View source for Help talk:Wikitext/Archive 1

{{aan}}

== Where is full documentation? ==

This page is missing a bunch of tags.  For example it does not document &lt;ref&gt; or &lt;source&gt;.  Where is either a link to this documentation or the description itself?  Thank you.  [[User:Jrincayc|Jrincayc]] ([[User talk:Jrincayc|talk]]) 13:40, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
:I'm afraid as far as I know this is the page that gives the best index, and yes needs more work ... the link for 'source' is hidden away, ([[mw:Extension:SyntaxHighlight GeSHi]]), and any mention of 'ref' seems to be missing! 
:I started a section on using references, I only know a few attributes myself so please help by adding any I missed [[User:Frequencydip|Frequencydip]] ([[User talk:Frequencydip|talk]]) 17:56, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
:([[Wikipedia:Footnotes]]), please list any others you find missing. --[[user:leevanjackson|Lee&there4;V]] [[User talk:leevanjackson|<span style="color:#a3bfb1;">(talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/leevanjackson|<span style="color:#a3bfb1;">contribs)</span>]] 19:48, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

The page [[Help:Wikitext examples]] used to have examples for the 'ref' and 'source' tags.
Until someone deleted all the text on that page and made it into a redirect[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Wikitext_examples&diff=next&oldid=329587277].
Is it better to (a) unto that delete and restore that page, or (b) merge all the information that was on that page into this [[Help:Wiki markup]] page?
--[[Special:Contributions/68.0.124.33|68.0.124.33]] ([[User talk:68.0.124.33|talk]]) 05:42, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
::Most of that previous page was merged, or at least covered by this one.. obviously not 'ref' which we should merge/create a section for...maybe with mention of the cite templates? [[user:leevanjackson|Lee&there4;V]] [[User talk:leevanjackson|<span style="color:#a3bfb1;">(talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/leevanjackson|<span style="color:#a3bfb1;">contribs)</span>]] 22:28, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Just a little warning: The documention will always be incomplete, since Wikipedia is changing and programmers are known for being lazy with documentation (like everybody else: see the summaries in page histories). -- [[User:Tomdo08|Tomdo08]] ([[User talk:Tomdo08|talk]]) 10:00, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I will complete it i am a researcher [[User:Mohammad Tayebbakhsh|mühl]] ([[User talk:Mohammad Tayebbakhsh|talk]]) 22:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

== Underlining ==

Shouldn't there be an underlining for the general guidelines of writing? I tried adding it twice, all to no avail (because both got deleted). [[User:QM400032|QM400032]] ([[User talk:QM400032|talk]]) 13:01, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:I think the consensus is that the subject is sufficiently covered at [[MOS:BADEMPHASIS]] and [[WP:Underlining]]. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 13:13, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:If underlining is to be addressed at all in general guidelines, it should be ''discouraged''—which is why we don’t have ''wiki'' markup for it ({{tag|u}} is [[HTML]]). Or do you have a case where underlining is more appropriate than italicizing? —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 15:33, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

:I’m sorry that you keep getting reverted, but this page is primarily about wiki markup. While the site also supports a good amount of HTML markup, HTML is not wiki markup, and is not the subject of this page. If a bit of HTML is in common editor use in the project (e.g., {{tag|ins}} and {{tag|del}} when <del>editing</del> <ins>revising</ins> Talk page posts), it may be included here, but I ''really'' don’t think that’s true for {{tag|u}} underlining or CSS background colors. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 21:59, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

:Actually, it IS true:<br />
{{tag|u}}<br />
gives you<br />
<u>...</u><br />
[[User:QM400032|QM400032]] ([[User talk:QM400032|talk]]) 01:16, 18 May 2013 (UTC)‎
:Um… okay, really not sure what you’re trying to say here. Underlining ellipses is not something that Wikipedia editors commonly do, so my point stands.
:Also, your signature contains no links to your user page or Talk page, so you should probably fix that. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 01:26, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
::The ellipsis is a standard technique for representing markup whose actual content is immaterial, see the documentation at {{tlx|tag}}. {{user|QM400032}} could have written {{tag|u|content=some underlined text}} gives you <u>some underlined text</u>.
::I think that what QM400032 is saying is that since the {{tag|u}} markup does have a visible effect, it should be described on this page. We are not saying that the {{tag|u}} markup should be excluded because it doesn't work - we are saying that it should be excluded from the page [[Help:Wiki markup]] because (i) it's not Wiki markup, but HTML, and as such is sufficiently described at [[Help:HTML in wikitext]]; (ii) we should not be encouraging the use of techniques that other pages (such as [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting]]) have stated should not be used. We should have consistent policies, and apply them consistently. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 08:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

== Should the output of redirects be shown? ==
::'''NOTE:''' This thread is about the [[Help:Wiki markup#Redirects]] section of the page, and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Wiki_markup&oldid=556364790#Redirects this change] <small>(Note added by [[User:Quiddity|Quiddity]] ([[User talk:Quiddity|talk]]) 08:31, 25 May 2013 (UTC))</small>
In a lot of the examples on this page, the output of the markup is shown alongside the use of the markup. Another editor has attempted to add the output of redirects: {{quote|1=[[file:redirect page.png]]<span class="redirectText">[[United States]]</span>}} But since redirects generally aren’t (and aren’t meant to be) seen this way, I question whether this is useful. Thoughts? —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 17:57, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Alternatively, we could show {{font|color=#7d7d7d|size=84%|(Redirected from …)}}, which would be better, I think, but the examples don’t name a source page. Problem is this example can’t be formatted with existing CSS (it’s an IDed {{tag|div|o}}, not a class), so it can’t reliably match the appearance; and again, not sure how useful it would be to include. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 19:37, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

