View source for Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 October 5

<noinclude><div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 0 auto; padding: 0 1px 0 0; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; font-size:10px">
{| width = "100%"
|-
! width="50%" align="left"  | <span style="color:gray">&lt;</span> [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 October 4|October 4]]
! width="50%" align="right" | [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 October 6|October 6]] <span style="color:gray">&gt;</span>
|}</div></noinclude>
===October 5===
[[Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed|{{PAGENAME}}]]
<!-- Add new listings at the top of the list with the following formats for deletion and merging respectively:

{{subst:Tfd2|TemplateName|text=Why you think the template should be deleted. ~~~~}}
{{subst:Tfm2|TemplateName|OtherTemplate|text=Why you think the template should be merged. ~~~~}}

-->
==== [[Template:Mava Marafane]] ====
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''

The result of the discussion was '''delete'''<!-- Tfd top -->. — [[User:RHaworth|RHaworth]] ([[User talk:RHaworth|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/RHaworth|contribs]]) 08:56, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
* {{Tfd links|Mava Marafane|module=}}
This page is not a template but a CV article which might qualify for speedy deletion as [[WP:A7]]: no indication of importance. [[User:Certes|Certes]] ([[User talk:Certes|talk]]) 23:29, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''</div>

==== {{anchor|Template:Divbox/style/amber}} [[Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Divbox/style/|Template:Divbox/style/''x'']] ====
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''

The result of the discussion was '''relisted'''<!-- Tfd top --> on [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 October 14#Template:Divbox/style/x|2018 October 14]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Hhkohh|Hhkohh]] ([[User talk:Hhkohh|talk]]) 09:27, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''</div>

==== [[Module:Linguistic]] ====
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''

The result of the discussion was '''delete'''<!-- Tfd top -->. [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] [[User talk:Plastikspork|<sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ</sub><sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)</sup>]] 02:12, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
* {{Tfd links|Linguistic|module=Module:}}
The English Wikipedia does not need to have a module of this sort: it is written in English and there is no reason to write code that dynamically conjugates text in other languages.  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 23:45, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' This is module was previously deleted at [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Module:Linguistic]], but I nominated here instead of using G4 because that nomination was a "cleanup unused modules" one, and this one is fundamentally attacking the idea of this module as unnecessary for mono-lingual wikipedias. Pinging participants from previous discussion: {{ping|Godsy|Robert McClenon|Snaevar}}.  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 23:54, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
* '''Comment:''' On the contrary, if we want our code modules to be inter-operable with those on other language Wikipedias, then we will need modules that handle linguistic translations. We are not working in a walled garden: our sister projects want to make use of the modules we create, just as we want to make use of the modules created elsewhere. Nevertheless, in this particular case, [[Module:Linguistic]] is not directly used by other modules on English Wikipedia, so I can't see harm in deleting it, on the understanding that it can be recreated any time that it is needed by other modules. --[[User:RexxS|RexxS]] ([[User talk:RexxS|talk]]) 00:08, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' - I didn't understand in June 2017, and I don't understand in September 2018.  I infer that this module has something to do with support for multiple languages, and that the English Wikipedia is monolingual.  If this module is used by other Wikipedias, why is it in the English Wikipedia?  If they are calling it, it sounds like [[spaghetti code|spaghetti inheritance]].  On the one hand, I don't know why it is here.  On the other hand, I don't know why we should break it if it isn't broken.  Therefore:
* '''Weak Delete''' [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 00:33, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
*: The reason it is here is because some users (not including me) want modules to be character-for-character identical (with the possible exception of <code>require</code> sections at the beginning) to the corresponding modules on other wikis like Commons, where this module is obviously needed, and therefore this module has to exist here in their eyes. I disagree with this goal, as I think it leads to pointless code bloat on non-multilingual wikis, and that combined with my general tendency to try to clean module namespace leads me to this deletion nomination.
*: The only code that uses this module right now is [[Module:i18n/complex date]], which is itself more multi-lingual stuff that could easily be simplified to use just English.  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 00:59, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
*: What you are calling "spaghetti code" is rife throughout all modules in the English Wikipedia: there is a tendency to import a module, and then import all its dependencies even when local modules already exist to do the same thing (and sometimes even !vote keep when the dependencies are TfDed, see [[Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2018_May_29#Module:TemplateData_dependencies]]).  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 01:10, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' It is currently used by over 60,000 pages through [[Module:I18n/complex date]] -> [[Module:Complex date]] -> [[Module:WikidataIB]], where it is necessary to keep the code consistent across multiple Wikimedia projects. Consider deprecating it first, if you can do so without removing the functionality that's currently used across the 13 projects (according to sitelinks at {{Q|Q20739902}}). Thanks. [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 09:36, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
*: False. None of those pages actually <b>used</b> any code from [[Module:Linguistic]], only <syntaxhighlight lang="lua" inline>require</syntaxhighlight>d it, as can be seen the fact that [[Module:Linguistic]] is now unused after I [[Special:Diff/859590416|modified Module:I18n/complex date]] to require the module only when needed.  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 14:54, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
* '''delete''', unused and not needed. [[User:Frietjes|Frietjes]] ([[User talk:Frietjes|talk]]) 13:06, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' As of now, no consensus at the moment<br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Pkbwcgs|Pkbwcgs]] ([[User talk:Pkbwcgs|talk]]) 17:46, 25 September 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Still no consensus<br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Pkbwcgs|Pkbwcgs]] ([[User talk:Pkbwcgs|talk]]) 17:07, 5 October 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''</div>

