46, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

== Screenshot of Style Jukebox on Galaxy Nexus.png ==

[[:image:Screenshot of Style Jukebox on Galaxy Nexus.png]] has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 13:32, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

== Python 3.3.2 reference document.pdf ==

[[:file:Python 3.3.2 reference document.pdf]] has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.222|76.65.128.222]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.222|talk]]) 03:39, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

== New to Wiki Editing, going to overhaul the LabVIEW page ==

Hi all,

Myself and some other LabVIEW enthusiasts are keen to see the LabVIEW article brought up to speed and generally overhauled. It seems dated, a little subjective, it's certainly incomplete and less than complimentary.

We wish to conduct our modernization of the content objectively and sensibly, and expect a large proportion of the existing content to get modified.
The current structure is not to our approval, so we wish to move sections about and move content between sections to accommodate a revised breakdown (something more akin to the MATLAB page perhaps, which appears to be better maintained).

Can I ask what the best approaches might be for us regarding these changes? We don't wish to spend a lot of effort performing adjustments to see them reversed by an auditor because they're too massive. Is there a generally accepted strategy for making major changes to a Wiki page?

Thanks in advance for any advice received,

ThoricCLA  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:ThoricCLA|ThoricCLA]] ([[User talk:ThoricCLA|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThoricCLA|contribs]]) 15:17, 2 September 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Seeking community feedback regarding the Chakra_(operating_system) article... ==

Hello,

As [[Chakra_(operating_system)]] is noted on [[Talk:Chakra_(operating_system)|its talk page]] as being supported by WikiProject Software, I would like to offer folks an opportunity to voice their opinions on an ongoing thread at [[Talk:Chakra_(operating_system)#Regarding_notability_tag...]].

Thanks in advance for your time and attention,

--[[User:Kevjonesin|Kevjonesin]] ([[User talk:Kevjonesin|talk]]) 00:15, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

== Edits to [[Good Technology]] ==

Hi, I work for [[Good Technology]]. The article has had flags indicating problems for a couple years. It also had some small inaccuracies, and presented a pretty incomplete overview of the company's history. While I understand that I have a conflict of interest, I want to help improve the article according to Wikipedia's standards. I have recently made some edits and additions, making every effort to express a neutral point of view; I also added about 20 independent citations. I hope a more experienced Wikipedian can take a look at my edits and provide any needed feedback. ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Good_Technology&oldid=573532938 previous version, prior to my edits])

Also, in the future I think it might make sense to merge the [[Visto]] article into this one, as the companies are now one and the same. -[[User:Karenarlenereynolds|Karenarlenereynolds]] ([[User talk:Karenarlenereynolds|talk]]) 00:17, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

== OpenOffice.org feature nomination ==

I've [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/OpenOffice.org/archive2|nominated OpenOffice.org for FAC]]. Uninvolved reviewers for FAC would be most welcome. Or, if you haven't time for that, just looking over the article would be good :-) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 09:03, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

== Loomio ==

I work for [[Loomio]] and created a stub article on it in my userspace. It was quickly shifted to the live site by other editors. I'm new to wikipedia and am trying to follow [[Wikipedia:Best practices for editors with conflicts of interest]] -[[User:Simontegg|Simontegg]]
:I assume this was because they felt it was notable enough to be moved to the mainspace. However, I will inform [[User:EuroCarGT|EuroCarGT]] that you have raised these concerns as he can probably give you a more precise answer. On a side note, you may wish to declare this conflict of interest on [[User:Simontegg|your user page]] to make it even clearer to other editors but well done for trying to follow the guidelines at [[WP:COI]] as best you can. [[User:Oddbodz|Oddbodz]] ([[User talk:Oddbodz|talk]]) 00:37, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
::I have spoken to EuroCarGT [[User talk:EuroCarGT/Archives/2013/October#Conversation You May Want To Look At|here]] and he has said that the article wasn't actually in your userspace and that he just moved it to a more appropriate title within the mainspace. [[User:Oddbodz|Oddbodz]] ([[User talk:Oddbodz|talk]]) 00:56, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
:::Ok thanks, I'm still familiarising myself with how this works -[[User:Simontegg|Simontegg]]  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 01:05, 31 October 2013 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== [[Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/TestAuditor]] ==

Dear software experts.  Can someone please take a look at the above submission at Afc?  Even though I have had some experience in writing software, I can't tell if this article is describing the product in an encyclopedic fashion.  Thanks! &mdash;[[User:Anne Delong|Anne Delong]] ([[User talk:Anne Delong|talk]]) 13:48, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

== Version History Tables, let's discuss discontinued products first, and then active products. ==

Consider my recent edit on [[Adobe GoLive]], which was discontinued in April 2008. In fact, it is a perfect example of why I'd like to see this practice become standard. The final version was downloadable for almost a year after that version's stable release. So, let's add sentences such as that to the bottoms of Version History Tables, for Articles on discontinued products. 

For active products (that is to say not discontinued, still actively developed and upgraded), I would also like you guys to look at the recent color code compromise (which is "pastel," essentially the same colors but in slightly lighter shades) over at [[Template:Version]] (click on the Template's Talk Page). This new compromise concerning the color code has not yet been implemented, but it will be implemented in a week or 2 if there are no further objections. [[User:The Mysterious El Willstro|The Mysterious El Willstro]] ([[User talk:The Mysterious El Willstro|talk]]) 23:12, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

== Help with BeerXML page ==

Hello,

I'm involved with the article [[BeerXML]] (as an advocate for software in brewing) I'd appreciate help with the article as I am not as well versed in software as in brewing.  The article has been tagged for deletion by two users who object to its existence, although I know that brewing software is used daily by tens (if not 100s of thousands of people) Your views on whether the article should be given time to develop would be most welcome at [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/BeerXML]]  Thanks - [[User:PrivateWiddle|Devils In Skirts!]] ([[User talk:PrivateWiddle|talk]]) 19:36, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

== Invitation to User Study ==

Would you be interested in participating in a user study? We are a team at University of Washington studying methods for finding collaborators within a Wikipedia community. We are looking for volunteers to evaluate a new visualization tool. All you need to do is to prepare for your laptop/desktop, web camera, and speaker for video communication with Google Hangout. We will provide you with a Amazon gift card in appreciation of your time and participation. For more information about this study, please visit our wiki page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Finding_a_Collaborator). If you would like to participate in our user study, please send me a message at [[User:Wkmaster|Wkmaster]] ([[User talk:Wkmaster|talk]]) 01:21, 23 February 2014 (UTC).

== Unintended Posting ==

Dear editors. I accidentally posted the same message. [[User:Wkmaster|Wkmaster]] ([[User talk:Wkmaster|talk]]) 01:25, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Burton Howard Bloom]] ==

Dear software experts:  Is this a notable person, and should this old abandoned Afc submission be kept and improved, or deleted as a stale draft?  &mdash;[[User:Anne Delong|Anne Delong]] ([[User talk:Anne Delong|talk]]) 03:46, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

== pdf 995 ==

User reason for visiting this page. I need a list of free or quasi free pdf converters.
The one I use on my laptop is pdf995.
I forgot the name and so went looking for it on google and yahoo. It no longer appears on the first page of google, now it is on the second page.

Additionally, the authors of the wiki page for free pdf software or quasi free, FAILS to list pdf 995.

This is an excellent program and completely free. The only payment is looking at an ad.

I am not sure why you have not included pdf995.  I have used it now for four years. for free.

Unfortunately, a list page of free software is very useful and I applaud the author or authors for their contribution, although not perfect.

The current problem, is that google is no longer reliable as it used to be. I believe my searches are more manipulated by them and things that used to pop us, no longer do. 

One observation is that you get less links on the first page and some people, never make it to the second page. 

Therefore, this wiki submission is helpful, even if it fails to include a very important free pdf converter, as pdf995 provides to the economical consumer.

thank you.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/200.88.233.183|200.88.233.183]] ([[User talk:200.88.233.183|talk]]) 16:56, 14 March 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Completed some edits, feedback welcome ==

As I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Software&diff=prev&oldid=576659692 mentioned last year], I have updated and expanded the article on my employer, [[Good Technology]] with independently sourced content. I have done my best to address the concerns others had expressed about previous versions of the article, and expanded it in ways that are neutral and comply with Wikipedia policy; but I would appreciate any feedback from experienced Wikipedians. -[[User:Karenarlenereynolds|Karenarlenereynolds]] ([[User talk:Karenarlenereynolds|talk]]) 17:49, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

== [[Miarmy]] ==

Can an expert pay some attention to this and fix the issues? [[User:Bearian|Bearian]] ([[User talk:Bearian|talk]]) 21:37, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Relevance of content|Relevance of content]] guidelines for Software ==

While this section has an obvious cause - the article [[Cdrtools]] was recently inflated with lots of advertising material, including exhaustive comparison charts mostly containing obscure features such as Disc tattoo support, "support for all three Unix times"), platform support lists with obscure platforms (Atari [[MiNT]] support!!1!) as well as a huge download locations table, trivial command line examples ("To eject the media of the default optical disc drive, or just open its tray: cdrecord -eject") and almost 100 footnotes and references - I noticed that I could not find a WikiProject specific guideline of '''what contents are relevant for a software Wikipedia article?'''

In my opinion, we should have some (easy to find) guidelines on what is relevant for a software article. Much of the contents on above page should go to the software homepage, and not be maintained in Wikipedia.

* Features (including platform support) should be limited to the most notable features. A feature that doesn't exist in other software is not automatically notable (e.g. support for the [[Klingon language]]), but only if there actually is verifiable interest in this feature, but there should be media reports that highlight this feature.
* Download links should be limited to the primary download location (if there is a substantial resource with download locations of alternate formats, it may be appropriate to also link this page additionally)
* Version lists should be limited to versions which add important functionality, and for which notability is easy to assert (e.g. coverage in media).
* For software with outstanding notability, it may be appropriate to "violate" above guidelines (Example: [[Features of the Opera web browser]]).
* In most cases, the [[Template:Infobox software]] already gives appropriate weight to version numbers, platform and language support, and download locations.
* (this list is only meant to start a discussion. I'm sure you will have more points to add.)

