View source for Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 November 4

<noinclude><!-- From Template:HD Archive header-->
{{#ifeq:{{PAGENAME}}|Special:Undelete| |{{#if:|<div style="display:none;">}} {{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Wikipedia|{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}|= |<div style="display:none;">}}|{{error:not substituted|Archive header}}<div style="display:none;">}}}} {{#if:|</div></div>}}{| style="width:100%;"
|-
! colspan="3" style="text-align:center;" | [[Wikipedia:Help desk|Help desk]]
|-
! style="width:20%; text-align:left;" | &lt; [[Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 November 3|{{#time: F j|4 November 2024 +-1 day}}{{#if:|, {{#switch:4 November 2024|January 1, {{{3}}}={{#expr:  - 1}}|}}}}]]
! style="width:25%; text-align:center;"|&lt;&lt; [[Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/October 2024|Oct]] | [[Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/November 2024|November]] | [[Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/December 2024|Dec]] &gt;&gt;
! style="width:20%; text-align:right;" |{{#ifexist:Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 November 5|[[Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 November 5|November 5]]|[[Wikipedia:Help desk|Current help desk]]}} &gt;
|}
{| style="width:95%; text-align:center;background: #FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #003EBA; border-spacing:0;"
|-
! style="background: #5D7CBA; text-align: center; font-family:Arial; color:#FFFFFF; padding:8px;" | Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
|-
|style="padding:8px;"| The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the [[Wikipedia:Help desk|current Help Desk]] pages.
|}


__NOEDITSECTION__ __ARCHIVEDTALK__ __TOC__ __EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__</noinclude>
= November 4 =

== Odd question. ==

Do we have to use the words used in sources to describe places and things, or do we use the most accurate words? For example, if a source calls calls a quarry a cave, despite it not being a cave, do have to abide by the words used? My specific example for this would be the previous revision of [[Ancient underground quarry, Jordan Valley|this]]. 

Thanks!

[[User:Kingsmasher678|<span style="color:green;">'''Kingsmasher678'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Kingsmasher678|talk]]) 00:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Kingsmasher678|Kingsmasher678]], this is a tough question to handle in general. We're not obligated to say things that are wrong when we know they're wrong, but we are also supposed to avoid original research. Can you find ''no'' sources that call it a quarry? -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 01:15, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::It's not about that particular case as there are some sources that do list the site as a quarry. My real question is the semantical differences between "quarry" or "tunnel", and "cave", and if it would be appropriate to change from one to the other, depending on what the site actually falls under, based on the sources description. A very common issue with cave related articles is the mistagging of [[Rock shelter|rock shelters]], [[Quarry|quarries]], and [[mines]] as caves. For example, the page for [[Mega Cavern|Mega Caverns]] used to describe the structure as a cave, though it is a mine/quarry. TLDR: Is it acceptable to use a more accurate term for a formation/location even if that term is not used in a source, as long as the source provides evidence that it falls under that term?
::[[User:Kingsmasher678|<span style="color:green;">'''Kingsmasher678'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Kingsmasher678|talk]]) 01:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::There's a pretty good user essay at [[Wikipedia:When sources are wrong]]. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 11:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks @[[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]], I was trying to find that one. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 15:13, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== AI-generated response in consensus building ==

I believe I've encountered a new account using a large-language model in a consensus building context. It's clear to me, anyway, but I don't quite know how to deal with this. Is there an equivalent to {{Personal attack removed}} I can use for LLM-generated content, as now there is non-trivial discussion underneath? [[User:Departure–|Departure–]] ([[User talk:Departure–|talk]]) 00:34, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Departure–|Departure–]], not that I'm aware of. You might want to hat the comment with [[Template:cop]] and [[Template:cob]]? I don't know that I'd do anything about it, myself, aside from perhaps making a reply asking the editor not to do that. -- [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 01:13, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:{{U|Departure–}}, we have [[Template:AI-generated inline]], which renders as: {{Template:AI-generated inline}} It is designed for articlespace, but usage in a discussion should be ok. (As with other templates in this vein, usage of the {{para|certain}} flag will remove the question mark at the end of the superscript link). The template accepts a {{para|date}} parameter as well; I'm not sure if [[User:AnomieBOT]] is scoped to add these outside mainspace if one is not included.{{pb}}We don't quite have a policy on LLM usage yet, but what we do have is at [[WP:LLM]]. Since using a chatbot in a discussion is pointless and lazy, collapsing the entire contribution as suggested just above by {{noping|asilvering}} is probably the better option. We don't have [[Wikipedia:WikiProject User warnings|user warning templates]] for AI generated text outside mainspace, but a custom message on the editor's talkpage would be appropriate if you haven't done that already. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 11:32, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== Article history... ==

Hello again!

