View source for Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 February 8

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=== February 8 ===
==== Category:PKP people ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:PKP people]] to [[:Category:Polskie Koleje Państwowe people]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. Expansion of potentially ambiguous abbreviation.  Parent cat is already expanded as {{cl|Polskie Koleje Państwowe}}. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 22:08, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 23:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. Abbreviation unnecessary. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 04:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nomination. No reason for abbreviation. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] ([[User talk:Doczilla|talk]]) 07:07, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom to expand relatively uncommon abbreviation. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 20:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per all above. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 20:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:PKP chairmen ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''combine'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Suggest merging''' [[:Category:PKP chairmen]] to [[:Category:Polskie Koleje Państwowe people]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Merge''', At minimum it needs a rename as per the above nomination for {{cl|PKP people}}, but with only one member I can't see the justification for being so hyper specific just yet. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 22:08, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' per nom. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 23:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
:Comment - shouldn't this be a rename? [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 04:27, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
::Reply - If it weren't for the rename of ''PKP people'' above, I'd have brought this here to merge into that.  A simple rename of this would be a rename to [[:Category:Polskie Koleje Państwowe chairman]]. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 04:41, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Well I was a little confused because you're wanting to merge an existing cat into one that doesn't exist. A rename should fix it. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 04:50, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Polskie Koleje Państwowe people]]. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 04:50, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename–"Merge"''' per nom. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 20:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' to [[:Category:Polskie Koleje Państwowe people]], assuming it gets created. Otherwise merge to [[:Category:PKP people]].--[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 20:45, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:British football broadcasters ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:British football broadcasters]] to [[:Category:British association football commentators]]
:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Scottish football broadcasters]] to [[:Category:Scottish association football commentators]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. For consistency with the proposed rename of [[:Category:Football (soccer) announcers]]; using [[association football]] per the name of the article, and using "commentators", rather than "broadcasters", which could mean the tv & radio stations rather than the people. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 23:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 04:29, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' for consistency. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] ([[User talk:Doczilla|talk]]) 07:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 20:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to "...football (soccer) commentators" to make the nature of the sport clear to all audiences. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 17:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - This category is for pundits as well as commentators, hence why Richard Keys, Gabby Logan and Gary Lineker are included, and not one of them has ever been a commentator. – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 11:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Football (soccer) announcers ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Football (soccer) announcers]] to [[:Category:Association football commentators]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. As the category itself states, the term "announcer" is very much a North American term. The term "commentator" is much more common, not just in Britain, but all over the English-speaking world. – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 13:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*<small>This discussion has been included in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Football|WikiProject Football]]'s list of football (soccer) related page moves. – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 14:00, 8 February 2008 (UTC)</small>
*Should be [[:Category:Association football commentators]] per the [[association football|main article]] on the subject. [[User:Number 57|<span style="color:orange;">пﮟოьεԻ</span>]] [[User talk:Number 57|<span style="color:green;">5</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Number 57|<span style="color:blue;">7</span>]] 14:02, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' I thought that discussion determined that categories and things like that should carry on using "football (soccer)". – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 14:04, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
***Only one person actually said that, and it seems a bit silly to me; Football (soccer) is quite an ugly bastardisation. [[User:Number 57|<span style="color:orange;">пﮟოьεԻ</span>]] [[User talk:Number 57|<span style="color:green;">5</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Number 57|<span style="color:blue;">7</span>]] 14:15, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
****Okie dokie. I've changed the nomination. – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 14:42, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to match the page. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:01, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per (changed) nom. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 05:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per (both) nom. [[User:Sebisthlm|Sebisthlm]] ([[User talk:Sebisthlm|talk]]) 17:26, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to the article name. [[User:Jrphayes|John Hayes]]<sup>[[User_talk:Jrphayes|talk]]</sup> 17:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' for consistency with main article. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 21:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to "...football (soccer) commentators" to make the nature of the sport clear to all audiences. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 17:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
**'''Reply''' - "Association football" isn't clear enough for you?! – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 18:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
***Nor to the majority of readers in the [[United States]]. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 19:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
****What's so special about the United States? – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 11:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
*****Nothing... I don't know about you, though, but I don't see people walking around talking about "association football" (while you regularly see people talk about "American football" or "Australian football" or "Gaelic football") - the most common name throughout the world is "football", then "soccer". Since we obviously need some way to disambiguate "football", why not use a name that is actually commonly used throughout the world? Should we rename articles like "John Smith (footballer)" to "John Smith (association football player)"? [[User:Ugen64|ugen64]] ([[User talk:Ugen64|talk]]) 17:48, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Jimmy Buffett ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''delete'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:{{Lc|Jimmy Buffett}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Eponymous category for a rather famous singer; not allowed per [[WP:OCAT]]. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten&nbsp;Pound&nbsp;Hammer</span>]] <small>and his otters</small> • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken clamshells]]•[[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter chirps]])</sup> 20:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom & ample precedent. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 21:55, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*<s>'''Keep''' Seems to have plenty of valid sub-cats and articles; enough to justify this.</s>Changed to '''Delete''' - neither above mentioned the screenfull of Jimmy Buffet template, which '''does''' give a reason to delete, unlike the nom (or ample precedent). This provides perfectly well for navigation. Sorry Johntex! - he refers to my first comments of course. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 23:50, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' <s>per Johnbod.</s>  The nominator points to [[WP:OCAT]], which is a ''guideline'' (not policy) to avoid over-categorization.  However, I <s>agree with Johnbod</s> think that the large number of pages grouped into this category is a valid argument that this category is needed and that it is not an example of over-categorization. [[User:Johntex|'''Johntex''']]\<sup>[[User_talk:Johntex|talk]]</sup> 03:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
::I see Johnbod changed his mind.  It is an interesting idea that the navigation template could take the place of the category.  However, I am going to stay with my "Keep" recommendation for now.  For one thing, the template wouldn't naturally reside in parent categories like the Jimmy Buffet category can. [[User:Johntex|'''Johntex''']]\<sup>[[User_talk:Johntex|talk]]</sup> 06:15, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per Johnbod (second version). [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 04:38, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' eponymous category. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] ([[User talk:Doczilla|talk]]) 07:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - eponymous overcategorization, which although it is a guideline rather than a policy still applies. Everything here is extensively interlinked through the gi-normous template and through text links. [[User:Otto4711|Otto4711]] ([[User talk:Otto4711|talk]]) 15:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as overcategorisation. Although there are many articles in the category, which may have swayed me, the template really renders it unnecessary. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 20:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per Johntex. This is an atypical "musician category" in that it contains considerably more than a main article and subcats for albums and songs. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 17:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Kalamazoo Wings players ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''merge and redirect'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 15:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Suggest merging''' [[:Category:Kalamazoo Wings (1974-1995) players]] to [[:Category:Kalamazoo Wings (1974-2000) players]]
:'''Suggest merging''' [[:Category:Michigan K-Wings players]] to [[:Category:Kalamazoo Wings (1974-2000) players]]
::'''Rationale''':Both categories are redundant with the (1974-2000) category.  It was the same franchise the entire time, it just shifted names for a while.  Note that {{Cat|Kalamazoo Wings (2000-) players}} represents a unique and separate franchise, so should remain separate. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 18:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I do agree that atleast one needs to be merged. But I feel the it should be [[:Category:Kalamazoo Wings (1974-2000) players]] to [[:Category:Kalamazoo Wings (1974-1995) players]] and leave the [[:Category:Michigan K-Wings players]] alone. When franchises change names we usually create a new category for it. See [[:Category:Anaheim Ducks players]] and [[:Category:Mighty Ducks of Anaheim players]] for examples. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 18:45, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
**I can't say I agree with that though.  I don't think that a simple name change should warrant a new category.  This may merit some greater discussion at [[WT:HOCKEY]]. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 18:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
***But you have to think someone who is looking for a player who only played for the team when they were called the [[Michigan K-Wings]] would not think to look in a category named for the [[Kalamazoo Wings]]. I could see the point with the Anaheim Ducks perhaps as thats an obvious derivative, but I don't know that in this case its so obvious. Other examples of course are [[:Category:Detroit Red Wings players]], [[:Category:Detroit Falcons players]] and [[:Category:Detroit Cougars players]] -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 19:01, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
****Fair enough, though that could be handled via redirects. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 19:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*****I have no problem with redirects. I would be ok with that just always forget you can redirect cats. '''Merge and Redirect old cats to new one'''. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 19:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
******Considering the categories can be redirected (I actually had no idea that was possible), I agree with the '''Merge and Redirect''' solution. [[User:Skudrafan1|Skudrafan1]] ([[User talk:Skudrafan1|talk]]) 05:57, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*******It is possible in the way articles are redirected, but can be problematic.  I'd be slapping a {{tn|Category redirect}} template on the redirected categories.  Its basically a soft redirect that will point users to the right cat. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 06:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Merge & redirect Michigan K-Wings cat''' since they are the same franchise in the same city.  I believe that this should happen for the Ducks & Red Wings examples given for the same reason.  -- [[User:JamesTeterenko|JamesTeterenko]] ([[User talk:JamesTeterenko|talk]]) 21:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Do not merge at least K-Wings category.''' If the team name actually changed, we shouldn't categorize a player under a team they didn't play for.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] ([[User talk:Mike Selinker|talk]]) 16:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
**Except that they did.  It was the same team. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 22:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Hockey in Calgary ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Hockey in Calgary]] to [[:Category:Ice hockey in Calgary]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. Disambiguate Ice hockey, consistency in naming with parent categories. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 17:29, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per Resolute for consistancy. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 17:42, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 21:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. more descriptive. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 04:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom for consistency/clarity. [[User:Zoporific|Zoporific]] 04:48, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 20:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' for disambiguation. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 20:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom and [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 February 7#United States ice hockey teams|previous precedent]]. --[[User:JD554|JD554]] ([[User talk:JD554|talk]]) 08:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Ice hockey teams by nation ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename all'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:British ice hockey teams]] to <s>[[:Category:Ice hockey teams in Great Britain]]</s> {{cat|Ice hockey teams in the United Kingdom}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. A continuation of [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_February_7#United_States_ice_hockey_teams|a nomination from yesterday]]. Consistency in naming per [[WP:NCCAT]], as well as the parent categories {{cat|Ice hockey in the United States}} and {{cat|Ice hockey teams by country}}.  Also nominating the following:
::{{cat|English ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in England}}