In my opinion, all of these are inherently implied by the [[Wikipedia:Relevance of content]] guideline, but they could be formalized. This page also states:
<blockquote>More specific guidance on content may be provided by a WikiProject whose scope includes the article in question.</blockquote>
'''Maybe such a guideline exists, and I could just not find it?'''

I would also appreciate a third opion on the relevancy of contents in the [[cdrecord]] article. It has been subject to major edit wars (and yes, I have recently been involved), suffers from [[WP:COI]], and in my opinion needs independent cleanup to make the article readable and useful. Maybe even by someone that does not use Unix and this software at all! In my opinion (see also [[Talk:Cdrtools]]), much of the contents are not [[Wikipedia:Relevance of content|relevant]] for Wikipedia, may constitute [[WP:OR]], give [[WP:UNDUE|undue weight]] on obscure features, and mostly serve the purpose of ''advertising cdrecord over the alternatives/forks that are currently preinstalled on major Linux distributions''. This request is to get some clear guidelines on what the "majority" of Wikipedia editors consider to be relevant for a Wikipedia article, and what not; in order to have a guideline to resolve this dispute. Please use [[Talk:Cdrtools]] for discussion specific to cdrtools; and follow up here if it is about general guidelines? Thank you. --[[User:Chire|Chire]] ([[User talk:Chire|talk]]) 08:38, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

:I would say that making a new general rule in order to solve a specific single-case problem is a bad idea. In this specific case the software author's repeated interventions on the talk page are a good indicator of the problem here - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 18:42, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

::[[Wikipedia:Relevance of content]] suggests for WikiProjects to provide such "more specific" guidelines. They don't need to ultimately decide everything for this particular software, but we should eventually have ''something'', in particular if we want to be neutral. --[[User:Chire|Chire]] ([[User talk:Chire|talk]]) 14:02, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

::{{reply to|David Gerard}} [[Talk:Cdrtools#rfc_1D8F122|Talk:Cdrtools]] has a RfC on the specific case of that article. Please comment. Nevertheless, I do think [[WikiProject Software]] should provide some general guidelines for software pages. --[[User:Chire|Chire]] ([[User talk:Chire|talk]]) 08:25, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

== Leaflet For Wikiproject Software At Wikimania 2014 ==

Are you looking to recruit more contributors to your project? 
<br>
We are offering to design and print physical paper leaflets to be distributed at Wikimania 2014 for all projects that apply. 
<br> 
For more information, click the link below.
<br>
''[http://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Project_Leaflets Project leaflets]''
<br>
[[User:Adikhajuria|Adikhajuria]] ([[User talk:Adikhajuria|talk]]) 11:49, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Zopim]] ==

Dear software experts:  This old Afc submission appears to have quite a few references.  Is this notable software, and should the page be kept instead of being deleted as a stale draft?  &mdash;[[User:Anne Delong|Anne Delong]] ([[User talk:Anne Delong|talk]]) 00:30, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
:No. The sources mostly are either collective blogs or small "news sites" earning their living by providing paid coverage. The article actually intermixes software and company in a way that allows to collect sizable amount of links without proving notability of either of these rather separate topics. The language of submission is indeed far from neutral. This piece should really die. — [[user:czarkoff|Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]] ([[user talk:czarkoff|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/czarkoff|track]]) 01:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
*I figured they could clean it, but in this instance it sounds like the best option would be for them to start from scratch as a whole (if they want to try running it via AfC again). I'll delete it and leave the applicable notes. [[User:Tokyogirl79|Tokyogirl79]][[user talk:Tokyogirl79|'''<span style='color: #19197;background-color: #FFFFFF;'>  (｡◕‿◕｡)</span>''']]  01:44, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

== KoodibooK ==

Could someone take a look at [[KoodibooK]]. It has been marked as an orphan & I'm wondering if it meets the notability requirements - but I'm not very familiar with this area.&mdash; [[User:Rodw|Rod]] <sup>[[User talk:Rodw|talk]]</sup> 13:08, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
:Please see [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KoodibooK]]. You may re-nominate it if you want to. — [[user:czarkoff|Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]] ([[user talk:czarkoff|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/czarkoff|track]]) 17:07, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
::Thanks I've renominated as it got no comments last time.&mdash; [[User:Rodw|Rod]] <sup>[[User talk:Rodw|talk]]</sup> 17:20, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

== Category needed ==

It's silly to have [[IBM Rational Rose XDE]] and similar stuff only in category "IBM software". That says nothing about what it does, in terms of categorization. I had trouble finding something suitable for [[Rigi (software)]]. Basically there isn't a category for either [[reverse engineering]] or one for [[software visualization]]. And there are surely plenty of software products to fill both of these. [[User:JMP EAX|JMP EAX]] ([[User talk:JMP EAX|talk]]) 22:22, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
:[[:Category:Disassemblers]] is there for reverse engineering software and [[:Category:Software modeling tools]] for software visualization. — [[user:czarkoff|Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]] ([[user talk:czarkoff|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/czarkoff|track]]) 07:43, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
:: Ok, I've added Rigi to the latter. [[User:JMP EAX|JMP EAX]] ([[User talk:JMP EAX|talk]]) 22:59, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
:: Frankly, there's some confusion as to the purpose of that category. Most of the material in it was as you say, but some was off topic. I think the category should be renamed so it's more obvious from its name what it's for. [[User:JMP EAX|JMP EAX]] ([[User talk:JMP EAX|talk]]) 23:04, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

== Palringo ==

Hi – the '''[[Palringo|Palringo article]]''' has a number of issues, mainly that it's very poorly referenced and gives undue weight to Palringo Groups. I've prepared a replacement '''[[User:HOgilvy/Palringo|userspace draft]]''' that is fully referenced and should tackle the issues that have been flagged. If someone could review it and feedback to me that would be much appreciated. In the interests of transparency I am declaring a conflict of interest in that I work for Bell Pottinger, a UK PR agency, and that Palringo is my client. I have made this clear on the article talk page and posted on COIN (since archived). Many thanks. [[User:HOgilvy|HOgilvy]] ([[User talk:HOgilvy|talk]]) 10:49, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
:Your new article is in many ways better then the one residing at [[Parlingo]]. Provided that history merge is impossible here (overlapping histories) I believe you should just go ahead and copy-paste your draft there. — [[user:czarkoff|Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]] ([[user talk:czarkoff|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/czarkoff|track]]) 19:07, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
::Hi [[user:czarkoff|Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]], thanks for the feedback. Would you mind moving it across if you're happy with it? Owing to the COI I prefer not to edit directly myself. Thanks very much. [[User:HOgilvy|HOgilvy]] ([[User talk:HOgilvy|talk]]) 12:53, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Any.do]] ==

Hello software experts.  Can someone take a look at this old draft an see if the references are reliable?  The draft will soon be deleted under G13 if no one takes an interest in it.  &mdash;[[User:Anne Delong|Anne Delong]] ([[User talk:Anne Delong|talk]]) 11:24, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

== GoldBug ==

Hi! There is an ongoing [[WP:Articles for deletion/GoldBug (software)|AFD discussion]] regarding [[GoldBug (software)|GoldBug]] instant messenger. Right now the only participants besides me are several [[WP:SPA|SPA]]s that came via Twitter post and flooded discussion with long posts with no respect to Wikipedia policies. I urge some experienced editors to assess this article and weight in with policy-based comments. — [[user:czarkoff|Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]] ([[user talk:czarkoff|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/czarkoff|track]]) 12:11, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

== Tech help required to improve categories ==

Please see [[Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#CatVisor]] and [[User:Paradoctor/CatVisor#Planned features]] if you are willing and able to assist this innovative WP project move along it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, [[User:IZAK|IZAK]] ([[User talk:IZAK|talk]]) 22:58, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

==[[Draft:NewFasant]]==
FYI, there's a notice about this draft article at [[WT:PHYSICS]] -- [[Special:Contributions/65.94.169.222|65.94.169.222]] ([[User talk:65.94.169.222|talk]]) 08:00, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

== Mailpile ==

Greetings, could somebody please take a look at [[Mailpile]] and assess its notability please. I don't think there is enough extensive coverage from reliable sources to pass [[WP:GNG]], so should be deleted. What's your view? Thanks, [[User:JMHamo|JMHamo]] ([[User talk:JMHamo|talk]]) 21:52, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

=={{noredirect|GNU/Linux}}==
The usage of {{la|GNU/Linux}} is under discussion, see [[WP:RFD]] for the disucssion -- [[Special:Contributions/70.51.46.146|70.51.46.146]] ([[User talk:70.51.46.146|talk]]) 05:58, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

== Comment on the WikiProject X proposal ==

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please '''[[meta:Grants:IEG/WikiProject X|review the proposal here]]''' and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my [[User talk:Harej|talk page]]. Thank you for your time! <small>(Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.)</small> [[User:Harej|Harej]] ([[User talk:Harej|talk]]) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Harej@enwiki using the list at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Harej/WikiProjects&oldid=627879829 -->

=="[[Software package]]"==
The meaning and usage of "software package" is under discussion, see [[talk:Package (package management system)]] -- [[Special:Contributions/67.70.35.44|67.70.35.44]] ([[User talk:67.70.35.44|talk]]) 05:19, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

== Revive Proposed Change: Add "Repository" Field ==

[[Template talk:Infobox software#Revive Proposed Change: Add .22Repository.22 Field | See proposal on infobox talk page]]:
<blockquote style="background:#eee;padding:2px 10px;">This proposal was made, and not done previously: [[Template talk:Infobox software/Archive 3#Source Code Repository Field]]. I'd like to revive the change, which I have commenced through opportunity for discussion on [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computing]] and [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Software]], as well as with '''a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_software%2Frepository&diff=555394939&oldid=555394713 specific diff] of the proposed edit'''.</blockquote>

<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mattsenate |Mattsenate ]] ([[User talk:Mattsenate |talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mattsenate |contribs]])  17:57, 16 May 2013‎ (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

== Help me to change the logo image ==

hi!