I come back to the Help Desk regarding the article I'm working on, [[Glaiza de Castro]]. I recently checked the article history and discovered that the user who [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Glaiza_de_Castro&oldid=156424345 created] the article, [[User:Mervin 110694]], is a suspected sockpuppet.

If I will make a [[WP:GAC]] or [[WP:FAC]] nomination for the article in the future, will this fact affect the nomination process?

Looking forward to your reply. Thank you! [[User:Ramkarlo82|Ramkarlo82]] ([[User talk:Ramkarlo82|talk]]) 02:46, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:No, this I don't believe that this should have any impact on the process. Both of those areas review articles based on their own merits, not who created them.
:[[User:Kingsmasher678|<span style="color:green;">'''Kingsmasher678'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Kingsmasher678|<span style="color:black;">'''talk'''</span>]]) 02:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

==[[:Category:Caves]]==

I am trying to go through [[:Category:Caves]] and remove/move things that don't qualify. Is there a way that I could search for precedent or consensus about this category and what should be included? My general feeling is that all of the manmade caves should be moved into categories that clearly delineate them as such, leaving the natural caves as the default, as a natural void is the primary definition of the word cave. However, if there is a previous precedent I would like find it before I start a big project.

Thanks in advance,

[[User:Kingsmasher678|<span style="color:green;">'''Kingsmasher678'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Kingsmasher678|<span style="color:black;">'''talk'''</span>]]) 04:17, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{U|Kingsmasher678}}, does {{Clc|Category:Artificial caves}} work for your project? Recategorising constructed caves into this category should be non-contentious (it's already a subcat of [[:Category:Caves]], but not diffused by location).{{pb}}To answer the general case, the associated [[Category talk:Caves|{{code|Category talk:}}]] page is a good thing to check, but this namespace sees very little activity. The next step in a search for category discussion or precedent is the [[WP:CFD]] archives, like [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?sort=create_timestamp_desc&search=caves&prefix=Wikipedia%3ACategories+for+d&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns4=1 this one.] [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 11:49, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::Cool, thank you! I am going to make some subcategories for [[:Category:Artificial caves]], likely specifying which group/religion created them. Other than that, I am going to completely exclude quarries and mines from the category, only adding religious or culturally important places to that category, and since there is no precedent that I can find, the seems like a "be bold" situation.
::[[User:Kingsmasher678|<span style="color:green;">'''Kingsmasher678'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Kingsmasher678|<span style="color:black;">'''talk'''</span>]]) 14:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Being bold is often the best option ☺️ Be sure to be aware of [[WP:NARROWCAT]] in your subcategory creation. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 17:13, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== how do i change the screen back to how it was? ==

i need help [[Special:Contributions/121.98.89.82|121.98.89.82]] ([[User talk:121.98.89.82|talk]]) 08:03, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:Your question is very vague for people who are not actually looking over your shoulder, but ''perhaps'' [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo31cxOMSpg How to Zoom In and Out on a Web Page] is on point. If not, you have to be more specific. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 08:29, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:If you have a glasses icon at the top then try that. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 09:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== Autobiographies by Indian Authors ==

Hello
Good evening.
Is it possible for you to edit the page to include my book titled, " The Autobiography of a Little Known Indian 100 Countries 100 Wonders"just published by Amazon?
Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/2409:4060:395:76A6:B131:22E7:B0FF:A619|2409:4060:395:76A6:B131:22E7:B0FF:A619]] ([[User talk:2409:4060:395:76A6:B131:22E7:B0FF:A619|talk]]) 09:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:No, self published books do not merit inclusion in Wikipedia in any form, sorry.  List articles are not meant to document every possible member of the list that might exist, only those that merit Wikipedia articles, and to do that, your book would need to meet [[WP:NBOOK|the definition of a notable book]], which is unlikely for self published books(which anyone can do). [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 09:16, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::If people unconnected to you were to write books or academic journal articles about you (making you [[WP:BIO|notable]]), your book could be mentioned in a Wikipedia article about you.  If those same people wrote books or articles about your book, it could be notable too, and warrant a Wikipedia article.  Both of those situations are quite unusual, and you absolutely must not write an article about yourself or your book, nor ask your friends to write those articles.  [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 04:24, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

== Copy edit ==

Hi, I have copy edited this article and its my first copy edit specifically on an article other than what i create or edit usually. Can anyone tell whether i did it right ?