==== [[Template:Bku]] ====
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''

The result of the discussion was '''keep'''<!-- Tfd top -->. This did not need bringing up at [[WP:TFD]]. The matter could be discussed at [[Template talk:Bku]] and specialist input sought at [[WP:VPT]] and/or [[WP:BOTREQ]]. I will close this and make a post at the template talk. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 06:47, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
* {{Tfd links|Bku|module=|type=refactor}}
'''Propose refactoring''' [[Template:Bku]].<br />
This isn't really a merge as much as it is a refactor. Every other flag template I have seen takes the nation param first and the descriptor param second. Should this template be redone so that it works as {{tlx|bku|ESP|18}} instead of the current format of {{tlx|bku|18|ESP}}? '''[[User:Zackmann08|<span style="color:#00ced1">Zack</span><span style="color:#007F94">mann</span>]]''' (<sup>[[User_talk:Zackmann08|Talk to me]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Zackmann08|<span style="color:orange;">What I been doing</span>]]</sub>) 18:00, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
*'''comment''' there really is no difference, I see no purpose on that. PS next time adding this "merge/delete template" remember not to include whitespace between this and template start. --[[User:Pelmeen10|Pelmeen10]] ([[User talk:Pelmeen10|talk]]) 00:37, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' {{ping|Zackmann08}} - {{tl|N/a}} is tagged with TfD. I cant see how and why that template should be merged with Bku - a mistake? [[User:Christian75|Christian75]] ([[User talk:Christian75|talk]]) 06:08, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
**  [[User:Christian75|Christian75]], [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ABku&type=revision&diff=861592493&oldid=861514999 fixed here] and [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AN%2Fa&type=revision&diff=861568759&oldid=861474485 here]. [[User:Frietjes|Frietjes]] ([[User talk:Frietjes|talk]]) 15:27, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
* '''Explination''' allow me to explain... I was attempting to start a discussion about {{tl|Bku}}. I used [[WP:TWINKLE]] to nominate the template and when I got to the 'template to merge' field in the popup I simple put N/A because it wasn't a merge I was considering, but a discussion that I wanted to start. What I failed to realized is that this went and tagged the template {{tl|N/a}} as well. This was obviously an error on my part and I do apologize for the mistake. 
: Now with regards to this nomination, {{ping|Pelmeen10}} the reason that this is an issue has to do with the way other templates interact with these. Specifically I came across the issue when using {{tl|Medals table}}. What this template does is take two params {{param|flag_template}} & {{param|event}}. These parmas are used in conjunction with the various 3 letter nation codes to produce things like {{tlx|flagIOC2team|GRE|2004 Summer}} where flag_template = ''flagIOC2team'' and event = ''2004 Summer''. So far, every single flag template I have come across is setup in the format {{Tlc|<template_name>|<country_code>|<optional_descriptor>}}. The only exceptions that I have found so far are {{tl|bku}} and {{tl|Fbwu}}. I don't doubt there are others. So what I am proposing is that we try to keep things consistent. Instead of being formatted as {{tlc|bku|<descriptor>|<country_code>}}, I propose flipping this around to be {{tlc|bku|<country_code>|<descriptor>}}. The template only has 277 transclusions at the moment and most of those are within medal tables that I will be cleaning up as part of converting them to use {{tl|Medals table}} anyway so I would gladly take responsibility for updating every single transclusion of the template but I want to make sure that I do so after a discussion has been had. 
:Hopefully this explanation answers the questions you all had. If not, please let me know! --'''[[User:Zackmann08|<span style="color:#00ced1">Zack</span><span style="color:#007F94">mann</span>]]''' (<sup>[[User_talk:Zackmann08|Talk to me]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Zackmann08|<span style="color:orange;">What I been doing</span>]]</sub>) 16:23, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Pkbwcgs|Pkbwcgs]] ([[User talk:Pkbwcgs|talk]]) 14:59, 5 October 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''</div>

==== [[Template:United Football League (2009) team]] ====
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''