I haven't enough permission to update the logo image for [[All My Movies]]. The existing one is outdated. It wasn't used for several years.
Can someone set this image as the logo: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15499178/amm_logo180.png ?  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Maxic9|Maxic9]] ([[User talk:Maxic9|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Maxic9|contribs]]) 19:30, 25 October 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Help determining notability ==

Could use some more opinions here: [[Talk:Yet Another Cleaner#This page should not be speedy deleted because...]] --[[User:NeilN|<b style="color:navy">Neil<span style="color:red">N</span></b>]] <sup>[[User talk:NeilN|<i style="color:blue">talk to me</i>]]</sup> 20:04, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
: Commented there. Thanks for the notification {{u|NeilN}} -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 20:53, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

== Date format in release history sections of Linux OS articles ==

Should all tables in WikiProject Software articles use the same date format?  If something like that would be a viable new guideline, which date format should be used (MDY, DMY or ISO)?  What about the tables collapsed by default? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 01:05, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

=== Articles status overview ===
[[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Date_formats]] allows five day-specific date formats for use in tables:
* 2 August 2001 = %e %B %Y
* 2 Aug 2001 = %e %b %Y
* August 2, 2001 = %B %e, %Y
* Aug 2, 2001 = %b %e,%Y
* 2001-08-02 = %F = %Y-%m-%d

Above formatting symbols as in glibc [http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Formatting-Calendar-Time.html]. %e includes padded blank, and is used for day of the month (1...31)

{| class="wikitable sortable"
! [[List of Linux distributions|Base]]
! Page(s)
! Table
! Current format
! Reason
! Comment
|-
| Debian
| [[Debian#Timeline]] || Yes 
| style="white-space: nowrap;" | YYYY-MM-DD
| Best format (awaiting decision)
| Converted from YYYY-MM-DD to D MMM YYYY, while the article ''text'' used "MMM DD, YYYY" and "D MMM YYYY" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Debian&diff=593999592&oldid=592675406 on 2014-02-05]. Promoted to good article using D MMM YYYY [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Debian&diff=next&oldid=614225287 on 2014-06-24]. 
|-
| Debian
| [[Aptosid#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD
| {{Diff2|634350639|Pending}}
|
|-
| Debian
| [[Bharat Operating System Solutions#Versions]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD
| {{Diff2|634510375|Pending}}
|
|-
| Debian
| [[Canaima (operating system)#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD
| {{Diff2|634682217|Pending}}
| Converted from policy-violating MMM YYYY, D[D].
|-
| Debian
| [[Finnix#Versions]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD
| {{Diff2|634841685|Pending}}
| Converted from D MMM YYYY, harmonization with finnix.org release information and with references.
|-
| Debian
| [[gNewSense#Versions]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD
| {{Diff2|634988004|Pending}}
|
|-
| Debian
| [[HandyLinux#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD
| {{Diff2|635112504|Pending}}
| Converted from MMM DD, YYYY in table, harmonization with references that used DD MMM YYYY (French, English, false spelled English).
|-
| Debian
| [[Pardus (operating system)#Release history]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD
| {{Diff2|635339555|Pending}}
|
|-
| Debian
| [[Ubuntu (operating system)#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| Debian
| [[Kubuntu#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| Debian
| [[Lubuntu#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
| Converted from D MMM YYYY, harmonization with Ubuntu, Kubuntu and format in image
|-
| Debian
| [[Xubuntu#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
| Converted from D MMM YYYY, harmonization with Ubuntu and Kubuntu.
|-
| Debian
| [[Poseidon Linux#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| Debian
| [[Linux Mint#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| Debian
| [[Freespire#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
| Converted from MMM D, YYYY, harmonization with Ubuntu and Debian articles and avoidance of having US and European format in one article.
|-
| Debian
| [[Knoppix#Versions]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| Debian
| [[Skolelinux#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
| Converted from text that used MMM D, YYYY to table that uses ISO 8601. Harmonization with articles about Debian-based systems.
|-
| Debian
| [[Kanotix#Release timeline]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| Debian
| [[Damn Small Linux#Release timeline]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| Gentoo
| [[Gentoo Linux#Versions]] || No || MMM D, YYYY ||
|
|-
| Pacman
| [[Manjaro Linux#Release history]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[SUSE Linux distributions#Versions]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[OpenSUSE#Version history]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[Red Hat Enterprise Linux#Version history]] || No || D MMM YYYY ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[Red Hat Enterprise Linux#Product life cycle]] || Yes || D MMM YYYY ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[CentOS#Versioning and releases]] || Yes || MMM D, YYYY ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[Scientific Linux#Release history]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[Fermi Linux#Releases]] || Yes || MMM D, YYYY ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[Oracle Linux#Release history]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[Yellow Dog Linux#Releases]] || Yes || D MMM YYYY ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[Berry Linux#Version history]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
| Converted from policy-violating YYYY MMM D[D]
|-
| RPM
| [[Korora (operating system)#Version history]] || No || MMM D, YYYY ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[Aurora SPARC Linux#Version history]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
| Converted from MMM D, YYYY to YYYY-MM-DD, harmonization with Fedora Core.
|-
| RPM
| [[Mandriva Linux#Versions]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|-
| RPM
| [[Mageia#Version history]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
| Converted from D MMM YYYY, harmonization with Mandriva Linux and avoidance of having US and European format in one article.
|-
| Slackware
| [[Slackware#Releases]] || Yes || YYYY-MM-DD ||
|
|}
====Table history====
* Start table. [[User:Derianus|Derianus]] ([[User talk:Derianus|talk]]) 04:08, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
* Added comment to Debian. [[Special:Contributions/84.127.82.127|84.127.82.127]] ([[User talk:84.127.82.127|talk]]) 18:58, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
* Added Lubuntu. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 19:09, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Kubuntu. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 19:34, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Xubuntu. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 19:54, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Linux Mint. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 19:58, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Mandriva Linux. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 20:49, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Mageia. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 21:08, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Freespire. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 21:36, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added comment to Debian. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 21:53, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added comment to Aurora. Aurora converted to YYYY-MM-DD for consistency with Fedora Core from which it is derived. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 22:52, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Changed comment for Debian. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 18:31, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added gNewSense. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 19:20, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Changed row order: List Debian before Ubuntu, since the latter is based on the former. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 19:26, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Slackware. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 21:08, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Manjaro. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 21:14, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Grouping by first-level item of [[List of Linux distributions]]. Added column named "Base", containing a short name for the first-level item under which an OS is listed. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 21:28, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Knoppix. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 21:44, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Skolelinux. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 22:08, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Kanotix. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 23:03, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Damn Small Linux. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 23:19, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Poseidon. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 23:45, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Aptosid, Bharat Operating System Solutions, Canaima. [[Special:Contributions/80.134.94.228|80.134.94.228]] ([[User talk:80.134.94.228|talk]]) 20:26, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Finnix. [[Special:Contributions/80.134.94.228|80.134.94.228]] ([[User talk:80.134.94.228|talk]]) 22:10, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added HandyLinux. [[Special:Contributions/80.134.94.228|80.134.94.228]] ([[User talk:80.134.94.228|talk]]) 22:39, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
* Added Pardus. [[Special:Contributions/80.134.94.228|80.134.94.228]] ([[User talk:80.134.94.228|talk]]) 01:58, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

=== Additional description ===
From this discussion, the following decisions should be made:
* Should visible tables in articles under this WikiProject use the same date format? Which one?
* Accessibility tables, such as the timeline descriptions in [[Debian]], are associated with timeline charts and they are usually collapsed. Should they use the same date format? Which one?
* If [[ISO 8601]] is chosen, what should be the format for dates with month accuracy?
There is a divergence between technical readers that understand ISO 8601 and general readers that would rather use a word-based format. While I am inclined to use ISO 8601, this encyclopedia is for everyone. Debian was promoted to GA-class using a word-based format on June 24, 2014, and it is the only good article in the list above. Decisions are [[WP:DEM|not made by vote]]; good articles represent better what an article should be and are the model for non-good articles to follow.
Thus, I give in to a word-based format, but I will not defend this position. [[Special:Contributions/84.127.82.127|84.127.82.127]] ([[User talk:84.127.82.127|talk]]) 18:58, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
: There are technical readers like yourself that do understand ISO 8601 and would "rather use a word-based format". There are non-technical readers that understand ISO 8601 and would "rather use a word-based format". There are non-technical readers that do understand ISO 8601 and would "rather use ISO 8601". There might be readers that do not understand ISO 8601, but then ISO 8601 should be banned completely from Wikipedia. So, do you promote complete ban of ISO 8601 date format? How many such readers that do not understand that format exist? Are they normally converted to understanders after reading some reference sections and tables that use ISO 8601? [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 21:38, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

=== Discussion ===
Reply to [[User:84.127.82.127]]
* The first bullet point has two questions attached. But I think if the first is answered with Yes, then the second can only be answered with ISO 8601. Otherwise one of US format and Afro-Latin-Euro-AU-NZ format would be forced on articles that might have no close relation with that format. ISO 8601 is not only short, unambiguous and international, but it is also neutral to the debate whether US or European should be used in this Wiki. I think the wiki interface should also change to ISO 8601 as default. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 19:19, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Regarding GA-class - it was made GA-class whilst using US format in text and Afro-Euro-Latin format in the tables. So what does that prove? One could take any characteristic of the article at the time it gained GA-class and then claim this characteristic is needed to obtain GA-class. That is like [[cargo cult]]. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 23:48, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
* Regarding uncomplete dates - at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers/Archive_146#Rfc:_Is_YYYY-MM_an_acceptable_date_format.3F_Part_4 this talk], there seems to be no consensus for banning YYYY-MM. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 23:48, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

: I used to prefer YYYY-MM-DD date format for years, but in the last year or so MDY format became my favorite.  FWIW, I'd say that MDY is simply ''much'' more readable, while the only benefit of YYYY-MM-DD is much easier automated sorting (however,  wiki code provides means to sort all date formats). &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 20:20, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