::{{cat|Scottish ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in Scotland}}
::{{cat|Czech ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in the Czech Republic}}
::{{cat|Danish ice hockey teams}} to {{Cat|Ice hockey teams in Denmark}}
::{{cat|Finnish ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in Finland}}
::{{cat|French ice hockey teams}} to {{Cat|Ice hockey teams in France}}
::{{cat|German ice hockey teams}} to {{Cat|Ice hockey teams in Germany}}
::{{cat|Italian ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in Italy}}
::{{Cat|Japanese ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in Japan}}
::{{cat|Latvian ice hockey teams}} to {{Cat|Ice hockey teams in Latvia}}
::{{cat|Lithuanian ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in Lithuania}}
::{{cat|Norwegian ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in Norway}}
::{{cat|Polish ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in Poland}}
::{{Cat|Russian ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in Russia}}
::{{cat|Slovak ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in Slovakia}}
::{{cat|Swedish ice hockey teams}} to {{cat|Ice hockey teams in Sweden}}
::{{cat|Swiss ice hockey teams}} to {{Cat|Ice hockey teams in Switzerland}}
[[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 16:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' per Resolute. Just plain makes sense. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 17:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*Should be United Kingdom rather than Great Britain as it contains [[Belfast Giants]]. [[User:Tim!|Tim!]] ([[User talk:Tim!|talk]]) 18:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
**Excellent point.  Changed to reflect this. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 19:07, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 21:57, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom for consistency. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 04:53, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' for consistency. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] ([[User talk:Doczilla|talk]]) 07:07, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per [[WP:NCCAT]] and clarity/consistency. [[User:Neier|Neier]] ([[User talk:Neier|talk]]) 12:22, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' for consistency. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 20:54, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom and previous precedent cited. --[[User:JD554|JD554]] ([[User talk:JD554|talk]]) 08:30, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Tribal societies that have practiced headhunting ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''delete per rough consensus and reliable sourcing concerns'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 15:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Tribal societies that have practiced headhunting]] to [[:Category:Societies that have practiced headhunting]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' "Tribe" has specific connotations and a particular meaning within anthropology. Not all of the societies included in this category can or should be described as "tribal". [[User:Robotforaday|Robotforaday]] ([[User talk:Robotforaday|talk]]) 16:36, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::*'''Rename'''. I agree 100%.--[[User:Woland37|Woland]] ([[User talk:Woland37|talk]]) 17:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to something. As I said [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_19#Category:Headhunting_among_tribal_societies|last time]] "Former headhunting societies" is shorter. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 22:31, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. [[:Category:Historic headhunting societies]]? [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 01:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
:::What would Dr S say? [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 03:18, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
:::We should not necessarily make the assumption that headhunting is a phenomenon restricted to the past. [[User:Robotforaday|Robotforaday]] ([[User talk:Robotforaday|talk]]) 13:38, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Certainly Rename''', though perhaps [[Peoples' with Headhunting Traditions]] or more simple [[Headhunting Traditions]] might better suit - given the uncertain and variable scale of the named groups of people listed??  [[User:Bruceanthro|Bruceanthro]] ([[User talk:Bruceanthro|talk]]) 13:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Comment''' .. having randomly sampled a few of the named groups listed, and knowing the often contested, unreliable nature of 'headhunting' and 'cannibal' type reputations and claims about others .. it is of some concern that some of these groups should be so readily identified/described/and listed on Wikipedia as headhunters, most often without citations or relevant Wikipedia standard verification!!  Perhaps, in addition to renaming the category and associated list, it should be tagged as unverfied and in need of verfication?  [[User:Bruceanthro|Bruceanthro]] ([[User talk:Bruceanthro|talk]]) 13:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - I do not see how headhunting is a defining aspect of a society, and if it is, let's also include "societies that have practiced bayoneting of infants", "societies that blow their enemies up with bombs", and "societies that send agents to assassinate or kidnap foreign leaders". Moreover, since the practice varies, it seems much more appropriate to simply discuss peoples that practice headhunting, as appropriate and as sourced, in the headhunting article(s). --[[User:Lquilter|Lquilter]] ([[User talk:Lquilter|talk]]) 17:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' not defining for the society - many peoples do things that others think odd or distinctive but these are so numerous to make nearly every cultural aspect a category and hence not defining: think of cannibalism, slavery, nudity, intolerance of nudity, polygymy, shunning, taboo, adoption, eating meat, not eating meat, pedophilia, incest, animal sacrifice, human sacrifice, celibacy, circumcision, scarification, foot binding, head flattening, neck elongation, and thousands of others... [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 02:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
<hr style="width:50%;"/>
:<span style="color:Chocolate;">'''Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.'''</span><br/><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:14, 8 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist -->
*'''Delete''' per above.  Non-defining characteristic. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 19:09, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per above. not defining for the society. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 04:56, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' - headhunting has resulted in several invasions over history - e.g. 1880s punitive expeditions in the Chin-Lushai Hills, very defining events for those people. [[User:Ephebi|Ephebi]] ([[User talk:Ephebi|talk]]) 15:24, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Speedy Keep/rename''' Though this article should be renamed, headhunting is a relatively significant and unique attribute of a society and is certainly notable enough to have this article.--[[User:Woland37|Woland]] ([[User talk:Woland37|talk]]) 16:31, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