The result of the discussion was '''split result'''<!-- Tfd top -->. 
*'''Merge''' [[Template:United Football League (2009) team]] to [[Template:Infobox_American_football_team]]
*'''No consensus''' on [[Template:Infobox NFL team]]
There is a relatively strong consensus to fold in the UFL template into the American football infobox, but with two templates being discussed the opinions are mixed (if even present) for the NFL infobox. There is [[WP:NPASR|NPASR]] for the latter template. [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 13:58, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
* {{Tfd links|United Football League (2009) team|module=|type=merge}}
* {{Tfd links|Infobox NFL team|module=|type=merge}}
'''Propose merging''' [[Template:United Football League (2009) team]] with [[Template:Infobox NFL team]].<br />
[[User:Zackmann08|<span style="color:DarkTurquoise;">Zackmann08</span>]] (<sup>[[User_talk:Zackmann08|Talk to me]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Zackmann08|<span style="color:orange;">What I been doing</span>]]</sub>) 02:12, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The UFL is not the NFL. The XFL teams such as the [[Las Vegas Outlaws]] uses [[Template:Infobox sports team]]. <s>I would support that instead.</s>[[User:UCO2009bluejay|UCO2009bluejay]] ([[User talk:UCO2009bluejay|talk]]) 20:02, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|UCO2009bluejay}} that is a VERY valid point... I was thinking "their both football teams..." but I agree with you. Should I close this and re-nominate or should we just change this discussion to be merging the template to {{tl|infobox sports team}}? --[[User:Zackmann08|<span style="color:DarkTurquoise;">Zackmann08</span>]] (<sup>[[User_talk:Zackmann08|Talk to me]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Zackmann08|<span style="color:orange;">What I been doing</span>]]</sub>) 16:54, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Keep it open until consensus arrives. If it's not a clear support, then open another one under infobox sports team (which I would oppose, BTW). ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 21:20, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
*'''Merge both''' to [[Template:Infobox American football team]]. League-specific infoboxes are not needed. [[User:Armbrust|Armbrust]] <sup>[[User talk:Armbrust|<span style="color: #E3A857;">The</span> <span style="color: #008000;">Homunculus</span>]]</sup> 20:30, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
:I don't usually discuss things on Tfds and I don't know how it works so I would suggest that if UFL should be merged it would be to the American football template. The NFL has a few different parameters. I've posted a link to this discussion on the [[WT:NFL|NFL project talk page]]. I am unaware of their feelings on this topic, but they should be discussed.[[User:UCO2009bluejay|UCO2009bluejay]] ([[User talk:UCO2009bluejay|talk]]) 21:11, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
*'''Merge both''' to [[Template:Infobox American football team]] and redo the template to remove any unneeded parameters (like helmet size, really?). I don't see how NFL and UFL teams would use so many different parameters that they need to be separate. All the basic ones, like name, colors, foundation date, owner, are ubiquitous. ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 21:19, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
**I think you've missed the point of the "helmetsize" parameter. It's not because players wear helmets of different sizes, it's so that they can set the size of the image of the team's helmet. – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 11:22, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
:::{{Ping|PeeJay2K3}} Actually Dissident meant that helmet size is a defunct parameter.-[[User:UCO2009bluejay|UCO2009bluejay]] ([[User talk:UCO2009bluejay|talk]]) 19:35, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
::::This should be automatically handled anyway. ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 23:10, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
*Wow I can't remember the last time I changed my own mind so many times! I support the comments above and am glad to see others pointing out issues! I think we need to identify the ultimate "parent" template and see if there are any other templates that fit with this merge. --'''[[User:Zackmann08|<span style="color:#00ced1">Zack</span><span style="color:#007F94">mann</span>]]''' (<sup>[[User_talk:Zackmann08|Talk to me]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Zackmann08|<span style="color:orange;">What I been doing</span>]]</sub>) 21:39, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Pkbwcgs|Pkbwcgs]] ([[User talk:Pkbwcgs|talk]]) 19:48, 25 September 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
*'''merge only''' "United Football League (2009) team" but not "Infobox NFL team" which has more opportunities and looks somewhat better than "infobox American football team". I'd like to see how would any of the current NFL team (example [[Miami Dolphins]]) look if the current infobox would be merged. I would reconsider if someone can prove me this is sensible idea. --[[User:Pelmeen10|Pelmeen10]] ([[User talk:Pelmeen10|talk]]) 00:57, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
*'''Merge both''' as these infoboxes are virtually the same as [[Template:United Football League (2009) team]] which is more widely used anyway.  —[[User talk:Mythdon|<span style="color:green">Mythdon</span>]] 09:30, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
* I suggest replacing uses of [[Template:United Football League (2009) team]] with [[Template:Infobox American football team]], as its functionality is covered by the latter. Don't merge [[Template:Infobox NFL team]] - it has NFL-specific functionality. — [[User:RockMFR|RockMFR]] 00:21, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
* I would suggest merging [[Template:United Football League (2009) team]] with [[Template:Infobox American football team]] but set up with the parameters of [[Template:Infobox indoor American football team]]. [[Template:Infobox indoor American football team]] is supported with [[Module:Gridiron color/data]]. [[User:DMC511|DMC511]] ([[User talk:DMC511|talk]]) 03:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Galobtter|Galobtter]] ([[User talk:Galobtter|pingó mió]]) 08:10, 5 October 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''</div>