:: This talk page is for discussion of articles, not for discussion of personal taste. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 20:50, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

::: Please don't get me wrong, but how your YYYY-MM-DD preference, which is clearly stated above, is more than some kind of a personal opinion? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 23:10, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
::: At the same time, I'm strongly against establishing some kind of a standard for the date format in tables or anything else.  Instead of a global consistency, we should ensure that each article is consistent on its own; that would also comply with [[MOS:ENGVAR]] and [[WP:ARTCON]]. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 23:20, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

:::: Interesting that [[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]] speaks out for consistency inside an article. Did Dsimic read the intro of this section, before Dsimic put news words in front of it? For those less involved: 1) ISO 8601 is allowed for tables and not for text. Going to consistency between text and table, would mean indirectly disallowing ISO 8601. 2) Dsimic introduced D MMM YYYY in a table whilst the text for that article used MMM D, YYYY. [[User:Michael Shotter|Michael Shotter]] ([[User talk:Michael Shotter|talk]]) 23:48, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

::::: Yes, I've read it.  Ok, I've introduced a different date format long time ago, but that didn't prevent me from learning more about Wikipedia's guidelines.  Nobody is perfect, but everybody can better himself/herself. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 00:10, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

::::* The date format was not consistent; there are instances of DMY in that diff, such as in "Security updates". I will say it once: {{U|Dsimic}} made a good decision then. Please focus on what format should be used to improve this WikiProject. [[Special:Contributions/84.127.115.190|84.127.115.190]] ([[User talk:84.127.115.190|talk]]) 02:16, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
::::** Changed comment in the table, introduced by [[User:Michael Shotter]]. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.127.47|91.9.127.47]] ([[User talk:91.9.127.47|talk]]) 18:31, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

{{od|6}} This whole ISO date format thing needs to be discussed.  A whole bunch of articles becomes partially converted to the ISO date format with little to no discussion.  Any chances, 80.134.94.228, to discuss that first, please?  Per [[WP:ENGVAR]] and [[WP:ARTCON]], articles shouldn't be changed that way. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 02:10, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

: I would like to propose this: make the tables in [[Microsoft Windows]] and [[Timeline of Microsoft Windows]] use ISO 8601, and I will be convinced. [[Special:Contributions/84.127.115.190|84.127.115.190]] ([[User talk:84.127.115.190|talk]]) 02:29, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

:: This has nothing to do with what a particular article is about.  In a few words, Wikipedia's guidelines apply to all articles. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 02:50, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

::: Guidelines may apply only to WikiProjects, such as [[WP:MILSG|military history]], [[WP:VG/GL|video games]] and [[MOS:FILM|film]]. [[MOS:CS|Computer science]] and [[WP:WPSCH/AG|schools]] are preparing their own. [[Special:Contributions/84.127.115.190|84.127.115.190]] ([[User talk:84.127.115.190|talk]]) 05:36, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

:::: That's fine, but only two or three editors can't create the rules for a WikiProject, so this what we're doing here shouldn't be seen as in instance of that.  Hope you agree. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 05:52, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

::::: Even one single editor can dictate rules for a WikiProject; these rules may happen to improve an encyclopedia. Wikipedia is [[WP:DEM|not a democracy]]: as long as the rules address all reasonable concerns, it does not matter how many people created them. Wikipedia has no firm rules: they can be modified if there are remaining concerns. [[Special:Contributions/84.127.115.190|84.127.115.190]] ([[User talk:84.127.115.190|talk]]) 06:36, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::  Sorry, but you're twisting the rules a bit{{snd}} it's all about discussing and reaching a consensus, what [[WP:DEMOCRACY]] clearly states.  At the same time, and as I've already described, I do have concerns regarding imposing additional rules on the date formatting, within a project or not.
:::::: As more time passes by, this starts to look more and more as a [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] for some editors.  Why do I see it that way? Lack of discussion. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 06:54, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

::::::: On single editor CANNOT dictate rules for entire WikiProject.  Things are done via talk, discussion and consensus.  That does not include one person deciding when others do not agree.  Guidelines apply to ALL articles and projects.  Other WikiProjects have style guides, but these are only recommendations.  [[WP:MOSDATE]] clearly applies and changing date formats for a group of articles goes against MOSDATE.  [[User:Bgwhite|Bgwhite]] ([[User talk:Bgwhite|talk]]) 07:13, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::: Yes, see [[WP:LOCALCONSENSUS]]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Widefox|Widefox]]</span>; [[User talk:Widefox|talk]]</span> 08:21, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

:::::::* I {{Diff2|633912265|see}}. [[Special:Contributions/84.127.115.190|84.127.115.190]] ([[User talk:84.127.115.190|talk]]) 05:11, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

*Dsimic invited me here to give my opinion. To the original question "''Should all tables in WikiProject Software articles use the same date format?''", I'd say no. Just like [[WP:ENGVAR]], there are multiple correct ways to write out dates and people tend to not agree which is the "right way". Just let the original author use their preferred style and stay consistent with it, as long as it complies with [[MOS:DATE]] -- there is ample of precedent of solving consistency questions that way.
:I think the opposite needs more justification: Why do we need to enforce any particular format within software articles/changelogs, if the greater Wikipedia didn't consider it necessary? Why are software changelogs special? -- [[user:intgr|intgr]]&nbsp;<small>[[user talk:intgr|[talk]]]</small> 15:07, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

* {{u|Dsimic}} also invited me and I agree basically with {{u|intgr}}. I can appreciate the need for high-quality articles to be internally consistent. We need to be using recognisable and unambiguous date encodings. I don't see significant disagreement on these two points. Beyond that, this is not something I choose to spend a lot of time tweaking or discussing. ~[[user talk:Kvng|KvnG]] 16:17, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
* Hello guys. I am also here by invitation. I must say I entirely support the status quo established by [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers]]. While internal consistency within an article is important, I cannot find a logical rationale for cross-article consistency restricted to tables. To put it frankly, it looks like playing with fire and a recipe for trouble, the first manifestation of which is conflict with [[MOS:STABILITY]] and existing manuals of style. (I have far less trouble accepting a universal decree that establishes one of these styles as the only acceptable one across the entire Wikimedia Foundation projects. That eliminates all conflicts and potentials for conflict forever and sets the ground for personalization.) In addition, what happens when the inclusion of one article into WikiProject Software becomes a matter of dispute? As of now, it is possible to just include it and forget about the dispute because the inclusion only means more visibility but not more liability or responsibility. Best regards, [[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 21:26, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
:: I do find a rationale for cross-article consistency: the best format should be used. However, cross-article consistency alone does not seem a valid reason. I would like to know why each article is using a specific date format: readability, table width, international usage, national ties, contributor's choice. Could this information be provided? [[Special:Contributions/84.127.115.190|84.127.115.190]] ([[User talk:84.127.115.190|talk]]) 04:56, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
::: Different people have different opinions, views and preferences; thus, it's pretty much impossible to declare any date format as ''the best''.  Please have a look at [[MOS:DATEFORMAT]] ([[WP:DATERET]] and [[MOS:DATE TIES]] in particular) for answers to your questions. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 05:53, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
* Dsimic invited me as well, and I'm quite surprised by just how off-topic this discussion got at one point. Anyway, forcing DMY or MDY across articles is not a possibility, because different articles may have different [[MOS:DATE TIES|national ties]]. Considering [[MOS:DATEUNIFY]], that should narrow this discussion to just two possibilities: standardize all project tables upon ISO dates, or stick with the status quo. Since I see nothing to suggest that a wikiproject can create their own standards, and [[WP:LOCALCONSENSUS]] appears to prohibit it, forcing ISO dates is not really plausible. Thus, each table should either use the format of that article (either DMY or MDY), or ISO where space is premium. As to the question of month formatting, that one is obvious. Use MY and abbreviate the months where pressed for space. –&nbsp;[[User:Voidxor|voidxor]]&nbsp;<small><sup>([[User talk:Voidxor|talk]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Voidxor|contrib]])</sup></small> 05:09, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
*I wandered in off the street (well, I spotted the note about this at [[user talk:Msnicki]]). I've only skim read the above discussion but I haven't seen anything compelling to change my opinion on date formatting generally: 
*#Consensus must always be gained for each article before changing from one consistently used date style to another, regardless of the style used or reason for the change
*#Article prose must be internally consistent (excluding quotes and discussion of date styles)
*#Article tables must be internally consistent
*#Article tables may use ISO if the prose uses a different format, if there is consensus for this on the article talk page (or when a table with dates is first added to the article and there has been no prior objection on the talk page). Prose and tables in the same article may not use different non-ISO formats.
*#Articles on different versions of the same software should use the same date format (e.g. [[KDE3]] and [[KDE4]] should use the same format).
*#Where [[WP:TIES]] applies the standard format for that country/region should be used. 
*#Where [[WP:TIES]] does not apply, the style used by the first significant contributor should be used.
*#Where the style used by the first significant contributor cannot be determined use the style first consistently used
*#Where no style has been consistently used, and there are no national ties, apply [[WP:BRD]]. 
:This is intended to be a hierarchy, so use the first one that applies to each article. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 01:52, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
:: [[User:Thryduulf]] misses the point of the discussion, if s/he refers to "applies the standard format for that country/region should be used" - ISO 8601 is not allowed in prose, and WP:TIES is about prose. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.103.21|91.9.103.21]] ([[User talk:91.9.103.21|talk]]) 07:47, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
* As others have said, I don't think we need any ruling here. Internal consistency with articles is a good idea, and if there are groups of very-similarly-formatted tables across different articles it'd be nice to unify the formatting across them in the absence of a reason not to to make comparison easier. Other than that, this isn't something editors really need concern themselves with outside of what the MoS already says. [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 17:49, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

* {{Comment}} Applying ISO 8601 in tables or in references, is the only place where ISO 8601 is allowed. ISO 8601 is only allowed for these specific purposes. It is allowed there, to save space. The whole monster-discussion only started, when Dsimic decided to single-handed change the date format from ISO 8601 to a format he thought to be better. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.103.21|91.9.103.21]] ([[User talk:91.9.103.21|talk]]) 07:38, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