:I see no purpose served by displaying redirect output. [[User:Huon|Huon]] ([[User talk:Huon|talk]]) 18:55, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

::Actually,  I, as the person who MADE the edit, do see some reasons to make the edit:
:# It could be useful for picky users who wish to create a redirect page.
:# It gives editors a feeling of how their pages look.
::[[User:QM400032|QM400032]] ([[User talk:QM400032|talk]]) 01:49, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
:::But your second point isn’t true. The pages look like the target pages. That’s the whole point of redirecting. The process is mostly invisible to the reader, unless something goes wrong (like a [[WP:double redirect|double redirect]]).
:::As to your first point, I’m really not sure what you mean. A redirect page is blank except for the <code>#REDIRECT</code>. Could you clarify your point? —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 02:43, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
::::Added main link to [[Help:Redirect]] which covers this in full. --<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup></span> 13:32, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I've added a "Note" at the top of this thread, making it easier for people who come directly to the talkpage thread, to understand what the hell everyone is talking about. I hope this meme propagates. –[[User:Quiddity|Quiddity]] ([[User talk:Quiddity|talk]]) 08:31, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

== The "==heading==" code is misleading. ==

I think the "==heading==" template should be changed to "==topic==" and "===subtopic===" and "====subtopic of subtopic====". By using heading while showing different text sizes, we indicate that it is a font, instead of an outline.

[[User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|TheUnknownNinjaNN2]] ([[User talk:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|talk]]) 14:34, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

:How about adding a line a la "Two == are used for sections, more for sub-sections, sub-sub-sections and so on." to clarify the use? [[User:Huon|Huon]] ([[User talk:Huon|talk]]) 05:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

What does "a la" mean? That idea does sound better, though.
[[User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|TheUnknownNinjaNN2]] ([[User talk:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|talk]]) 22:40, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
:It's from the French, see [[wikt:fr:à la#Locution prépositive]] also [[wikt:fr:a la#Locution prépositive]], or if you prefer English, [[wikt:à la#Preposition]] also [[wikt:a la#Preposition]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:49, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks.

As for the issue, should I go make a change? What is the consensus?

[[User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|TheUnknownNinjaNN2]] ([[User talk:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|talk]]) 23:30, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

:Don't know what you mean by font. The hatnote for the section leads you to [[Help:Section]], which explains in depth. --<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup></span> 00:17, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Could do something like this, but honestly it looks a bit silly:
{{markup
|<nowiki>== Section ==</nowiki>
|{{fake heading|Section}}
|<nowiki>=== Subsection ===</nowiki>
|{{fake heading|sub=3|Subsection}}
|<nowiki>==== Sub-subsection ====</nowiki>
|{{fake heading|sub=4|Sub-subsection}}
|<nowiki>===== Sub-sub-subsection =====</nowiki>
|{{fake heading|sub=5|Sub-sub-subsection}}
|<nowiki>====== Sub-sub-sub-subsection ======</nowiki>
|{{fake heading|sub=6|Sub-sub-sub-subsection}}
}}
—[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 00:41, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, but code DOES look silly. The meaning is made extremely obvious so people don't mess stuff up. I see no reason why someone shouldn't do the same for Wikicode.

[[User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|TheUnknownNinjaNN2]] ([[User talk:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|talk]]) 06:19, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
:I meant the wording: “Sub-sub-sub-subsection.” But you have a point—that does make the meaning glaringly obvious. It just shouldn’t be comically so. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 06:40, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't see the comedy. I guess we need an appropriate name for each level?

[[User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|TheUnknownNinjaNN2]]([[User talk:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|Talk]],[[User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2/sandbox|Always willing to discuss this subject]]) 07:21, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
:I meant comic as in ridiculous or ludicrous, not comedic. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 07:38, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

:::I’ve edited the page, replacing the <nowiki>==Heading==</nowiki> examples with a subset of the above. I’ve also split it into rows, as I’ve just done above. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 07:38, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
::::I'm dropping out and unwatching. --<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup></span> 10:55, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Dropping out and unwatching?

[[User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|TheUnknownNinjaNN2]]([[User talk:TheUnknownNinjaNN2|Talk]],[[User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2/sandbox|Always willing to discuss this subject]]) 20:17, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

== <nowiki>{{Expand list|date=August 2011}}  {|class="wikitable sortable"</nowiki> ==

Is this document supposed to be a complete reference for the WikiMedia markup language?

If not, then please put a link to the complete reference somewhere in the intro text.  I was referred to this page form another summary page and neither is providing any help in trying to understand the language '<nowiki>{{Expand list|date=August 2011}}

{|class="wikitable sortable"</nowiki>'

That I find in the article here [[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_China_by_population|List_of_cities_in_China_by_population]].

The goal is to get the column like "Built-Up Area" to treat the data as numbers and sort appropriately.  Instead the data is sorted as if it is text and the first number of the data is sorted, so that 5,000 is before 300 and then 1,000,000 is last.

So two issues:

1) Provide a clear source with complete markup language

2) If you by chance know how to get the table to sort by number, that would be great.

Thanks.[[User:Sthubbar|Sthubbar]] ([[User talk:Sthubbar|talk]]) 05:59, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
:There is no single page listing all the possible markup and issues. Within [[Help:Wiki markup]], tables are mentioned in the navigation box at the top right, and in the section [[Help:Wiki markup#Tables]]. Both of those take you to [[Help:Table]] - a very long page - and from there you can get to [[Help:Sorting]] - another very long page.