:*This is a category, not an article. The practice of headhunting is certainly notable and worthy of an article (which it [[Headhunting|has]]) but notability for an article doesn't translate automatically into categorizable. '''Delete''' because allegations that a society engaged in headhunting require [[WP:RS|reliable sourcing]] which a category can't provide. [[User:Otto4711|Otto4711]] ([[User talk:Otto4711|talk]]) 18:53, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Whoa, hang on! We have many categories classifying things that need reliable sourcing (what doesn't that is not provided by the category itself, but in the individual articles. See [[:Category:Murderers]] etc. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 19:50, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Surely reliable sourcing is (or should be) provided within a given article, and then based on the reliably sourced material in the article, it can be placed in particular categories? To be honest, everything on wikipedia ought to be reliably sourced... Hence your objection ought to apply equally to ''all'' categories. [[User:Robotforaday|Robotforaday]] ([[User talk:Robotforaday|talk]]) 21:02, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per Lquilter. Not defining for a society, but the article on the subject is entirely appropriate. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 21:09, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as non-defining per [[User:Lquilter|Lquilter]]. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 20:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:American Jews ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''no consensus'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 15:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:American Jews]] to [[:Category:Jewish Americans]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. Should be consistent with the vast majority of other [[:Category:American people by ethnic or national origin|American people by ethnic or national origin]]. [[User:Maher-shalal-hashbaz|Maher-shalal-hashbaz]] ([[User talk:Maher-shalal-hashbaz|talk]]) 13:45, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''rename''' per nom to match other similar cats. [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] ([[User talk:Hmains|talk]]) 17:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
**Hi Hmains: But this categ is also part of the big [[:Category:Jews by country]]. Have you checked that out? [[User:IZAK|IZAK]] ([[User talk:IZAK|talk]]) 10:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per the White House's ''[http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070430-7.html Jewish American Heritage Month]''. [[User:All Hallow&#39;s Wraith|All Hallow&#39;s Wraith]] ([[User talk:All Hallow&#39;s Wraith|talk]]) 21:08, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' unnecessary racial/ethnic/religion category. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 21:58, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
**If so, delete all ethnic categories. See [[:Category:Jews by country]]. [[User:IZAK|IZAK]] ([[User talk:IZAK|talk]]) 10:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per Carlossuarez46. unnecessary. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 04:59, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per Carlos and [[WP:OC]]. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] ([[User talk:Doczilla|talk]]) 07:05, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''as it follows convention (in regards to deletion: Jewish Americans have a significant difference in culture and history to warrant their own article).--[[User:Woland37|Woland]] ([[User talk:Woland37|talk]]) 16:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
:*'''comment''' and by 'article I mean category of course.--[[User:Woland37|Woland]] ([[User talk:Woland37|talk]]) 16:43, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Question/comment''' Religion categories use "American Foo", where Foo is the religion. Has there been some sort of consensus decision to recast this and other "Jews" category as an ethnic category as opposed to a religious one? Far from all American Jews are of a "Jewish" ethnicity. I'm always a bit nervous in recasting Jewishness as an ethnicity rather than a religion, b/c of the whole Nazi strategy of doing the same, etc.  [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 21:13, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
**Hi Snocrates: Being Jewish means being part of ''both'' a religion and an ethinicity, something that no other group has. See the [[Jew]] and [[Judaism]] articles to explain this. [[User:IZAK|IZAK]] ([[User talk:IZAK|talk]]) 10:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''rename''' per nom. Our article on [[Jew]]s as both an ethnicity and a religion. The rules per ethnicity apply. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 21:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' rename.  Current name is consistent with [[:Category:Jews by country]] and main article [[American Jews]].  We've been through this before, but I can't find the link right now. [[User:Lesnail|LeSnail]] ([[User talk:Lesnail|talk]]) 22:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Strongly opposed to renaming''' -- glad I noticed this before discussion was closed (I've been away from Wikipedia for a while). This category's name should remain as is. As Lesnail has correctly pointed out, [[:Category:Jews by country]] uses the "Category:[Foo] Jews," and changing this category's name would throw that category in to disarray as others would probably soon follow. The last renaming discussion is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_May_16#Category:Jewish_Americans here], from May 2007. Additionally, some discussion on this renaming issue has already occurred [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:American_Jews#Change_The_Article.27s_Title_Per_Wikipedia_Norms_--_A_Simple_Redirect here]. I used to be of the opinion that the main article ([[American Jews]], along with the category and lists) should be changed back to "Jewish Americans" (mostly because of all related lists such as [[List of Jewish American poets]], [[List of Jewish American athletes]], [[List of Jewish American economists]], etc), but I've since changed my mind (mostly owing to the naming standardization found in [[:Category:Jews by country]]). As the nominator points out, [[:Category:American people by ethnic or national origin]] uses the "Category:[Foo] Americans" scheme most of time, but it is not universal there and varies quite a bit. So, please let us not be Americentric and mess up the workable category scheme found in [[:Category:Jews by country]]. Also, please '''ignore''' the ridiculous POV opinions of the rabidly irrational deletionists above, since this category was nominated for renaming and not deletion. Finally, in an effort to prevent data loss should this category be renamed and the recat bot 'mysteriously' screw up halfway through recategoriztion, ''[[:Category:American Jews]] currently contains about 2,200 names'', NOT including all of the names in its subcategories -- just stating this fact to get it on the record since there is still a movement underfoot here on Wikipedia to delete nearly all categories or lists dealing with Jews. --[[User:Wassermann|Wassermann]] ([[User talk:Wassermann|talk]]) 03:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per LeSnail. I still don't understand the rationale behind why the conventions of ethnicity categories should trump the conventions of [[:Category:American people by religion]] and [[:Category:Jews by country]]. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 03:48, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per User:Wasserman. This debate goes on and on over the years on Wikipedia. Please note User:Wasserman's observations. In the past I have also stated: MEDIATE because this is a subcategory of BOTH [[:Category:Jews by country]] AND [[:Category:American people by ethnic or national origin]] which uses the present naming convention. But I think that [[:Category:Jews by country]] should be the "parent category" in this case. [[User:IZAK|IZAK]] ([[User talk:IZAK|talk]]) 10:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
*<small>'''Note''':  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism|list of Judaism-related deletion discussions]].  </small><small>[[User:IZAK|IZAK]] ([[User talk:IZAK|talk]]) 10:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)</small>