:: Well, please don't get me wrong but the whole mess started when some other editors saw the opportunity to create new rules and enforce ISO dates in tables all around.  Ok, the ISO date format is back in [[Debian]] article, where that's appropriate (releases table), and it's been back for a while{{snd}} does that create an opportunity for everyone to put the whole mess behind and move on?  Please? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 07:52, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

::: Dsimic wrote "Should all tables in WikiProject Software articles use the same date format?". AFAICS, when "cross-article consistency" first appeared, it was not meant to refer to all WP Software articles. The first versions of the table here, showed Linux OSs. Currently all Debian-based systems listed used YYYY-MM-DD. Maybe one could narrow the whole discussion down to Debian-based OS? [[Special:Contributions/91.9.103.21|91.9.103.21]] ([[User talk:91.9.103.21|talk]]) 08:17, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

:::: Please see above (written by 84.127.82.12): "Should visible tables in articles under this WikiProject use the same date format? Which one?"  That's what described the whole thing when the discussion was moved over here. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 08:45, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

===Linux websites===
* https://www.kernel.org/ - YYYY-MM-DD
* http://distrowatch.com/ - YYYY-MM-DD
[[Special:Contributions/80.134.94.228|80.134.94.228]] ([[User talk:80.134.94.228|talk]]) 20:52, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

: That's ''completely'' irrelevant.  Wikipedia doesn't follow the way other sites display the dates. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 05:56, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
:: AFAICS that's not true. But {{U|Dsimic}} can convince me, if Dsimic has an example answering this question: Which format does Wikipedia use, that is not "the way other sites display the dates."? [[Special:Contributions/91.9.103.21|91.9.103.21]] ([[User talk:91.9.103.21|talk]]) 07:20, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
::: Simply put, there's no ''default'' date format on Wikipedia (please see the guidelines already linked above).  Thus, there's no point in associating date formats on Wikipedia with date formats on other websites, or vice-versa.  In other words, if some website uses one date format, that provides no ground for enforcing the same format in Wikipedia articles, despite the fact that Wikipedia in most cases ''may'' use the same date format; in the end, there are no Wikipedia-specific date formats that aren't used anywhere else. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 07:43, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
:::: Simply put: 1) There is "WP:TIES" which influences date format decisions. 2) There is a default format in English Wikipedia, D MMM YYYY. Look at recent changes or your signatures. 3) There are two date formats which specify day, month and year that are allow in the prose of English Wikipedia's article name space. That is already a restriction from what is allowed in English. That restriction has been made for what reason? For consistency inside English Wikipedia maybe? 4) Among the two, MOS discourages changing. 5) But the MOS allows ISO 8601 for all articles in tables and in references. 6) Linux has no strong national ties, but date format ties might be seen in main Linux websites. This is not specified in MOS, but as analogy and maybe in the spirit of MOS, it could be some indicator. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.103.21|91.9.103.21]] ([[User talk:91.9.103.21|talk]]) 08:02, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
::::: Any chances, please, to elaborate further on what could that actually indicate? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 08:13, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
:::::: That a) there is some tie to that format b) readers interested in that topic are confronted with that date format also outside Wikipedia. The latter is a reply to IP 84.127.82.127's statement "There is a divergence between technical readers that understand ISO 8601 and general readers that would rather use a word-based format." - general readers interested in Linux, already find the ISO format on other sites, they may very well know how to read it, if better than what is required by MOS, since MOS allows ISO for any article, including ones where strongly related sites don't provide the ISO format. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.103.21|91.9.103.21]] ([[User talk:91.9.103.21|talk]]) 08:24, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
::::::: That would indicate we want to extend the date format consistency beyond Wikipedia articles themselves to other websites as well.  To me, that doesn't hold water, as if a reader can't easily handle multiple date formats, how can we expect him/her to handle more complex things such as those explained here in Linux-related articles? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 08:41, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

=== Gathering reasons ===
We need information to make proper decisions. Let us gather the reasons why each article is using its date format. I have provided the reason for Debian, and added the Windows articles and [[OS X]] to the table; please do not add more changelog entries, because users that care about history use "View history". [[Special:Contributions/84.127.115.190|84.127.115.190]] ([[User talk:84.127.115.190|talk]]) 02:40, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
:I don't think it matters what any article is using or why it is using it. It might matter if there was a reason to change articles to use the same format, but I can't see any justification for or benefit to that. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 03:56, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
:: Yeah, in other words there's no "conspiracy" behind the currently used date formats. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 04:00, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
::: I have added [[Microsoft Office]] because it is a major suite and one significant example; we are talking about software articles, not just operating systems.
::: This section is about gathering reasons and people could help me; I would appreciate if I did not have to do all that work by myself. {{U|Dsimic}} has {{Diff2|633909363|complained}} about lack of discussion; that can be solved, because Dsimic has not brought an army of editors to state that consensus is not possible and that a best format cannot be decided. We are going to find out each article's reason; if a reason is not provided, then it will be "no reason". [[Special:Contributions/84.127.115.190|84.127.115.190]] ([[User talk:84.127.115.190|talk]]) 07:20, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
:::: Quite frankly, that digging through article histories is going to be a pretty much pointless waste of time.  Please don't get me wrong, 84.127.115.190, you can do whatever you wish with your own time, and that's just how I see it. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 07:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
:::: As Dsimic says, you can do what you want, but I don't understand what you are trying to achieve? [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 13:41, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
::::: [[User:Thryduulf]] - enhancing English Wikipedia? [[Special:Contributions/91.9.103.21|91.9.103.21]] ([[User talk:91.9.103.21|talk]]) 08:03, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
:::::: What I don't understand is why gathering the reasons why some articles use given date formats will enhance Wikipedia? As noted by everybody else who has commended, date format is chosen at an article level according to [[MOS:DATE]] guidelines. There is no reason,  benefit or appetite to change the status quo. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 10:35, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

:: If [[User:Thryduulf]] doesn't think it matters what format is used, then why is s/he taking part in the discussion? [[Special:Contributions/91.9.103.21|91.9.103.21]] ([[User talk:91.9.103.21|talk]]) 08:09, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
::: You asked for help with this task, I explained why I don't think it is worth your time. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 10:35, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
:::: All IP editors look the same. [[Special:Contributions/84.127.115.190|84.127.115.190]] ([[User talk:84.127.115.190|talk]]) 17:49, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
:::: Yeah, in fact ''84.127.115.190'' proposed the gathering of information, while ''91.9.103.21'' jumped in later. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 04:18, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

I removed Windows and Mac. Both are owned by US based companies, while Linux is much more international. [[Special:Contributions/91.9.103.21|91.9.103.21]] ([[User talk:91.9.103.21|talk]]) 08:07, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
: May [[Special:Contributions/91.9.103.21|91.9.103.21]] explain how Linux is any more international than Windows? Is OS X only used in the United States? Does ISO 8601 only apply to Linux or Debian? [[Special:Contributions/84.127.115.190|84.127.115.190]] ([[User talk:84.127.115.190|talk]]) 17:49, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
: Right, all three operating systems are pretty much equally of international nature.  It isn't that now I support the whole "mess" we have here, :) but as a matter of fact Linux is no more international than Windows. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 04:18, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

=== Further reading ===
{{#ifeq:{{#time:m-d|{{CURRENTTIMESTAMP}}}}|04-01|
*{{cite web |url=http://xkcd.com/1179/ |title=ISO 8601 |website=xkcd |publisher=[[Randall Munroe]] |date=2013-02-27 |accessdate=2014-11-23}}{{April fools}}
|
*{{cite web |url=http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/iso-date |title=Use international date format (ISO) |last=Dubost |first=Karl |publisher=[[World Wide Web Consortium]] |date=2003-08-16 |accessdate=2014-11-23}}
*{{cite web |url=http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-date-format |title=Date formats |last1=Honomichl |first1=Lloyd |last2=Ishida |first2=Richard |publisher=[[World Wide Web Consortium]] |date=2007-07-04 |accessdate=2014-11-23}}
}}

== T: Source code ==
FYI {{tl|Source code}} has been nominated for deletion -- [[Special:Contributions/67.70.35.44|67.70.35.44]] ([[User talk:67.70.35.44|talk]]) 06:55, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

== Windows X listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|40px|left]]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Windows X]]. Please participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 December 12#Windows X|the redirect discussion]] if you have not already done so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[Special:Contributions/67.70.35.44|67.70.35.44]] ([[User talk:67.70.35.44|talk]]) 06:31, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

== WikiProject X is live! ==

[[File:WikiProject X icon.svg|100px|right|link=Wikipedia:WikiProject X]]

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject X|WikiProject X]]''' is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, [[Wikipedia:WikiProject X|check us out]]! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

'''Note:''' To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter]]. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

[[User:Harej|Harej]] ([[User talk:Harej|talk]]) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
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== [[Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Boundary]] ==

Hello software experts.  This old AfC submission has quite a few references.  Is this a notable topic, and should the page be kept and improved instead of being deleted as a stale draft?  &mdash;[[User:Anne Delong|Anne Delong]] ([[User talk:Anne Delong|talk]]) 06:15, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

:Based on the references, this appears to be a notable company. I have resubmitted and accepted ([[Boundary (company)]]). ~[[user talk:Kvng|KvnG]] 16:17, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

== Help is requested ==

Hello {{ping|Orubel}} is looking for help with his article [[Draft:API Chaining]]. There have been concerns over the notability of this software, I am hoping someone here can provide further assistance, or may be more aware of where to find more reliable sources. Please engage Orubel directly, with advice and guidance. His other article [[API Abstraction]] has survived a Prod but this one did not originally survive [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/API Chaining|AFD]].- [[User:Mcmatter|McMatter]] <sup>([[User talk:Mcmatter|talk]])</sup>/<sub>([[Special:Contributions/Mcmatter|contrib]])</sub> 21:16, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

:: as previously stated, peer reviewed conference materials count for notability. I was also asked recently to present to the Silicon Valley Grails Meetup on Shared IO State in Highly Scalable API's wherein I also talked about API chaining (http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Grails-Centro/events/219217262/), slides available here (http://www.slideshare.net/bobdobbes/silicon-valley-grails). This continues to be a farce.  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Orubel|Orubel]] ([[User talk:Orubel|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Orubel|contribs]]) 04:19, 19 January 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Invention of BASIC ==

There is a discussion concerning who developed the BASIC programming language at [[Talk:BASIC#Sister Keller]]. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 19:31, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

== Article ratings ==

I have been contributing to [[User:Wonderfl|Software & Computing]] related articles for a long time. I would like to get started in rating articles. I'm fairly unbaised in my approach which is why I usually cleanup, wikify, copy-write paras, rm advert-statements, neaten up articles, improve sections, reorder sections, and so on. I think I would be a good examiner, and I'm sure there are heaps of unrated articles or articles that could be re-rated.