:I've made an edit at [[List of cities in China by population]], following the advice at [[Help:Sorting#Forcing a column to have a particular data type]]. -- [[User:John of Reading|John of Reading]] ([[User talk:John of Reading|talk]]) 06:22, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

:As John pointed to, <code><nowiki>{|</nowiki></code> markup is how wiki tables are made, and information about it can be found on that page. I really don’t think it would be practical to have all of this information collated on a single page; it would be ridiculously long, I think, and harder to find what you were looking for.
:The first thing you mentioned, {{tlc|Expand list|2=date=August 2011}}, is a ''template''. Templates’ effects can be very different from one to the next, but you can find information about them at [[Help:Template]] or [[Help:A quick guide to templates]]. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 07:10, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

== small-size text ==
I think i'm having a problem generating or seeing small-size text.  The instruction for doing that is e.g.:  <nowiki><small> (this text should appear small) </small></nowiki>.  I know that used to work.  (Such instruction is given in this talk page's associated article or Help Page.  There do a Find for 'small text'.)
But when i do that now, the text at issue does not appear small to me.  Any suggestions?  Thanks in advance. [[User:Bo99|Bo99]] ([[User talk:Bo99|talk]]) 18:09, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
:It looks fine to me: for example, I see <small>this text</small> as a smaller font size; to be exact, it's 9.9px instead of 12.7px. Where have you tried to use {{tag|small}}, that is not working? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:21, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
::  Thanks very much.  Your above words 'this text' are the same size as all your other text, on my screen.  I got the same type of result when i used the coding <nowiki><small> </small></nowiki> on various test pages, e.g. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:X6&action=edit this test page].  The problem is that my Internet browser is Mozilla Firefox, not Microsoft Internet Explorer.  I just found an Internet Explorer copy on my pc, loaded it, and now i see that your above words 'this text' are indeed smaller than your other text.  So the problem is Mozilla Firefox.  I will report the problem to Mozilla.  Thanks again.  [[User:Bo99|Bo99]] ([[User talk:Bo99|talk]]) 21:00, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
:::I use Firefox... and it's always shown small text just fine. Perhaps you've got a custom setting that overrides this. For example, open the "Tools" menu, and select "Options", then "Content". Under "Fonts & Colors" you should find {{button|Advanced}}; click that, and find "Minimum font size". What is selected from the menu there? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:20, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
::::  Redrose, thank you so much.  You are exactly right.  The problem was Firefox's 'Minimum font size'.  Your analysis was right, you wrote it right, and you wrote it promptly.  Thanks again.  [[User:Bo99|Bo99]] ([[User talk:Bo99|talk]]) 22:46, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

== References and citing sources table ==

i'm confused by this table entry under [[Help:Wiki_markup#References_and_citing_sources|References and citing sources]]:

{| class="wikitable"
| A complete reference tag || {{tag|ref|o|params=name="WikiMarkup"}}<code><nowiki>{{cite web |url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Wiki_markup |title=Help:Wiki markup |publisher=Wikimedia Foundation}}</nowiki></code>{{tag|ref|c}}
|}

in not sure why the url is given as '''http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Wiki_markup''', 

instead of '''http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_markup'''.

i was trying to learn citations, and how to make the "|title=" part of it, so the citation i was making wouldn't be the long messy url. 
in this example, the url (unnecessarily?) ends with "'''title=Help:Wiki_markup'''", which is immediately followed by the markup for the title which is identical except for the underscore "'''|title=Help:Wiki markup'''".

does what i'm asking make any sense? i'm a super novice editor, so i'm not sure if there's a reason for choosing one url over the other. &asymp;[[User:Sensorsweep|Sensorsweep]] ([[User talk:Sensorsweep|talk]]) 18:59, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
:Some websites permit a given page to be reached via more than one URL, and Wikipedia is one such. Any Wikipedia page whose URL is of the pattern <code><nowiki>http://</nowiki>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/''pagename''</code> may also be reached as <code><nowiki>http://</nowiki>en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=''pagename''</code> and indeed also as <code><nowiki>http://</nowiki>en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=''pagename''&action=view</code> In general, you should use the shortest form that is guaranteed to reach the desired page. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:27, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

== Just coming and going ==

My wiki markups just dissapeared. They are there like every fifth edit. How can I get it back? What is wrong? [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 00:28, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
:This is an ongoing issue for many people.  You might want to follow the discussion happening at [[WP:VPT#‎Skin and gadget issues 16 May 2014]]. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Makyen|Makyen]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Makyen|talk]]) 00:44, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

::Hm, now is back... but maybe it was you who mend it? {{smiley}} [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 01:49, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
:::Not me. It has been happening off and on for a few/several hours. It may, or may no, be fixed at this point. In other words, it may stop working again.  People are working on the problem.  If you want, you can follow the thread I linked above.  &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Makyen|Makyen]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Makyen|talk]]) 01:59, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm having problems with "nowiki" not working. Is this the same problem and is it still being investigated? --[[User:Ronz|Ronz]] ([[User talk:Ronz|talk]]) 18:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Ronz}} What page is this on? What are you attempting to achieve by the use of {{tag|nowiki}}?? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:16, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
::Thanks for taking an interest. I first noted it on my personal page that I use for notes and reference, where I have items like <nowiki>{{subst:welcomeg}}</nowiki><br /> that I can quickly refer to and copy: [[User:Ronz/notes#Spam]]. I'm guessing that perhaps something previous on the page is interfering...--[[User:Ronz|Ronz]] ([[User talk:Ronz|talk]]) 19:23, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
::I copied the section to the top where it works, so it's likely something is interfering. --[[User:Ronz|Ronz]] ([[User talk:Ronz|talk]]) 19:28, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
:::Ah, you mean the UNIQ...QINU stuff? See [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 128#some sort of mediawiki error is happening]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:15, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
::::That's it. Thanks. Glad it's fixed. --[[User:Ronz|Ronz]] ([[User talk:Ronz|talk]]) 21:32, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