*'''Support renaming''' - I've always felt this should be [[:Category:Jewish Americans]], which strikes me as a ''broader and more inclusive'' term that better encompasses both religious and non-religious individuals, as well as reflecting the ethnic component of the term. Consistency is important, but sometimes other considerations are ''more'' important. [[User:Cgingold|Cgingold]] ([[User talk:Cgingold|talk]]) 12:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:32, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus]] to [[:Category:Northern Cyprus]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. Main article is at [[Northern Cyprus]]. We generally use the common name for states and pseudo-states. We have [[:Category:East Germany]], not [[:Category:German Democratic Republic]]; [[:Category:South Vietnam]], not [[:Category:Republic of Vietnam]]; [[:Category:Libya]], not [[:Category:Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya]]; etc. The common name for this largely unrecognized state is [[Northern Cyprus]]. (There are also some subcategories which use the full name; if this rename is successful I will also nominate them. I think it may be better and simpler to do them separately when this one concludes as there are some other problems with the subcategories that will need to be discussed that are distinct from this naming issue.) [[User:Zoporific|Zoporific]] 11:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:10, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
:*Comment - this is not a recognized state? At least not by the United Nations. The U.N. recognizes only Cyprus. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 05:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
:**Yes, only Turkey recognizes the "state". The UN and many other countries regard Turkey's occupation there as a violation of intl law. [[User:Zoporific|Zoporific]] 05:22, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
:**And why does that have a bearing on what our category is called? We have categories on lots of places not recognized as a state by the UN - [[:Category:Roman Empire]], [[:Category:Gaza Strip]], [[:Category:Hong Kong]], [[:Category:Taiwan]], [[:Category:Puerto Rico]], [[:Category:Kurdistan]], so your point is? [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 23:38, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
:***Were you talking to Sting or to me? I don't think it really plays any role at all in what name is chosen. [[User:Zoporific|Zoporific]] 08:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
:****I think he was talking to me. Just pointing out that it was not recognized? I guess I thought that might have had some bearing on the eventual name of the category. The defacto government calls it TRNC and Northern Cyprus is stated on the article page as the "common" name. I would have thought we would be sticking to official names here? But whatever floats your boat. I've lost interest in it now. I'm still trying to get my head around Roman Empire, Hong Kong etc. If you want to drop me a line on my talk page about it then go for it. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 12:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to match article (which does not use the name I would have chosen, but there we go). [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 14:17, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''; use of common names is best per nom. Plenty of subcategories there that should also be renamed per nom. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 21:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' Rename to match the article title. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 21:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' for consistency with main article. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 21:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Bosnia and Herzegovina ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename all'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Society of Bosnia and Herzegovina]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina society]]
:[[:Category:Culture of Bosnia and Herzegovina]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina culture]]
:[[:Category:Law of Bosnia and Herzegovina]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina law]]
:[[:Category:Media of Bosnia and Herzegovina]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina media]]
:[[:Category:Music of Bosnia and Herzegovina]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina music]]
:[[:Category:Musical groups from Bosnia and Herzegovina]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina musical groups]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian architecture]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina architecture]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian films]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina films]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian cuisine]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina cuisine]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian cheeses]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina cheeses]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian orchestras]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina orchestras]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian mobsters]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina mobsters]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian classical guitarists]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina classical guitarists]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian university teachers]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina university teachers]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian pianists]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina pianists]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian classical pianists]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina classical pianists]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian classical musicians]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina classical musicians]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian classical musicians by instrument]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina classical musicians by instrument]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian extrajudicial prisoners of the United States]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina extrajudicial prisoners of the United States]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian people by occupation]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina people by occupation]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian and Herzegovinian artists]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina artists]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian and Herzegovinan hip hop]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina hip hop]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian and Herzegovinan hip hop musicians]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina hip hop musicians]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian and Herzegovinian film directors]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina film directors]]