I spoke to {{ping|SuperHamster}} about this and he/she said that my ratings seem "solid", but I'd like to write here to (a) verify if my ratings are fine, (b) learn how to rate articles properly (yes I've read the quality assessment scale) and (c) find the list of unrated articles so I can do my thing. Copied below is the excerpt of the [[User_talk:SuperHamster#Contributions|discussion]].

:''"Can I change page ratings as per this guide or do I have to ask? [[MPLAB devices]] is at least C if not B. [[MPLAB]] is Start, [[Flare3D]]/[[Away3D]] is C, [[Adobe Flash Player]], [[Adobe AIR]], [[SpeedTree]] are C or even B. [[PIC microcontroller]] is C. The rest are mostly correctly rated as Start. Am I right?"
:[[User:Wonderfl|Wonderfl]] <sup>[[User_talk:Wonderfl|(reply)]]</sup> 06:13, 13 February 2015 (UTC)''
::''Wonderfl Oop, my bad! I'd say those are pretty solid ratings - I'm not too experienced with quality ratings (especially since I'm not a member of those particular WikiProjects), but looking at the criteria, those all seem sitting. And thanks for your interest! The more we can sort articles into their respective WikiProjects, the better. '''~''[[User:SuperHamster|<span style="color:#07517C">Super</span>]]''[[User:SuperHamster|<span style="color:#6FA23B">Hamster</span>]]''' <small>[[User talk:SuperHamster|Talk]] [[Special:Contribs/SuperHamster|Contribs]]</small> 03:38, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
''

::Those ratings look reasonable to me. [[PIC microcontroller]] and [[Adobe Flash Player]] are potential [[WP:BCLASS]] articles. [[WP:BOLD]] applies to most everything non-administrators do on Wikipedia including ratings. You can improve your ratings by making some mistakes. [[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 15:04, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

== AVS Video Editor ==

Hi folks - [[User:NeviRom]] stopped by my talk page and asked me to look at an article they rewrote in their sandbox for [[AVS Video Editor]]. The article was deleted, rightfully so, due sourcing and notability concerns. I'm not as knowledgeable in the subject area of video editing software. Can someone take a look [[User_talk:Missvain#AVS_Video_Editor|here]] and perhaps give NeviRom some feedback? I can't tell if the sources are reliable or not...or if it meets the guidelines necessary for determining notability for such a subject. Thanks a lot! [[User:Missvain|Missvain]] ([[User talk:Missvain|talk]]) 17:36, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

== Inkscape 0.91 ==

Since the guys over at [[Talk:Inkscape#Where_should_version_numbers_go?|Talk:Inkscape]] want to <s>degrade</s>downgrade Inkscape 0.91 to an unstable preview release, please [[Talk:Inkscape#Where_should_version_numbers_go?|chime in]] and voice your opinion.

Regards, --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87|talk]]) 17:40, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
:Wow! "Degrade" says it all! You have emotional attachments to this matter. That explains your rather furious comment to the person who said Option 2.

:Look, nobody said it is unstable. Just because we put the version number into the correct slot does not mean that we hate Inkscape. It is just pure professional decorum known as [[WP:NPOV]].
:Best regards,
:[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 08:41, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
:: a) My comment was not furious at all, I was just disappointed that Fleet Command started to blindly revert again after I had hoped we had settled that argument before and decided to discuss / find consent first. b) Yes you ''say'' it's unstable! By putting Inkscape 0.91 into the ''"latest preview release"'' field in contrast to the ''"latest stable release"'' field you explicitly declare it as unstable (that's the fundamental difference between those two fields and that's how we should use them). c) The only one that has a clear POV is you: In [[Special:Diff/654606374]] you explain that because Inkscape, does not have an RTM release, does not make money yet, and does not offer professional support, it's to be considered only as a testing/preview version. All this reasoning achieves is however digging a trench between commercial software and free software, since the concepts of [[software release life cycle]] you try to use often just do not apply to noncommercial software. By that I might even be a bit emotional since we should not at all cost come to the point where we badmouth free software here on Wikipedia in a desperate approach to create questionable policies and find a universal and consistent rule set of what makes a "stable" release stable. --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87|talk]]) 09:47, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

:::I agree with Codename Lisa that using the word "degrade" goes against our guidelines of [[WP:CAN|canvassing]]. If you want to invite other people to an ongoing discussion, please do so without taking sides. Anyway, please let's not rehash the Inkscape argument all over on this talk page. -- [[user:intgr|intgr]]&nbsp;<small>[[user talk:intgr|[talk]]]</small> 10:00, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

::::And his [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]] hurt! His use of informal fallacies certainly don't make things better, in this case [[equivocating]] and [[straw man]]. Best regards, [[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 12:58, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
::::: Sorry guys, but I definitely don't know what you're complaining about and I definitely didn't mean anything of it. Only thing I could imagine is that the the word "degrade" has some other meanings I didn't had in mind &ndash; maybe I should've used "downgrade". English is not my native language, and in my mother tongue [http://www.dict.cc/?s=herabstufen both words can have the same meaning]. In this case please re-read my sentence above like I intended it and stop always assuming bad faith. --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87|talk]]) 13:38, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::Still not an improvement. It is still a personal comment: It accuses "guys over at Talk:Inkscape" of some sort of misdeed. You continue with more personal attacks like "blindly reverted" whereas he provided three articles and a diagram that he himself hasn't made. And again, there is the equivocating and straw man problems, all of which are [[informal fallacies]]. Why don't you show a source that says final releases may start at 0.x instead of 1.x?
::::::Best regards,
::::::[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 14:48, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Can you provide a source that says final versions ''have'' to start at 1.x? Version numbers simply do not follow a mandatory scheme and therefore we at Wikipedia can not make one up on our own. The maintainer of a software decides which versioning scheme he/she wants to use, and we also have to accept bad decisions (like numbering stable version with < 1.0 which is uncommon but not against any policy). --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87|talk]]) 19:48, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Are you sure I didn't provide a source? To be more precise, are you sure, Fleet Command, I and Mark Viking didn't provide sources that contradict you?
::::::::Now, you've made several aberrant claims and are yet to fulfill your own [[WP:BURDEN]]. Furthermore, I am here to discuss constructively, make and respond to proposals and make compromises. Unless I see evidences of mutual cooperation, which I daresay are scarce at the moment, I am afraid I cannot keep it up.
::::::::Best regards,
::::::::[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 05:12, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::No you didn't. Re-read you "sources". Where does it say stable versions ''have'' to be assigned version numbers >1? Version numbering is pure convention that changes between developers/companies and might well change due to PR considerations (and there are plenty of sources for that). Maybe Inkscape should change it's convention for PR reasons (so there does not have to be a dispute like this) but it doesn't change the fact that Inkscape 0.91 is officially declared stable by it's developers (source: the official Inkscape homepage) and is the latest RTW version (source: the official Inkscape homepage). And in this there is no room for compromise with me (Inkscape 0.91 is stable and it's surely not a preview release). --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87|talk]]) 11:13, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::Disregard him, {{u|Codename Lisa}}. I know his type: He likes to cover his eyes and ears, pretend only he is right and the rest of the world is wrong, [[WP:IDHT|ignore all evidences to the contrary]]. Stubborn, that's what he is. Do you know how I found this page? Funny, the [[Talk:Inkscape]] was so silent that I thought I'd better make he hasn't taken the case elsewhere, gathering a cabal. I checked his contrib. log. 

::::::::::But that doesn't mean that others, including admins, are willing to cover their eyes and ears as well. I've jotted down my source URL, and the diff in which I gave my source, just in case. I suggest you do the same, in case this went to DRV, ANI or someplace not nice. [[User:FleetCommand|Fleet Command]] ([[User talk:FleetCommand|talk]]) 16:10, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::: Sorry if you feel left out of this discussion [[User:FleetCommand|Fleet Command]], but a) please note Codename Lisa was the one starting this (meta-)discussion; b) I'm not stubborn but convinced through evidence that Inkscape 0.91 is the latest stable release version of the project and not a preview; c) I read you sources and they actually ''support'' the fact that &ndash; although uncommon &ndash; version numbers < 1 might well be used for stable release versions in the Open Source world. <small>And last but not least d) I wont even bother to answer your personal attacks and the fact that you bring up some "not nice places" I've never been to before speaks its own language. Personally I'd never even considered anything close for a stupid dispute like this.</small> --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87|talk]]) 22:50, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::{{Reply to|FleetCommand}} I am also a little concerned about your battlefield-like mentality. Maybe it is a lawyer-like mentality and your comment is born from caution, not the willingness to fight, but I'd like to make it clear that solving Patrick87's problem takes precedence over whatever action that may lead to his exclusion from the article or project. If only he acknowledged that I am not seeing it the way he is seeing it, and that it is not a sin. Best regards, [[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 09:33, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

{{deindent}}
Please keep Inkscape-related discussion on [[Talk:Inkscape]], no need to spill over to here and fragment the discussions. And please stick to actual arguments, rather than insinuating personal attacks or unwillingness to listen. If you can't make progress, seek additional [[WP:DISPUTE|dispute resolution]]. -- [[user:intgr|intgr]]&nbsp;<small>[[user talk:intgr|[talk]]]</small> 12:47, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