== Where to go with help requests? ==

Hey guys. I'm having trouble with my Talk page in that all the text is being put on the right-hand side. I've just recently come back to Wikipedia after a 4-year hiatus so am unfamiliar with all the intricacies of its codes, so where could I go to get assistance in making new messages and so on go and stay on the left - and indeed if further formatting problems arise in the future(not sure if this is the right place)? I don't actually remember having this issue before... Would appreciate pointers! [[User:Ayrton Prost|<span style="font-family:Futura Bold Italic; color:navy;">'''AyrtonProst'''</span>]] <sup>'''[[User talk:Ayrton Prost|<span style="font-family:Futura Bold Italic; color:black;">Radio</span>]]'''</sup> 12:50, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
:There's a "close table" markup (<code>|}</code>) missing above the first section header, after your archive box. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 13:13, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
::{{replyto|Ayrton Prost}} There's also a spurious {{tag|center|c}} - if you replace that with the <code><nowiki>|}</nowiki></code> table-end marker, it should fix the layout. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 13:40, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
:::It worked! Thank you so much, friends! [[User:Ayrton Prost|<span style="font-family:Futura Bold Italic; color:navy;">'''AyrtonProst'''</span>]] <sup>'''[[User talk:Ayrton Prost|<span style="font-family:Futura Bold Italic; color:black;">Radio</span>]]'''</sup> 13:54, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

== Formatting dates and numbers ==
I know this page is about wiki markup, but considering the fact that the [[Help:Formatting]] page redirects to [[Help:Wiki markup]], then I think the page should include a little bit of information about templates like {{tl|date}} and {{tl|val}}, because this is where the users will land if they try to learn about formatting the text.

I am an experienced user (I would say) but I just had to ask silly questions at [[Wikipedia:Help desk#Date conversion templates]] because I did not know where else to look for.

If those things don't fit here, then [[Help:Formatting]] should be a distinct page, teaching about such templates.

Also, there should be some "Formattting disambiguation" since there are many distinct formatting guides: 
* [[Wikipedia:Formatting]] == [[Wikipedia:Text formatting]]
* [[Help:Formatting]] == [[Help:Wiki markup]]
* [[Help:Text formatting]]
— [[User:Ark25|'''<span style="background:#0070F0;color:#ffffff">&nbsp;Ark25&nbsp;</span>''']] ([[User_talk:Ark25|talk]]) 21:45, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

:Hi. While I'm not an expert I'll attempt to answer your query.

:Templates are a big problem, at least how I see it. The main problem being the vast number of them. Now you're probably aware that [[Wikipedia:Template messages]] exist which is hierarchical list of templates, divided into the following. For main (article) namespace there is a total of 17 sub-categories listed. In addition, there are 8 other boxes, for templates usually used on other other namespaces. Also, the is a navbox at the bottom which has a handy search function, as well as another search box on the page.

:Now if you look through these you'll notice just how many are listed. And there is a lot. Now if all these were transferred to the wiki markup page it would impossible long. It is just not possible.

:My advice, if you want to look up templates, is to try to use [[Wikipedia:Template messages]] which, although it looks unfriendly, is actually pretty comprehensive, if you include the navbox and serach function. If you can't find it there the Help desk is again a good option. Don't forget that there is an archive search function in addition. Other ways of getting help are listed at [[Wikipedia:Requests]] and [[Wikipedia:Questions]].

:Now [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting]] is written from a different perspective to wiki markup. Its focus is the article guidelines on text formatting presentation, rather than the actual coding. So I feel a merge would not be good. As for [[Help:Text formatting]] it looks like someone started it but didn't really progress. But with a lot of work it could be helpful, but probably be mostly stuff included here.

:Anyway, I hope that helps. --[[User:Mrjulesd|<span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:blue;">'''Mrjulesd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Mrjulesd|<span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:orange;">(talk)</span>]] 19:16, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

:: I too had similar issues trying to look for the right template specific to the needs I was looking to achieve.  Until I stumbled across [[Wikipedia:Template messages]], and found it to be extremely useful.  And now I have my own [[User:Wesley Mouse/Templates|templates toolbox]] with links to templates that I use most often, including a pipelink to [[WP:TM]] - bit of a handy toolbox to have.  Perhaps creating such toolbox for oneself with a list of templates you use the most as a quick reference guide, and displayed on your userpage would be a good idea?  Plus if others stumble across your userpage and see the toolbox, then it may inspire and/or help them with similar issues? <span style="font-family:Corbel;text-shadow:#F70 2px 4px 6px;">'''[[User:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#1034A6">Wes Mouse</span>]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#AA0114">T@lk</span>]]</sup>'''</span> 19:36, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

== get a grip of reality, get a wyswyg==

I find it incredibly disappointing that wikipedia can't see how "wiki markup" is the biggest barrier to inclusiveness on wikipedia. I have much trouble trying to edit wikipedia and still cannot make sense of what I am looking at on an edit page. More often than not I give up and fail to contribute. 
I complained about this TEN years ago. Without a WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET editor, wikipedia is an exclusive club which favours computer nerds and those who know html.
Ordinary people cannot read markup languages and NEVER WILL! The people with the knowledge wikipedia needs are not contributing for a very good and very obvious reason.    <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/60.241.100.51|60.241.100.51]] ([[User talk:60.241.100.51|talk]]) 04:15, 3 January 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:If you [[WP:SIGNUP|register]] and log in, you can enable the [[WP:VE|VisualEditor]], which (I am told) is WYSIWYG to some degree. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 15:29, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