:[[:Category:Bosnian and Herzegovinan rappers]] to [[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina rappers]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. Many of the Bosnia and Herzegovina people categories were [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_December_31#Bosnian_and_Herzegovinian_people|recently]] renamed to the standard "Fooian Foo" format, using "Fooian=Bosnia and Herzegovina". These other categories which are phrased using nationality should also be renamed for consistency. There are also a few people categories that were not nominated last time. Currently, the category consistency is a bit of a mess, and the ones for nationality use any of "Bosnia and Herzegovina Foo", "Foo of Bosnia and Herzegovina", "Bosnian Foo" "Bosnian and Herzegovin'''ian''' Foo" and "Bosnia and Herzegovin'''an''' Foo". "Bosnian" should not be used when it is meant to apply to the people of the entire country, which it does, more often than not. "Bosnian and Herzegovinian" is not commonly used. "Bosnian and Herzegovinan" is just plain wrong. This proposal, if accepted, will bring all the Bosnia and Herzegovina nationality categories in line with each other and the overall by nationality category schemes. [[User:Zoporific|Zoporific]] 08:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename to [[:Category:Bosnian and Herzegovinian foo]]'''.  Why is this "just plain wrong?" when the [[Bosnia and Herzegovina|main article]] states this demonym? [[User:Lugnuts|Lugnuts]] ([[User talk:Lugnuts|talk]]) 12:15, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
**I said "Bosnia and Herzegovin'''an'''" is wrong. Check the spelling. I said "Bosnian and Herzegovinian" is not commonly used, and right now there are only 2 of the above categories that use it. The main article does not give "Bosnian and Herzegovinian" as the demonym: it gives "Bosnian" and "Herzegovinian" separately. This is because "Bosnian" is common; "Herzegovinian" is semi-common; but "Bosnian and Herzegovinian" is almost never used. [[User:Zoporific|Zoporific]] 12:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename to [[:Category:Bosno-Herzegovinan foo]]'''. The correct demonym for someone from Herzegovina is "Herzegovinan". – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 14:07, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
**"Bosno-Herzegovinan" — sounds like a neologism to me. Perhaps I did get that backwards in my above comments, though — "Herzegovinan" is correct; "Herzegovinian" is just wrong. In any case, I don't support either, so what I think about them doesn't much matter. ... [[User:Zoporific|Zoporific]] 00:32, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom to avoid the difficulties exhibited above in finding an adjective. [[User:Roundhouse0|-- roundhouse0]] ([[User talk:Roundhouse0|talk]]) 17:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom & per Roundhouse. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom and Roundhouse. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 05:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nomination and for adjective problems. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] ([[User talk:Doczilla|talk]]) 07:08, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nominator to '''"Bosnia and Herzegovina Foo"'''. I think "Herzegonvinian" ''or'' "Herzegovinan" are both technically acceptable, but nom is right that this word is not typically used in combination with "Bosnian" to describe a person from the country. "Bosnian" and "Herzegovin(i)an" are used almost exclusively as ethnic group identifiers. For this reason, simply using "Bosnia and Herzegovina" seems the simplest solution that is least likely to be misunderstood. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 21:04, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename per nom''' and per precedent of [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_December_31#Bosnian and Herzegovinian people|Bosnia discussion of Dec 31]]. ([[:Category:Bosnian university teachers]] should be [[:Category:Faculty by university or college in Bosnia and Herzegovina]], though.)--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] ([[User talk:Mike Selinker|talk]]) 16:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom and precedent. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 21:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Democratic Republic of the Congo ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename all'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:34, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Culture of the Democratic Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo culture]]
:[[:Category:Society of the Democratic Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo society]]
:[[:Category:Films of the Democratic Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo films]]
:[[:Category:Music of the Democratic Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo music]]
:[[:Category:Law of the Democratic Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo law]]
:[[:Category:Media of the Democratic Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo media]]
:[[:Category:Cuisine of the Democratic Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo cuisine]]
:[[:Category:Musical groups of the Democratic Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo musical groups]]
:[[:Category:Congolese hip hop]] to [[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo hip hop]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. The Democratic Republic of the Congo people categories were [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_January_22#Category:People_from_the_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo|recently]] renamed to the standard "Fooian Foo" format, using "Fooian=Democratic Republic of the Congo". These other categories which are phrased using nationality should also be renamed for consistency. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] commented with the previous nomination that he would do these, but since he's gone, I thought I would do them. This will bring all the Democratic Republic of the Congo nationality categories in line with each other and the overall by nationality category schemes. The last category, [[:Category:Congolese hip hop]], only has one article in it, and it is about a hip hop group from DRC, not the Republic of the Congo. [[User:Zoporific|Zoporific]] 08:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]])
*'''Rename''' per nom. makes sense to me. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 05:19, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. Ah, thank you, Zoporific. These were on my to-do list when I found out I could get an Internet connection. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 21:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename per nom''' and per precedent of [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_December_31#Bosnian and Herzegovinian people|Bosnia discussion of Dec 31]].--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] ([[User talk:Mike Selinker|talk]]) 16:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 21:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Republic of the Congo ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename all'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Culture of the Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Republic of the Congo culture]]
:[[:Category:Films of the Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Republic of the Congo films]]
:[[:Category:Music of the Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Republic of the Congo music]]
:[[:Category:Law of the Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Republic of the Congo law]]
:[[:Category:Society of the Republic of the Congo]] to [[:Category:Republic of the Congo society]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. The Republic of the Congo people categories were [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_January_28#Category:People_of_the_Republic_of_the_Congo|recently]] renamed to the standard "Fooian Foo" format, using "Fooian=Republic of the Congo". These other categories which are phrased using nationality should also be renamed for consistency. This will bring all the Republic of the Congo nationality categories in line with each other and the overall by nationality category schemes. (The first and last target categories are currently redirects.) [[User:Zoporific|Zoporific]] 07:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:13, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 05:23, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom for consistency with rename of people categories. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 21:06, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename per nom''' and per precedent of [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_December_31#Bosnian and Herzegovinian people|Bosnia discussion of Dec 31]].--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] ([[User talk:Mike Selinker|talk]]) 16:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 21:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Solomon Islander people ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename all'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Solomon Islander people]] to [[:Category:Solomon Islands people]]