==Notification of nomination for deletion of [[AUCS Linux]]== 
This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this article falls, that this article has been [[WP:AFD|nominated for deletion]] at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/AUCS Linux]]. - [[User:Ahunt|Ahunt]] ([[User talk:Ahunt|talk]]) 20:08, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

== [[Q&A software#Comparison of Q&A software|Comparison of Q&A software]] ==

Help appreciated with this table. --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 14:24, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== New software article I'm sending to AfC soon - requesting opinions ==

Just looking to get some preliminary pointers on my draft article [[User:BlusterBlaster/sandbox/FamiTracker_(draft)|here]] before I let the AfC review decide its fate. I realize the notability thing might be a stretch, especially since I don't have any material to build a development section like a lot of other sofware articles have, but I tried my best to make do with what I found-- if you guys in [[WP:SOFTWARE]] have recommendations past this point, I'd love to know. [[User:BlusterBlaster|BlusterBlaster]]<sup>[[User talk:BlusterBlaster|''kablooie!'']]</sup> 21:35, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
: Hi {{u|BusterBlaster}}, looks like you have put a lot of work into that article. I am sorry to say, it probably won't get too far, because the references are almost all from the software maker's own site. It's important to have substantial coverage in ''independent'' [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] (like software magazines, for instance) in order to establish [[WP:N|notability]] of the topic. And all facts in the article should be cited to sources like that. The detailed rundown of software changes is not typically used in a Wikipedia article, for instance. I am sorry to bear bad news, but I think this article is pretty far from being accepted at AfC.
: One related question -- do you work for the company? If so, you should make sure to disclose that connection on your user page and on the article's talk page if it gets published. 
: Regardless, thank you for your efforts, and I wish you well in your Wikipedia efforts! -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 23:16, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

::All hope is not lost. There does seem to be coverage of this software: [http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/5/3727418/blip-festival-tokyo-chiptunes-photos], [http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331653031806/shovel-knight-digs-its-way-onto-wii-u], [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/237629/Road_to_the_IGF_Yacht_Club_Games_Shovel_Knight.php], [http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/02/music_heres_the_entire_gradius_iii_soundtrack_in_nes_style_just_because], [http://tidbits.com/article/15290]. AfC reviewers shouldn't be looking for a polished article they should be looking for a good start on a notable topic. Include some of the above to demonstrate notability. You need a minimum of two [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. I would remove the revision history for now because that will just give reviewers a reason to reject. If the submission is rejected, don't give up. The AfC process is iterative. If at all possible, improve the submission as directed and resubmit. When it is working well, AfC should help new editors improve. ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 00:19, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointers, guys.  For the record, {{reply to|User:Peteforsyth}} I'm not affiliated with jsr in any way, I'm just familiar with the software as someone who does music production-- I guess it comes at a risk that my prose would be biased since I really like FamiTracker, but I've been making doubly sure to keep it NPOV. I didn't figure that really uncontroversial or plainfaced technical details being cited back to the developer's website would be a ''huge'' issue; per [[WP:PRIMARY]], stuff like that being cited from the developer's own mouth is okay as long as we're not putting any "spin" or interpretation to it that isn't through a secondary or tertiary source's lens.

{{reply to|User:Kvng}} I did see a couple of the articles you suggested before, but I was hesitant to add them based on the fact that a lot of them are republishing/parroting info from Gamasutra's interview of Kaufman re: Shovel Knight, and I wouldn't really be able to do much with the same info in different places as far as I know. Still, thanks for going to the trouble of finding those sources. Later on today I'll see if I can put them to use. [[User:BlusterBlaster|BlusterBlaster]]<sup>[[User talk:BlusterBlaster|''kablooie!'']]</sup> 13:19, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

:The same information covered in multiple sources is not important for [[WP:V|verifiability]] but it is important for establishing [[WP:N|notability]]. Parroting by [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] indicates that editors of secondary sources have deemed the subject is worthy of coverage and that's what establishes notability as far aw Wikipedia is concerned. To get through AfC, you're probably going to want more citations that you would otherwise have for a short article. ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 13:59, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
:: All good advice {{u|Kvng}}. Good luck {{u|BusterBlaster}}! -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 15:17, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Okay, I'll keep that in mind and try to reinforce the draft based on that principle. Thanks again, you're all so nice! One more question for {{reply to|User:Kvng}} What did you mean by "removing the revision history"? [[User:BlusterBlaster|BlusterBlaster]]<sup>[[User talk:BlusterBlaster|''kablooie!'']]</sup> 17:23, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
:{{u|Peteforsyth}} was the one who brought that up, "The detailed rundown of software changes is not typically used in a Wikipedia article." [[Wikipedia:Notability_(software)#Style_guide|Here's]] the guidelines on that. ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 13:18, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
::Alright. In that case I'll probably just pare that section down to one sentence explaining the sort of things the updates changed. Thanks. [[User:BlusterBlaster|BlusterBlaster]]<sup>[[User talk:BlusterBlaster|''kablooie!'']]</sup> 17:08, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

== Question re: classifying a music app  ==

I asked this on WPMUSIC but I was directed to go here, so here I am again.

I'm building an article for the iOS music sequencer app [[User:BlusterBlaster/sandbox/Auxy (draft)|Auxy]], but I'm just trying to figure out how to describe what kind of music-making app it is, because it kind of operates as a combination of a piano roll and drum machine/sequencer sort of thing like a Korg drumpad... no RSes describe the app in more specific terms than a "music app" that I've seen, but would calling it a "sequencer"-style music editor app or something like that suffice? I dunno if I'm splitting hairs at this point and should just call it a "sequencer" app. Opinions? [[User:BlusterBlaster|BlusterBlaster]]<sup>[[User talk:BlusterBlaster|''kablooie!'']]</sup> 16:40, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

:I think you're splitting hairs and debating with yourself. Why not start by calling it a ''music app'' and see how that looks to you and other editors. ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 20:10, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

:Is it up to being called a digital audio workstation? - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 20:12, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, guys - [[User:BlusterBlaster/sandbox/Auxy_(draft)|this]] is what I've worked out so far on this draft, so let me know any suggestions you have for it (right off the bat I can definitely say it needs images of the app icon and a screenshot for the infobox, but AFAIK I can't upload any images until this goes live and outside of userspace, so I'm holding off on uploading those until then). [[User:BlusterBlaster|BlusterBlaster]]<sup>[[User talk:BlusterBlaster|''kablooie!'']]</sup> 16:09, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

== Notability of [[Stella (software)]] ==

[[Stella (software)|Stella]] is an app for depicting geometrical shapes called polyhedra. It is widely used by polyhedronists but, because little has been written about it ''per se'', it is difficult to provide citations to support its notability and it has been templated for possible deletion. I am sure that this issue must dog other apps which might be popular in their field but little known outside of it. Is there any Project guideline or core of wisdom on what kind of citation material to look out for? Any practical help would also be much appreciated. &mdash; Cheers, [[User:Steelpillow|Steelpillow]] ([[User Talk:Steelpillow|Talk]]) 17:12, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

: Hello!  I know first-hand how difficult it can be to fulfill [[WP:NOTABILITY|notability]] requirements for technical articles, and how awkward is the requirement for providing non-primary [[WP:RS|sources]] where they will probably never be available (for example, when describing the internals of an immature and still rapidly developed but widely used software project).  However, that's what it is, those are the rules Wikipedia runs by. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 18:44, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

:If the software is well loved within an academic field, you may find good refs in academic papers by researchers that use the tool. The papers do not need to be about the tool to qualify but they do need to contain [[WP:SIGCOV|significant coverage]]; some description of the tool and how it works, not just a namedrop. These sources may be found at a university libray, [https://scholar.google.com/ Google Scholar] or [[WP:LIBRARY]]. ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 19:06, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

==Copyright Violation Detection - EranBot Project==
A new copy-paste detection bot is now in general use on English Wikipedia. Come check it out at the [[User:EranBot/Copyright/rc|EranBot reporting page]]. This bot utilizes the [[Turnitin |Turnitin software]] (ithenticate), unlike [[User:CorenSearchBot]] that relies on a web search API from Yahoo. It checks individual edits rather than just new articles. Please take 15 seconds to visit the [[User:EranBot/Copyright/rc|EranBot reporting page]] and check a few of the flagged concerns.  Comments welcome regarding potential improvements. These likely copyright violations can be searched by WikiProject categories.  Use "control-f" to jump to your area of interest (if such a copyvio is present). --[[User:Lucas559|Lucas559]] ([[User talk:Lucas559|talk]]) 15:28, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

== Move request at Talk:Virtual disk ==

Hi.

There is a move request at {{section link|Talk:Virtual disk|Requested move 11 July 2015}}, which I believe concerns this project. (It is not automatically listed in [[WP:SOFTW/AA]].) Participants are welcome.