== Green font? ==
Hey, I've been away from editing Wikipedia for a while and now that I'm back, I'm noticing how frequently people are using green font. I can go into Edit mode to find the Wiki markup but I've searched for an explanation of why this formatting was adopted and what it means. It looks like it is an alternative to a blockquote. But since it is now widely used, it seems like some explanation should be included on this page. Thanks! [[User:Liz|<span style="font-family:Rage Italic; font-size:large; color:#800080;">'''''L'''''iz</span>]] <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Liz|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:#006400;">'''''Read!'''''</span>]] [[User talk:Liz|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:#006400;">'''''Talk!'''''</span>]]</sup> 15:39, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
:I think they are probably using the template {{tl|tq}}, e.g. {{tq|example text}}. Tip: look at the source of the page, you can usually work out which template they use. --[[User:Mrjulesd|<span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:blue;">'''Mrjulesd'''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Mrjulesd|<span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:orange;">(talk)</span>]] 15:45, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
::{{replyto|Liz}} That, or {{tlx|xt}} {{xt|which looks like this}}. These templates both alter the font family (to Georgia, if possible; failing that, 'DejaVu Serif', otherwise the browser's default serif font) and both alter the colour, although slightly differently: {{tlx|tq}} uses #008560 {{color box|#008560}} which includes a blue component, whereas {{tlx|xt}} uses #006400 {{color box|#006400}} which is darker but a pure green. Semantically, {{tlx|tq}} marks up the text with the class <code>inline-quote-talk</code> whilst {{tlx|xt}} marks up the text with two classes <code>example good-example</code>. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 17:12, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
:::{{replyto|Mrjulesd}} and {{replyto|Redrose64}}, thanks for the speedy replies. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that this would be a template instead of Wiki markup but your explanations do answer my question. Why editors are suddenly using it (compared to, say, a year ago), I don't know but {{tl|tq}} seems to have gotten very popular. I find it more difficult to read than italics or using a blockquote but my preferences aren't going to change the way people write! Thanks again for getting back to me, I find the enormous body of Wikipedia templates a little overwhelming to sort through. [[User:Liz|<span style="font-family:Rage Italic; font-size:large; color:#800080;">'''''L'''''iz</span>]] <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Liz|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:#006400;">'''''Read!'''''</span>]] [[User talk:Liz|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:#006400;">'''''Talk!'''''</span>]]</sup> 17:34, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

== formatting computer program examples ==


How should I present computer program text written in languages that are not yet supported by the "Syntaxhighlight" plugin?

[[Help: Wiki markup#Text formatting]]
now suggests using syntaxhighlight tags
(<code><nowiki><syntaxhighlight lang="JavaScript">...</syntaxhighlight></nowiki></code>).
Many articles still use the older source tags
(<code><nowiki><source lang="JavaScript">...</source></nowiki></code>).

Alas, several of the languages used in [[comparison of programming languages (mapping)]] are not yet supported by that plugin.

(My brief testing shows that "PostScript" and "Pike" seem to work with "syntaxhighlight", even though neither one are on the list of "Supported languages for syntax highlighting" that shows up when I use a language name like "MUMPS" or "SNOBOL" that it *really* doesn't know).

Which of the following approaches is the best way to present source code written in a not-yet-supported language?:
* Use syntaxhighlight and specify the particular language now. Later when the syntaxhighlight plugin is updated to support that language, that source code will "look right" with no changes needed to any of the Wikipedia articles that use it. ( <code><nowiki><syntaxhighlight lang="MUMPS">...</syntaxhighlight></nowiki></code> )
* Use syntaxhighlight and specify "lang=Text" for now. ( <code><nowiki><syntaxhighlight lang="Text">...</syntaxhighlight></nowiki></code> ). If syntaxhighlight is ever updated to support that language, then update every Wikipedia page that has source code in that language to specify that particular language rather than the generic "Text".
* use "code" tags now. ( <code><nowiki><code>...</code></nowiki></code> ). If syntaxhighlight is ever updated to support that language, then update every Wikipedia page that has source code in that language use syntaxhighlight.
* indent each line of the program text with spaces
* something else?

Which is the best way to show not-yet-supported computer languages?
--[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] ([[User talk:DavidCary|talk]]) 04:33, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
:The first one is not an option because it will throw an error "Invalid language. You need to specify a language like this: {{tag|source|params=lang="html4strict"}} Supported languages for syntax highlighting:" and also a collapsed list of valid languages. The fourth has problems because if any part of the code resembles Wiki markup, it will be processed as such.
:Personally I use option 3 for short examples of less than one line, or option 2 for multi-line examples. This actually happens quite often, since I hang around [[WP:VPT]] and there isn't an option for MediaWiki markup, see e.g. [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 134#Lua]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 12:49, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

==<nowiki><pre></nowiki> formatted text does not wrap, thus text may extend past the browser window:==
Is there a better wat to illustrate this, other than to extend past the browser window, for me it squeezes the page way to one side pushing the text to near illegibility.--[[User:KTo288|KTo288]] ([[User talk:KTo288|talk]]) 08:14, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

== Onlyinclude in transclusions ==

If you put <code>&lt;nowiki&gt; &lt;onlyinclude&gt; &lt;/onlyinclude&gt; &lt;/nowiki&gt;</code>, the onlyinclude tags are displayed literally on the page it was placed on while the text between those tags will be displayed when transcluded. There are two ways to fix this problem: you can either use html encoding (i.e. < can be replaced with <code>&amp;lt;</code> and > with <code>&amp;gt;</code>) or split the text inside the nowiki tags into two parts where the first part has fewer characters than <code>&lt;onlyinclude&gt;</code> and put each part separately inside two pairs of nowiki tags. In the latter case, the first part can be <code><, <o, <on, <onl, <only, <onlyi, <onlyin, <onlyinc, <onlyincl, <onlyinclu, <onlyinclud, or <onlyinclude</code> and the second part will then begin with <code>onlyinclude>, nlyinclude>, lyinclude>, yinclude>, include>, nclude>, clude>, lude>, ude>, de>, e>, or ></code> respectively. [[User:GeoffreyT2000|GeoffreyT2000]] ([[User talk:GeoffreyT2000|talk]]) 15:13, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