:[[:Category:Solomon Islander people by occupation]] to [[:Category:Solomon Islands people by occupation]]
:[[:Category:Solomon Islander criminals]] to [[:Category:Solomon Islands criminals]]
:[[:Category:Solomon Islander murderers]] to [[:Category:Solomon Islands murderers]]
:[[:Category:Solomon Islander politicians]] to [[:Category:Solomon Islands politicians]]
:[[:Category:Solomon Islander sportspeople]] to [[:Category:Solomon Islands sportspeople]]
:[[:Category:Solomon Islander athletes]] to [[:Category:Solomon Islands athletes]]
:[[:Category:Solomon Islander culture]] to [[:Category:Solomon Islands culture]]
:[[:Category:Solomon Islander music]] to [[:Category:Solomon Islands music]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. "Solomon Islander" is properly used only as a noun, not as an adjective. This is similar to the ''New Zealand – New Zealander'' issue, where categories named "Fooian Foo" use "New Zealand Foo", not "New Zealander Foo". Some of the categories by nationality are already properly named, e.g., [[:Category:Solomon Islands media]]. [[User:Zoporific|Zoporific]] 03:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:13, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom for consistency. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 05:24, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' for consistency. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] ([[User talk:Doczilla|talk]]) 07:09, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. Like "New Zealander", "Solomon Islander" sounds awkward as an adjective. [[User:Snocrates|Snocrates]] 21:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
**More to the point, like "New Zealander", "Solomon Islander" ''isn't'' an adjective - it's a noun-form demonym for individual people. '''Rename per nom'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''[[User_talk:Grutness|<small style="color:#008822;">wha?</small>]]'' 23:47, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename per nom''' and per precedent of [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_December_31#Bosnian and Herzegovinian people|Bosnia discussion of Dec 31]]. (We might also want to look at [[:Category:United States Virgin Islander people by occupation]].)--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] ([[User talk:Mike Selinker|talk]]) 16:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 21:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Gangs in Massachusetts ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the discussion was  '''keep'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 21:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Suggest merging''' [[:Category:Gangs in Massachusetts]] to [[:Category:Irish mob]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Merge''', Once again, I see no rationale for a sub-cat for Irish gangs specifically in Massachusetts.  All of the gangs listed are also listed either at the Irish gangs or Irish mob categories, or both.  Do we require these "Gangs in ___" categories, even when said categories contain only one or two gangs?-<span style="font-family:Celtic;">[[User:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#009900">RepublicanJacobite</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#006600">The'FortyFive'</span>]]''</sub></span> 03:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''keep''' as is.  [[:Category:Gangs in Massachusetts]] is one of a series of by-state articles for gangs in various states of the US.  The suggested merge category does not do this.  In any case, it is presumptuous to think all gangs in Massachusetts are, or every will be, the Irish mob. [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] ([[User talk:Hmains|talk]]) 17:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per Hmains, and because what's there now doesn't mean that's all there are or ever will be. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:14, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per Hmains and Carlossuarez46. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 05:26, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per gang category norms. Even if underpopulated, it fits into the naming system. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] ([[User talk:Doczilla|talk]]) 07:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' to fit a consistant naming system. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 21:18, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for consistency. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 21:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Winter Hill Gang ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the discussion was  '''keep'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 21:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Suggest merging''' [[:Category:Winter Hill Gang]] to [[:Category:Irish mob]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Merge''', I suggest that this sub-cat (really a sub-cat of the Irish gangs sub-cat) be merged into its parent cat.  I can see no rationale for a sub-cat for ''one particular gang'', especially considering that all of the individuals listed are in the much larger Irish-American mobsters sub-cat.-<span style="font-family:Celtic;">[[User:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#009900">RepublicanJacobite</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#006600">The'FortyFive'</span>]]''</sub></span> 03:20, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''keep''' as is.  There is no reason whatsoever to get rid of the [[:Category:Winter Hill Gang]] category which has 20 articles, 19 of which are persons who were in that gang.  Whether they are also in some other appropriate category is not relevant. [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] ([[User talk:Hmains|talk]]) 17:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
**Just because said category has 20 articles is not a reason to keep it.  The question is, why do we need a category for one gang---one gang out of many Irish gangs?  There is no other category for a specific gang, and since the gang is already listed in the Irish gangs category, and all of the members are listed in either Irish gang members or Irish mobsters (or both), this category is superfluous.  You have failed to provid a justification for its continued existence. ---<span style="font-family:Celtic;">[[User:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#009900">RepublicanJacobite</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#006600">The'FortyFive'</span>]]''</sub></span> 17:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
***The facts are found in [[:Category:Modern street gangs]] where various gangs have their members listed.  Do we have the facts on who belongs to other gangs?  Then we need to create categories to show these facts.  The idea is to improve WP, not degrade it to the lowest common denominator.  [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] ([[User talk:Hmains|talk]]) 18:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per Hmains. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:15, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per others. I've changed a mistake in the nom too as it was a repeat of previous nom. now reads [[:Category:Winter Hill Gang]] as it should. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 05:31, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' Category is sufficiently possible that no merging would be useful. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] ([[User talk:Doczilla|talk]]) 07:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' When articles relate to the same subject then a subcategory is usually proper. Here we have multiple members of the same gang, not a vaguely defined "Irish mob". [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 21:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per Hmains. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 21:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Irish gangs ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''keep'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:47, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Suggest merging''' [[:Category:Irish gangs]] to [[:Category:Irish mob]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Merge''', I suggest that this rather poorly-populated sub-cat be merged into its parent category Irish mob.  I think we are better served by one larger category than a small category with a host of very small subcats.-<span style="font-family:Celtic;">[[User:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#009900">RepublicanJacobite</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#006600">The'FortyFive'</span>]]''</sub></span> 03:15, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''keep''' as is. [[:Category:Irish gangs]] and [[:Category:Irish mob]] serve different purposes and have different contents as would be expected since [[:Category:Irish gangs]] is a subcat of  [[:Category:Irish mob]].  Upmerging this cat will not help WP in the proper and helpful-to-readers organization of its categories.  [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] ([[User talk:Hmains|talk]]) 20:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' unnecessary racial/ethnic category. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as unnecessary racial/ethnic category. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 05:42, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''question''' Since the articles in the [[:Category:Irish gangs]] identify the gangs as an 'Irish gang', do you propose to suppress that historical correct information also?  Is this all for the sake of political correctness at the expense of historical fact? [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] ([[User talk:Hmains|talk]]) 18:23, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
::No I don't think anyone wants to suppress any info in the articles? I know I don't. If the article primarily about an Irish Gang was put into [[:Category:Gangs]] that's not going to change any of the article content. It is still categorized and we do away with an unnecessary ethnic level of categorization. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 13:03, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' or upmerge to [[:Category:Irish mob]] (which has its own article [[Irish mob]], giving clear justification to the existence of this particular ethnic category). There is also [[:Category:Irish American gangs]] which is surely the same category as [[:Category:Irish gangs]] (as these are all US gangs). [[User:Roundhouse0|-- roundhouse0]] ([[User talk:Roundhouse0|talk]]) 16:56, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' as I don't think the category is actually underpopulated. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 21:23, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per Hmains. --[[User:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#4682B4; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Beloved</span>]][[User talk:Belovedfreak|<span style="color:#008B8B; font-family: trebuchet; font-variant: small-caps">Freak</span>]] 21:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Irish-American gang members ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''delete'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:{{Lc|Irish-American gang members}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' This category is irrelevant, since all of the people listed within it are already listed in the much larger [[:Category:Irish-American mobsters]] .  As such, it should be deleted. <span style="font-family:Celtic;">[[User:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#009900">RepublicanJacobite</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#006600">The'FortyFive'</span>]]''</sub></span> 03:11, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''keep'''  The people in [[:Category:Irish-American gang members]] were generally not listed in [[:Category:Irish-American mobsters]] until the nominator placed them there, without any apparent justification from the contents of the articles.  This deletion argument is therefore specious.  Article content drives categories not the other way around.  [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] ([[User talk:Hmains|talk]]) 17:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
**Please explain to me, if you can, sir, what the inherant difference is between an "Irish-American gang member" and an "Irish-American mobster."  You cannot, of course, because there is no inherant difference.  As the two are identical, the smaller category should be deleted. ---<span style="font-family:Celtic;">[[User:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#009900">RepublicanJacobite</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|<span style="color:#006600">The'FortyFive'</span>]]''</sub></span> 18:00, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
***Do not presume you can know what I can explain or not.  Gangs and gang members refer to street gangs; the mob and mobsters refer to organized crime of the Mafia and its associates.  And there is nothing wrong about small categories in WP.  They are allowed.  [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] ([[User talk:Hmains|talk]]) 18:26, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' unnecessary race/ethnicity category. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' par Carlossuarez46. unnecessary. [[User:Sting au|<b style="color:green; font-family:Vladimir Script;">Sting au</b>]] ''<small>[[User_talk:Sting au|<span style="color:gold; ">Buzz Me...</span>]]</small>'' 05:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per [[WP:OC]] [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] ([[User talk:Doczilla|talk]]) 07:11, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''question''' Since the articles in the [[:Category:Irish-American gang members]] identify the people as Irish American and as gang members, do you propose to suppress this historically correct information also?  Is this all for the sake of political correctness at the expense of historic fact? [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] ([[User talk:Hmains|talk]]) 18:29, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
**Well, there are only 13 Google hits for "Irish American" "gang member" on the English wiki.  And you don't need the category to find them. Not a big universe.  [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 02:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Merge'''to Irish-American mobsters. The distinction is vague and the other term seems to be favored by most users. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 21:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Free integrated development environments ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Free integrated development environments]] to [[:Category:Open source integrated development environments]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. The criteria for this category is having an [[Open Source Initiative|OSI]] license, which is somewhat different to what is considered [[free software]]. See the discussion at [[Open Source Initiative#Relations with the free software movement]]. Either the category name or criteria should be changed to match. In addition, the use of the word "free" in this context is not in line with normal English usage. [[User:Ham Pastrami|Ham Pastrami]] ([[User talk:Ham Pastrami|talk]]) 02:10, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Java tools ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
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The result of the discussion was  '''rename'''. [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Java tools]] to [[:Category:Java development tools]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''rename:''' Category name is vague and does not specify the intended contents of the category. [[User:Ham Pastrami|Ham Pastrami]] ([[User talk:Ham Pastrami|talk]]) 01:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. Mmm, coffee. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 17:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>