Best regards,<br/>[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 19:38, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

== Uber RfC ==

Hi WikiProject Software. There is a [[Talk:Uber_(company)#Proposal_for_Company_History|Request for Comment]] on the [[Uber (company)|Uber]] article Talk page regarding the description of the company's growth and history in the article. Since I think the article is of interest to this WikiProject, editors here may want to join the discussion. The question under discussion is how Uber's history might be best summarized within subsections. [[User:Craig at Uber|Craig at Uber]] ([[User talk:Craig at Uber|talk]]) 20:18, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

== RfC: On Software Notability. ==

There is currently a RfC on the topic of software notability at [[Wikipedia talk:Notability (software)]]. Interested editors are requested to comment. :) [[User:Noian|<span style="color:red;">'''&eta;oian'''</span>]] [[User talk:Noian|<small><span style="color:MediumSeaGreen;">''&Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers''</span></small>]] 09:16, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

== Proposing deletion / redirection for ''Citrix Online'' ==

Hi there. I'm looking for editors interested in software companies. If anyone here is willing and interested, I'd love to get another perspective on a proposal I've put forward to redirect the '''[[Citrix Online]]''' article to the [[Citrix Systems]] article. I am working as a paid consultant to Citrix, so I won't be making any edits to the article. I would like to discuss possible [[Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#Redirection|blanking and redirection]] over [[Talk:Citrix_Online|here on the article's talk page]]. Thanks! [[User:16912_Rhiannon|16912 Rhiannon]] ([[User talk:16912_Rhiannon|Talk]] · [[User:16912_Rhiannon|COI]])  20:48, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

==Outlook-related edits by [[User:Ians18]]==
Greetings, everyone. Our fellow Wikipedian [[User:Ians18]] has engaged in a number of edits that I find highly controversial; they are being discussed in {{section link|Outlook.com|Requested move 17 August 2015}}. ''I believe we need additional input.'' A summary of the dispute is as follows:

Traditionally, both [[Microsoft Outlook]] and [[Outlook Web App|Outlook Web App / Outlook on the web]] had four modules: Mail, Calendar, Contacts (or People) and Tasks.  But Ians18 changed the names of [[:Outlook.com]], [[:Calendar (Microsoft service)]] and [[:People (Microsoft service)]] into Outlook Mail, Outlook Calendar and Outlook People and merged Outlook Web App into Outlook.com. He initially said that they are actually renamed, but now has retreated to the position of "their rename is announced and will definitely happen". I, however, cannot see any of these and believe he has taken too much for granted, is sailing too close to [[WP:CRYSTAL]], and his point of view is badly influenced by being an [[Office 365]] user.

Additional input is welcome. [[User:FleetCommand|Fleet Command]] ([[User talk:FleetCommand|talk]]) 12:08, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Echo (Cloud Services)]] ==

Hello computer software experts.  This old AfC draft appears to have references.  Is this a notable software company, and are the references suitable?&mdash;[[User:Anne Delong|Anne Delong]] ([[User talk:Anne Delong|talk]]) 04:44, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

== students in high school who wanna learn hacking  ==

Umm, frist i will like to talk about we the teeneagers who wanna learn haking.I am pleading with the wikipedia to help us and bring us to the world of hackin thank you am ahmad adams fro nigeria  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/41.220.68.78|41.220.68.78]] ([[User talk:41.220.68.78|talk]]) 20:40, 24 September 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== More on importance scale ==

It seems to me that some information about Importance is missing:
* Where do those criteria come from? Is there a specific Talk / discussion for them?
* Where should be discussed the importance rate of a specific article? [[User:Gabriware|Gabriware]] ([[User talk:Gabriware|talk]]) 16:19, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

::[[WP:COMPUTING]] has more detailed descriptions of improtance that may be applicable to software topics. See [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Computing/Assessment#Importance]]. ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 13:31, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

== Computer Program RfC ==

I question the validity of recent edits in [[Computer Program]] and would like comments from other editors. [[User:Timhowardriley|Timhowardriley]] ([[User talk:Timhowardriley|talk]]) 19:58, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

:Looks like a bunch of work has been done to the article by {{u|Timhowardriley}} and others since this posting. Is there still an issue here? ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 16:31, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

::WikiLife is again good. [[User:Timhowardriley|Timhowardriley]] ([[User talk:Timhowardriley|talk]]) 16:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

:::Amen to that!
:::But, {{u|Kvng}}, I think you should give more credit to "and others" because as soon as they came, the discussion was rolling.
:::Best regards,
:::[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 09:27, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

== [[Smartsheet]] ==

I have posted a request edit on the Talk page requesting consideration of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Smartsheet/draft a ~10 paragraph draft] as a more complete/neutral/researched page. The article's content has indications of likely conflicted editing in the past and I think this will put it in a better place. Any thoughts from folks familiar with software pages would be welcome. Cheers.  [[User:CorporateM|David King, Ethical Wiki]] ([[User_talk:CorporateM|Talk]]) 06:23, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

== 3D Software - Autodesk Fusion 360 ==

I just noticed that Autodesk Fusion 360 is missing on this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_3D_modeling_software

It's commercial and free for hobbyists/students. (And awesome btw).  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/84.143.220.105|84.143.220.105]] ([[User talk:84.143.220.105|talk]]) 20:25, 11 November 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
(Wikipedia confuses me a lot, someone please delete this after adding the software to the list. Sorry.)  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/84.143.220.105|84.143.220.105]] ([[User talk:84.143.220.105|talk]]) 20:28, 11 November 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Discussion to Implement InfoBox Software : source code ==


In different circumstances, product website urls are distinct from their source code urls.  It would be helpful to amend the Infobox for software, to include:

| website                = {{URL|example.org}}

'''| source code            = {{URL|example.org}}'''

Not particularly certain on how to SandBox that proposal, as it appears locked.
Thanks! --Elika Kohen 02:38, 12 November 2015 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Elikakohen|Elikakohen]] ([[User talk:Elikakohen|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Elikakohen|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:'''Oppose'''. An external link to source code repository is not sanctioned by [[Wikipedia:External links]]. Specifically, link to "Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond [[WP:FACR|what the article would contain if it became a featured article]]" must be avoided. Best regards, [[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 12:48, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

== Is [[Fldigi]] notable? ==

I prodded it, but the creator argues ([[Talk:Fldigi]]) it's notable in light of [[WP:NSOFT]]. It's not my area of expertise, the sources look weak, but before I go to AfD, I'd like a 30 from here. AfD or not? What do you say, software experts? --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 07:04, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

:Created by someone at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Amateur radio]] fwiw, so quite possibly notable in that field ... though the third-party sources on the article as it stands are basically blogs - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 16:44, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Fldigi is notable enough that it is in the "[https://books.google.com/books?id=lftQAQAAQBAJ&pg=PT132&dq=fldigi&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAWoVChMI6cC7hqOUyQIVyjEmCh020wNm#v=onepage&q=fldigi&f=false Ham Radio for Dummies] " book as the simplest way to start decoding digital signals.
To quote the book: "By far the most popular program of 2014 is Fldigi, by W1HKJ." (among soundcard-digital modem software)

[[User:Kf4yfd|kf4yfd]] ([[User talk:Kf4yfd|talk]]) 06:10, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

== This article is a stub.  ==

Only describe one very small aspect of a huge IEC 62304 standard.  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/216.75.211.6|216.75.211.6]] ([[User talk:216.75.211.6|talk]]) 19:04, 15 October 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I have marked [[IEC 62304]] as a stub. ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 13:55, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

== cdrkit, cdrtools, Schily and [[List of software forks]] ==

See [[Talk:List of software forks]]. Joerg Schilling insists the cdrtools/cdrkit fork happened in 2004 not 2006, won't provide a third-party RS and claims the third-party RS that does exist ([[LWN.net]]) isn't good enough. Poster is also being abusive and using the talk page for possibly BLP-violating personal attacks on others. He first raised this a few years ago and couldn't provide RSes to support his claim then either. I realise he feels quite strongly about the issue, but that doesn't make his view an encyclopedic claim, and doesn't licence the abusiveness. Could others please have a look at the issue in case I'm actually completely wrong? - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 16:37, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
:Hello, David

:Have you ever experienced the state of being utterly miserable and completely out of all options? Because there is good chance you might experience it if you stick around this certain subject long enough. So, speaking strictly for myself, while I believe everything you said above without checking them, I don't believe I can do anything about it if you cannot. I don't believe anyone without a form of high authority can.

:Best regards,
:[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 23:23, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

:{{ping|David Gerard}} It sounds like [[WP:ANI]] would be the right venue for your query. If there are consistent issues with civility, RS and BLP, this should probably be discussed. Ping me when you do as I may have additional thoughts on this. Thanks. [[User:Samsara|Samsara]] 19:41, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

::Mr Schilling seems to have calmed down now, but yeah, if it starts again you're right about the place to go - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 22:03, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

=="WikiProject iOS"==
Someone has made a request to merge WPiOS inot WPAppleInc, for the discussion, see [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject iOS]] -- [[Special:Contributions/70.51.44.60|70.51.44.60]] ([[User talk:70.51.44.60|talk]]) 05:28, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
==software infobox==
Hi !

Not quite sure which portal or project is maintaning the the infobox and templates for software articles, so i'm asking that question here. At [[GeoGebra]] i noticed the peculiar behaviour that the version display is stuck at 5.0.180 and doesn't match anymore the value that was entered via the linked template which is currently at 5.0.187. Does anybody know why that is and how to fix that?--[[User:Kmhkmh|Kmhkmh]] ([[User talk:Kmhkmh|talk]]) 22:33, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
:Hello, {{u|Kmhkmh}}

:I am look at the article right now and I clearly see 5.0.187. (Did you refresh the article after changing its template? {{p|;)}})

:Software Project is the correct place to ask this question. But you should try the talk page of the template in question first. For example, in this case, the template is {{tl|Infobox software}}. Click on its link and then go to its talk page.

:Best regards,
:[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 00:35, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
::Odd, now I see the correct value too after not seeing it for the last 2 days and yes of course I did the article refresh/reload. Maybe there was some cache refresh (needed) somewhere. Anyhow thanks for taking a look.--[[User:Kmhkmh|Kmhkmh]] ([[User talk:Kmhkmh|talk]]) 00:53, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

== Biased instance of "Windows is insecure" edits ==
{{Resolved|The issue is handled by {{u|DVdm}} and {{u|CambridgeBayWeather}}. [[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 11:39, 25 December 2015 (UTC)}}
Hi.

A person with at least two different IP addresses ([[Special:Contributions/84.153.129.232]] and [[Special:Contributions/84.153.152.170]]) has been engaged in edits that seems to me ... well, biased (Windows-phobic) and poorly sourced ([[WP:SPS]], a newsgroup) in the following articles:
* [[Template:PMS vs Installer]]
* [[Inno Setup]]
* [[Nullsoft Scriptable Install System]]
* [[7-Zip]]

I have reverted him once and he has counter-reverted, with some rather ... well, some remarks. Now, I don't want to form an ''ad hominem'' bias myself, so I'd be grateful if another editor review those edits.

Best regards,<br/>[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 11:25, 25 December 2015 (UTC)