==March 2016==
how should I eddit [[User:Karthik yadav vaddarapu|Karthik yadav vaddarapu]] ([[User talk:Karthik yadav vaddarapu|talk]]) 06:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

:{{ping|Karthik yadav vaddarapu}} - If you are asking about Wiki Mark-up, you might want clarify your question. Otherwise, I suggest you try the [[WP:HD|help desk]]. -  ''[[User: Thewolfchild|<sup>the</sup>'''<big><em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF</em></big>'''<small>child</small>]]'' 08:14, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

== Mailto Escape ==
I am looking for a way to link distribution lists internally.  For example <nowiki>[All Employees]</nowiki> is a distribution list setup for us to use with Outlook.  It uses brackets as an indicator for a distribution list.  I would like to add mailto links.  When I try to use html code or the nowiki indicators, I always end up with something that is non-functional.  Any ideas?
-[[User:CoolCole|CoolCole]] 16:52, 13 May 2010 (EST)
:I don’t know what you mean by a distribution list in Wiki, but email links work the same as HTTP links. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 17:03, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
:What he means is that the distribution list doesn't function because the mailing list has a space. It ends up having "mailto:[All" as the link, and Employees] as the text.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/208.38.59.163|208.38.59.163]] ([[User talk:208.38.59.163|talk]]) 22:20, 12 July 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== http: https ==

http:  is used in all the examples- should this be changed? --[[User:ClemRutter|ClemRutter]] ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]]) 06:45, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
:It depends on the example. For those to Wikimedia sites, probably yes. For others, probably no. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 08:13, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

== Semi/colon ==

I just added a semicolon and colon to the text describing it, to show examples, and given the following results, I’m guessing said description is incomplete:

<blockquote>
;A semicolon at the start of a line
is not displayed, but has the effect
of rendering the newline.

:A colon in such a line is not rendered,
but has the effect of starting a new,
indented line.
</blockquote>

I really have no idea what a semicolon is supposed to do, but that description is inaccurate. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 04:10, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

:{{Fixed}}. A semicolon at the start of a line renders the line in '''bold'''. -- [[User:OlEnglish|<span style="font-size:x-large">&oelig;</span>]][[User talk:OlEnglish|<sup>&trade;</sup>]] 10:09, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

::I hadn’t looked at the HTML source before, but a semicolon renders as a <code><nowiki><dt></nowiki></code> element, and a colon as a <code><nowiki><dd></nowiki></code> element, which implies they should be used as such:
::{| class="wikitable" border="1"
|-
|
;Term
:Definition
|
<pre>;Term
:Definition</pre>
|}
::I’m not sure how this should work in Wikipedia articles, or even if it has any relevance whatsoever. I added the semicolon item because I noticed it in use on this page, but should we remove it? —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 20:07, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

; Reply
In practice, semicolons are usually used to make a very minor subheading – one that will not appear in the table of contents. With colons used mostly for simple indentation, this means that they are very rarely paired with semicolons, despite the HTML implying that they should be. But we ought to explain to people what the semicolon does so they understand why some subheadings are formatted very differently from the <code>==</code>usual<code>==</code> heading styles. In effect, the Wikitext semantics have now diverged from the HTML semantics, despite the Wikitext being converted to <code>&lt;dt&gt;</code> and <code>&lt;dd&gt;</code> when rendered. — [[User:Richardguk|Richardguk]] ([[User talk:Richardguk|talk]]) 02:43, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:I thought subheadings beyond ====a certain level====  stopped appearing in the table of contents. I could have sworn I remembered reading that somewhere. I could be wrong though, as I don’t have time to check right now. And in the interest of accessibility, shouldn’t Wikitext use HTML elements that make semantic sense? The use of <nowiki><dt> and <dd></nowiki> don’t. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 01:02, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
::The level up to which level the table of contents displays subheadings is something you can set, see [[WP:TOC]]. There is a MoS reqirement that consecutive headings shouldn't skip levels (so no second-level heading followed by a fourth- or sixth-level heading), see [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (layout)#Headings and sections]] and [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (accessibility)#Headings]]. As the semicolon is used in FA-rated articles for the very purpose of non-displayed sub-headings, I think it shouldn't have been removed from the help page, even if the HTML is strange. --[[User:Rontombontom|Rontombontom]] ([[User talk:Rontombontom|talk]]) 09:50, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

::Agree. Standalone colons should be converted to something like <nowiki><ul class="no_bullets"></nowiki> so they will mix with lists created by * and #. Standalone semicolons to e.g. <nowiki><h6></nowiki>. &nbsp;[[User:2aprilboy|2<span style="color:green;text-shadow:1px 1px orange;">april</span>boy]][[User_talk:2aprilboy|<sup style="color:orange;text-shadow:1px 1px green"> talk</sup>]] 16:22, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

See also [[WP:PSEUDOHEAD]]. [[User:Fgnievinski|fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 03:20, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

== Where is the article. ==

Looks as if Gedionye 9 Oct 2010 has replaced the entire article with Ethiopian DVDs or somesuch. Also looks as if it's happened before several times. I'm new to this. Will look back in a few days. Maybe this person should  be blocked.[[User:Wodawik|Wodawik]] ([[User talk:Wodawik|talk]]) 04:43, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