Article:- [[List of urban local bodies in Andhra Pradesh]]. [[User:Rahim231|Rahim231]] ([[User talk:Rahim231|talk]]) 13:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:Hi, thanks for copyediting the article and asking for feedback. There are a few things that I don't understand (I am unfamiliar with the topic):
:*Why capitalize ''nagar'' in ''[[nagar panchayat]]''? I think it's a foreign term but not a proper noun, so I would leave it uncapitalized but italicize it, and maybe add "(town council)" as a translation for its first use.
:*Does a source say that the Guntur district "stands out"? If not, we should just state the fact that it has two corporations while the others have one each.
:*<s>The article says that every district has a municipal corporation, with one having two corporations. With a total of 17 corporations, this would imply that there are 16 districts, but it says there are 26.</s> Moving this to the article's talk page since it's not really a problem with your copyedit.
:*What is meant by "special status"?
:[[User:Perception312|Perception312]] ([[User talk:Perception312|talk]]) 19:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::1- Actually i didn't realize that while copy editing that nagar should be written in small letter since it meaning is a town or city, edited it.
::2- I checked on the source it does not mention that so edited it as what you suggested
::3-  Removed it since the source does not mention it 
Thanks. [[User:Rahim231|Rahim231]] ([[User talk:Rahim231|talk]]) 13:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

== Married name ==

[[Helene Spilling]] and [[Martin Ødegaard]] are now married, according to VG. [https://www.vg.no/sport/i/25oGRG/folkeregisteret-oedegaard-har-giftet-seg] It shows that on the Norwegian National Register of Citizens and has been widely reported. Helene has changed her name to Helene Spilling Ødegaard, so in her Wikipedia article, would every mention of Spilling need to change into Spilling Ødegaard? I'm not familiar with these name changes. [[User:Usernameisoccupiedtoo|Usernameisoccupiedtoo]] ([[User talk:Usernameisoccupiedtoo|talk]]) 14:16, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Usernameisoccupiedtoo|Usernameisoccupiedtoo]] Given that the marriage was very recent, almost all of the sources for the article will use her maiden name and per [[WP:COMMONNAME]] that will still be the article title. [[MOS:NEE]] says that the married name should be in the lead of the article (as it now is) but I don't see any need to repeat that surname everywhere. [[User:Michael D. Turnbull|Mike Turnbull]] ([[User talk:Michael D. Turnbull|talk]]) 15:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== Logging in ==

I have tried every username and email address to try to reset but i am not getting any email reset stuff... I have donated every year so maybe I dont have an account but it makes me think I do. [[Special:Contributions/173.68.158.26|173.68.158.26]] ([[User talk:173.68.158.26|talk]]) 14:25, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:Donations have nothing to do with accounts. They are not linked. If you know you edited a particular article you can examine its edit history to make sure you get your username right. If you do have an account and the password reset does not work, you will need to create a new account. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 14:33, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== Url =value  ==

What does this mean and should i apply it to edit Wikipedia  [[User:AlekuDrake|AlekuDrake]] ([[User talk:AlekuDrake|talk]]) 14:34, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|AlekuDrake}} I guess you refer to "Check |url= value ([[Help:CS1 errors#bad url|help]])" in [[Draft:Kosea Wambaka]]. "[[Help:CS1 errors#bad url|help]]" is blue so it's a link. The url value must include the protocol, usually <code><nowiki>https://</nowiki></code> (preferred when it works) or <code><nowiki>http://</nowiki></code>. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 15:05, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks [[User:AlekuDrake|AlekuDrake]] ([[User talk:AlekuDrake|talk]]) 20:00, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== Adding drafts to main space categories ==

[[Special:Contributions/84.70.193.233|This IP]] has been creating drafts regarding children's media, and insisting on adding them to related categories before they've been moved to mainspace. I've added [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Lu_%26_The_Bally_Bunch&diff=prev&oldid=1255437314 draft category templates], which are then removed by the IP(hope I havent been violating 3RR there) with no communication following the message left on [[User_talk:84.70.193.233|their talk page]]. I'm puzzled as to where I should go to report this, [[WP:AIV]] seems inappropriate and [[WP:ANI]] seems too extreme. This issue might get handled thanks to me posting this, but where should I generally go for instances of editors misusing draft articles? [[User:LaffyTaffer|LaffyTaffer]] ([[User talk:LaffyTaffer|talk]]) 23:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:Hello, @[[User:LaffyTaffer|LaffyTaffer]]. If an editor is doing something against Wikipedia policies, and not acknowledging any attempt to commujnicate with them, then [[WP:ANI]] is the place to take it. Please read the material at the top of that page carefully before posting. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 10:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)