View source for Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 April 5

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===April 5===
[[Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed|{{PAGENAME}}]]
<!-- Add new listings at the top of the list with the following formats for deletion and merging respectively:

{{subst:Tfd2|TemplateName|text=Why you think the template should be deleted. ~~~~}}
{{subst:Tfm2|TemplateName|OtherTemplate|text=Why you think the template should be merged. ~~~~}}

-->
==== Red and green table highlights ====
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''

The result of the discussion was '''merge'''<!-- Tfd top --> into {{t|yes}} and {{t|no}} accordingly (and leave redirects), ensuring that any uses that have parameters are adequately dealt with. [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 02:10, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
* {{Tfd links|Bad|type=merge}}
* {{Tfd links|No|type=merge}}
* {{Tfd links|Available|type=merge}}
* {{Tfd links|Contained|type=merge}}
* {{Tfd links|Yes|type=merge}}
'''Propose redirecting''' [[Template:Bad]] to [[Template:No]].

'''Propose redirecting (or deleting if consensus is in favor)''' [[Template:Available]] and [[Template:Contained]] to [[Template:Yes]]

Compare the appearances: 
{| class="wikitable"
!Template
! Total transclusions
! No-parameter transclusions
|-
| {{bad|Bad}} || {{TC|bad|192}} || {{sl|hastemplate:bad insource:/\{<nowiki></nowiki>{2}\s*[Bb]ad\s*\}{2}/|3 (user-space)|ns=all}}
|-
| {{no}} || {{TC|no|3981}} || {{sl|hastemplate:no insource:/\{<nowiki></nowiki>{2}\s*[Nn]o\s*\}{2}/|n/a (2,648)|ns=all}}
|-
| {{available|Available}} || {{TC|available|107}} || {{sl|hastemplate:available insource:/\{<nowiki></nowiki>{2}\s*[Aa]vailable\s*\}{2}/|1 (mainspace)|ns=all}}
|-
| {{contained|Contained}} || {{TC|contained|105}} || {{sl|hastemplate:contained insource:/\{<nowiki></nowiki>{2}\s*[Cc]ontained\s*\}{2}/|4 (2 mainspace, 2 userspace)|ns=all}}
|-
| {{yes}} || {{TC|yes|5407}} || {{sl|hastemplate:yes insource:/\{<nowiki></nowiki>{2}\s*[Yy]es\s*\}{2}/|n/a (3,849)|ns=all}}
|}

<small>Note: The transclusions on [[Template:Table cell templates/doc]] were not included in the above transclusion counts.</small>

The number of no-parameter transclusions is the most relevant number for this request. It shows that the proposed templates are very rarely used to display the default text, which makes them functional duplicates of the more popular highlighting templates. This also means the redirect (or deletion) can be very easily implemented, only replacing the text on a handful of pages.
{{tlf|bad}} has a slightly different color than {{tlf|no}} (#faa vs. #F99), but they were the same in the template's history. <span class="plainlinks">[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Bad&diff=618045240&oldid=530792902 This color change]</span> to {{tlf|bad}} was made by {{u|Telpardec}} to {{tq|lighten the background for better contrast ratio with non-black foreground}}. With consensus, this change could be implemented to {{tlf|no}} as part of the merging.

I was in a hurry when I originally made this request, and made a few formatting mistakes which Pppery nicely corrected; the relevant discussion is collapsed below. '''Edit: Revised and broadened.''' [[User:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:red">E to the Pi times i</span>]] ([[User talk:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:blue">contribs</span>]]) 01:23, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