== Space Within External Link? ==

I made a template that includes a link to an external page.  I use this wikitext: 
<pre>[www.domain.com/whatever.php?variable={{{code}}} Link Title]</pre>
However, the "code" parameter is meant to contain a space, so my link is broken and the last half of the parameter is included in the Link Title.  Is there a way to force the URL to not break because of the space?  I tried surrounding in quotes, but this didn't work.
[[User:Soave|Soave]] ([[User talk:Soave|talk]]) 04:12, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: You can't use %20? —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 05:15, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:: The variable I'm trying to use needs to be displayed elsewhere on the Wiki page without "%20".  The workaround for now it having two variables, one with %20 and one with a space, but it would be easier if it was just one variable.  Any ideas? [[User:Soave|Soave]] ([[User talk:Soave|talk]]) 17:22, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Try wrapping it with <code><nowiki>{{urlencode:}}</nowiki></code>; see [[mw:Help:Magic words]]. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 18:04, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
::::Doesn't appear to work for template variables.  I tried "{{urlencode:{{{variableName}}}}}" (as well as wrapping the entire URL) without any luck.  Edit: Never mind, had the wrong variable name.  Thanks!!  [[User:Soave|Soave]] ([[User talk:Soave|talk]]) 18:34, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

== Suggestion for a keyword index ==

How about we make a section at the top which lists various keywords e.g. <nowiki><nowiki></nowiki> as above and link them to the relevent sections ... should help a few people out? [[user:leevanjackson|Lee&there4;V]] [[User talk:leevanjackson|<span style="color:#a3bfb1;">(talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/leevanjackson|<span style="color:#a3bfb1;">contribs)</span>]] 10:57, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:Almost sounds like a markup glossary. Something like that would definitely be useful. WP seems to be missing that sort of documentation. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 06:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
::I'll knock one up as time permits - if it is too cumbersome on this page, we can always have it as a separate index page! [[user:leevanjackson|Lee&there4;V]] [[User talk:leevanjackson|<span style="color:#a3bfb1;">(talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/leevanjackson|<span style="color:#a3bfb1;">contribs)</span>]] 18:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

==Updating section: Blend link==
I am planning to update section "Blend link" for better clarity, to note "Some endings" are blended. Also, will explain use of "&lt;nowiki/>" or smaller "&lt;b/>" to suppress the blending. The nowiki-slash tag seems to add 44 bytes to the post-expand size (versus 4 bytes for "&lt;b/>"), and might be a problem when used many times. Internally, a nowiki tag typically stores an identifier, such as: {{padleft:|41|<nowiki></nowiki>}}, rather than just 4 bytes for "&lt;b/>". -[[User talk:Wikid77|Wikid77]] 12:10, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
:<s>&lt;b/> is never valid, it should be &lt;b />. ---</s>'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 12:25, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
::Part of me wants to complain about improper semantic use of the &lt;b> tag here… but we all indent our discussion replies as dictionary list definitions, so I guess that sort of thing isn’t a concern on WP. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 07:18, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

== Amending titles ==

How does one amend the title of an article? (I need to add an accent to make a name correct.)—[[User:Philipparham]] ([[User talk:Philipparham|talk]]) 17:28, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

:See [[Help:How to move a page]]. Questions no related to markup should be asked at the [[Wikipedia:Help desk]]. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 22:46, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

== External links ==

Wouldn't it be simpler to state the characters that need to be encoded rather than the characters that don't:

{| class="wikitable"
! sp !! " !! , !! ' !! ; !! < !! > !! ? !! [ !! ]
|-
| %20 || %22 || %2c || %3a || %3b || %3c || %3e || %3f || %5b || %5d
|}
{{small|Single apostrophes do not need to be encoded; multiples will be parsed as italic or bold markup}}

---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 20:18, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

== Pronunciation ==

I was just trying to learn about the proper way to do word pronunciation guides in an article.  So I went to Help:Editing which lead to this page. I expected to, at least, be referred to the places that talk about it.  Alas, nothing.  

Does it make sense to have an ''Adding Word Pronunciation'' section that has a brief description with links to the appropriate pages?  [[User:Donpayette|Donpayette]] ([[User talk:Donpayette|talk]]) 14:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, I added a small ''Pronunciation Aids'' section to get it started.  Add, delete, modify to your hearts' content.  [[User:Donpayette|Donpayette]] ([[User talk:Donpayette|talk]]) 21:37, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia: wiki markup]] is cool! ==

I love the [[Wikipedia: wiki markup]] section because {{color|hot pink| you can change text into colors like this.}} {{color|orange| Thanks Wikipedia!}} [[User:CPGirlAJ|CPGirlAJ]] ([[User talk:CPGirlAJ|talk]]) 22:22, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

== <nowiki>{{Unicode|}}</nowiki> ==

what is <code><nowiki>{{Unicode|}}</nowiki></code> ? --[[User:Qdinar|Qdinar]] ([[User talk:Qdinar|talk]]) 13:05, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
:See its documentation [[Template:Unicode#Purpose|here]]. Also with most templates you can write <code><nowiki>{{Tl|Unicode}}</nowiki></code> to get a link ("Tl" stands for "Template link") in a display of the template like this {{Tl|Unicode}}.&nbsp;[[User:Fred_Gandt|<b style="font-family:arial;font-size:130%;color:#003e3e;">fg</b>]][[User talk:Fred_Gandt|<sup style="margin-left:3px;color:#0aa;">t</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/Fred_Gandt|<sub style="margin-left:-5px;color:#0aa;">c</sub>]] 22:39, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

== Definition lists ==

I would have hoped that we had moved beyond the simplistic idea that everybody sees our output in the same way. Far too many articles misuse definition lists to produce bold markup as if non-visual user agents didn't exist. If we use this sort of markup <code><nowiki>;Notes</nowiki></code>, we will produce this html:
<pre>
<dl>
<dt>Notes</dt>
</dl>
</pre>
which is a definition list. See http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3 . Although it may look like bold markup to a sighted reader, anybody using a non-visual agent will hear the start of a definition list, but no definition. We should not be making our text any more confusing for the visually-impaired than we have to, so I have removed our (dated) advice to use this markup in order to avoid the subheadings appearing in the table of contents.