{{collapse top|title=Discussion about fixing formatting with Pppery}}
:{{Ping|Pppery}} Oh! It was my edit to {{tlf|Bad}} that caused the erroneous merge template formatting! Thanks for fixing it; I'll definitely avoid making such an error in the future, now that I'm aware of it. [[User:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:red">E to the Pi times i</span>]] ([[User talk:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:blue">contribs</span>]]) 21:03, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
:: {{ec}} A large number of unrelated things went wrong there leading to the mess. 
:# Your edit to {{tl|bad}} broke the template by making it include the open table tag that it shouldn't.
:# {{tl|bad}} and {{tl|no}} don't work when used directly, but only when inside of tables (that's what produced the <code>style="background: #faa; color: black; vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; "</code> nonsense. )
:# You can't include two open curly brackets in a row in the middle of a template without escaping them (<code><nowiki>\{{2}</nowiki></code> in the regex did that). (that's what made the template not subst)
:# Your signature has a displayed vertical bar in it. As it says in the relevant section of your preferences, {{tq|Note: to use a displayed pipe ("{{!}}") character (i.e. not part of a piped link), please use &amp;#124; for the pipe character; it can otherwise cause templates to fail.}}, which only didn't cause a huge wikimarkup mess because of the previous problem.
:# Table markup can't be used inside templates without escaping it. (You didn't try to do this, I had to tackle this issue when resolving the problem) 
:  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 21:11, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
: {{ping|E to the Pi times i}}  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 21:16, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Pppery}} How do you escape curly brackets in templates? [[User:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:red">E to the Pi times i</span>]] ([[User talk:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:blue">contribs</span>]]) 21:20, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
::: {{tl|((}} or {{tag|nowiki|content={{((}}}}, although in my case it was easier to rewrite the regex to avoid the bad combination.  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 21:21, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
::::{{edit conflict}} <s>{{ping|Pppery}} I note my sig is now substed. Did you change that? Does having it substed have any benefits over transclusion? [[User:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:red">E to the Pi times i</span>]] ([[User talk:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:blue">contribs</span>]]) 21:25, 5 April 2018 (UTC)</s> Never mind, thanks for the policy link though. [[User:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:red">E to the Pi times i</span>]] ([[User talk:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:blue">contribs</span>]]) 21:29, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
::::: I changed nothing, although there is [[WP:SIG#NT|a guideline against using templates in signatures]].  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 21:27, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
: Correction: your search is specific to article space. There are three userpages using {{tl|bad}} without parameters.  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 21:32, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
:: Yeah, I was about to correct that. I was sorting out my sig business. But those can easily be changed, and the template obviously duplicates the functionality of {{tlf|no}}. [[User:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:red">E to the Pi times i</span>]] ([[User talk:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:blue">contribs</span>]]) 21:36, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|Pppery}} Okay, just wanted to give a heads-up on reviewing the problems with my previous edits. #1 and #2 were obvious, and could have been gleaned from more closely reviewing {{tlf|bad}} and {{tlf|no}} (I especially shouldn't have deleted that <code><nowiki><noinclude></nowiki></code> in {{tlf|bad}}, though its not a {{em|highly}}-transcluded template (~200 or so transclusions), so fortunately minimal harm was done. If the template more transclusions, I would have done testcases before requesting edit.) For #3, I'll be sure to keep the <code><nowiki>{{</nowiki></code> in mind when crafting future regex; I only use that scheme instead of <code>\{\{</code> because it's slightly more efficient on some regex engines. Regarding #4, I missed that in my preferences, it has since been corrected. #5 seemed weird at first but it makes sense now (obviously, it's because of the <nowiki>|</nowiki> being interpreted as pipes.) I appreciate your help greatly. In theory, I am not this scattered normally. [[User:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:red">E to the Pi times i</span>]] ([[User talk:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:blue">contribs</span>]]) 21:52, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}
* It's only fitting that I !vote after fixing and discussing this nomination. '''Merge''' as unnecessary template forks.  [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 01:26, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' Looks like duplicate functionality, per nom [[User:Galobtter|Galobtter]] ([[User talk:Galobtter|pingó mió]]) 08:05, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
*'''Question/comment'''.  No vote from me, because my red-green colorblindness makes it foolish for me to vote on color issues like this.  (1) {{tl|Available}} uses 90ff90 while {{tl|Contained}} uses 99ff99.  It seems a small enough difference that it shouldn't matter.  Do normal people see any differences between the two?  (2) What is the hex for {{tl|Yes}}?  It includes <nowiki>style="background:#9F9</nowiki>, but I don't see any standard six-digit hexes, and I checked two invoked modules ([[Module:Noinclude|Noinclude]] and [[Module:Yesno|Yesno]]) without finding any color references.  (3) {{tl|Yes}} invokes a lot of modules, but Noinclude is the only one I can find, and I don't see any template transclusions, aside from the merge.  Are all those templates and modules transcluded/invoked via the merge template, or do they come somewhere else that I'm missing?  [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 11:31, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
*9F9 = 99FF99 - see [[Web_colors#Shorthand_hexadecimal_form]]; available and contained look about the same; I think they probably are from the Tfd template mainly [[User:Galobtter|Galobtter]] ([[User talk:Galobtter|pingó mió]]) 11:43, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
:*Thank you; I didn't know they could be abbreviated like that.  I didn't ask about Bad and No, because I can see the difference between them.  And thank you for the responses on the other two.  [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 11:46, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
* '''merge''', the colours are similar enough that a merge shouldn't be a problem. [[User:Frietjes|Frietjes]] ([[User talk:Frietjes|talk]]) 22:33, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''</div>