Ideally third-level subheadings should be marked up as third-level headers (using <nowiki>===</nowiki>). I understand that some people dislike seeing them in the table of contents, but in that case, please use {{tlx|TOC limit|<var>n</var>}} or simply mark up the subheadings as bold, as that at least is harmless to most screen readers. --[[User:RexxS|RexxS]] ([[User talk:RexxS|talk]]) 16:08, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

: Yes, I see there was more that I missed and that you're seeing the TOC-limit option, too. All goodness; carry on. [[User:Br&#39;er Rabbit|Br&#39;er Rabbit]] ([[User talk:Br&#39;er Rabbit|talk]]) 16:15, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

== HTML v. wikimarkup ==

There are several sections that cover HTML, not wikimarkup:
*Line breaks
*Center text
*Text formatting
*Special characters
*Invisible text (comments)

And some sections cover templates:
*"As of" tag
*Pronunciation aids

---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 12:32, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

== Apostrophe after italics ==

How can I render the following:
: <nowiki><i>Italic text</i>'s yadda yadda</nowiki>
in wiki markup? If I type
: <nowiki>''Italic text'''s yadda yadda</nowiki>
the formatting is greedy, not lazy, and so it takes the first ' as the apostrophe, so it gets italicized, not what I want. [[Special:Contributions/132.162.216.66|132.162.216.66]] ([[User talk:132.162.216.66|talk]]) 01:39, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::Use {{tl|'}} (see [[:Template:']]):
:::'''<code><nowiki>''Italic text''{{'}}s yadda yadda</nowiki></code>''' 
::produces
:::''Italic text''{{'}}s yadda yadda
::---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 04:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Two ways to do this:

{{markup
|<nowiki>''Italic text''{{'}}s yadda yadda</nowiki>
|''Italic text''{{'}}s yadda yadda
|<nowiki>''Italic text''<nowiki />'s yadda yadda</nowiki>
|''Italic text''<nowiki />'s yadda yadda
}}
---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 17:59, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

== android problems ==

This article doesn't discuss android problems or provide solutions, for example why text visible as italics on Windows, i.e. correctly marked up with apostrophes, is displayed without italics in android 4.0.4. --[[User:Espoo|Espoo]] ([[User talk:Espoo|talk]]) 12:45, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
:Wiki markup is supposed to be browser-neutral. Editors are not expected to put browser-specific code into articles, that's why it's not mentioned. If any browsers behave differently (and believe me, none are exactly the same as the others) we sometimes put special code into one or more of the various CSS classes or Javascript files.
:You're probably best posting at [[WP:VPT]] giving as much detail as possible - not just the browser version, but also which pages are affected, and which wikimarkup is misbehaving. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:53, 12 October 2012 (UTC)


== Indent and outdent ==

I've changed (I hope ''enhanced'') the description of indent & added outdent - description & reference - mainly because I keep forgetting how to do the outdent when I need it.
[[User:One is one and one is one|One is one and one is one]] ([[User talk:One is one and one is one|talk]]) 04:04, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

== Introductory Video Inappropriate ==

I don't think that the video present next to the table of contents should have been added in the first place because of how it is basically a slideshow covering only ''some'' of the article's content instead of a complete, step-by-step tutorial, which would be more appropriate if it were either added to its own section before the first section or after the last one or broken into segments pertaining to each of the article's sections.  I also think that the video's creator did not consider the superfluity introduced into the video by its background music.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:BCG999|BCG999]] ([[User talk:BCG999|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/BCG999|contribs]]) 01:31, 26 November 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== References in other languages or "Who holds the truth" ==
The ref in other languages section seems wrong in saying "es:plancton" between double square brackets. It does not work, and Jason at the teahouse indicated ":es:plancton" between sq.br., which work. So: what is the reference ??? the proof in the pudding or the manual page (which I hesitate to change, because that has meta-impact. [[User:Frederic Y Bois|Frederic Y Bois]] ([[User talk:Frederic Y Bois|talk]]) 20:45, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

:There is nothing wrong with the manual page. Thanks for not trying to change it. As [[Help:Wiki markup#Link to the same article in another language (interlanguage links)]] says, there are two types of interlanguage links. The primary one is without colon and creates a link under the "Languages" heading in the left pane of the page, regardless of where the link code was placed. For example, <code><nowiki>[[es:Plancton]]</nowiki></code> is near the bottom of the wiki source of [[Plankton]], but it creates the link on the word "Español" at [[Plankton#p-lang]]. The other type of link is with colon and and rarely used. It places a link right where the code is. For example the code <code><nowiki>[[:es:Plancton]]</nowiki></code> is here: [[:es:Plancton]]. Neither of the link types are allowed as references for the content in an English Wikipedia article. Wikipedia itself is not considered a reliable source by our own policies and should not be used as a reference. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 22:04, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
:{{ec}} Please note that the <code><nowiki>[[]]</nowiki></code> markup is not a reference, but a link. See [[WP:CITEBEGIN]] to find out about references.
:I'm not sure which page you have in mind when you write "the ref in other languages section", but please see [[Help:Interlanguage links]] for details about the difference between <code><nowiki>[[es:plancton]]</nowiki></code> (without initial colon) and <code><nowiki>[[:es:plancton]]</nowiki></code> (with initial colon). Briefly, both forms create a link to a page on another Wikipedia (in this case Spanish), but the difference lies in where that link is placed. The form without an initial colon puts the link in the left-hand margin of the page, under the "Languages" heading (the link is shown as "Español"); whereas the form with an initial colon puts the link in the normal flow of text. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:20, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

== Magic links ==

* {{PMID|12122621}} [[MediaWiki:Pubmedurl]]
* {{ISBN|978-0-471-70410-2}}
* RFC 882 [[MediaWiki:rfcurl]]
--'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup> 13:58, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

== formating question ==

I need how to write a caret notation in italic (this not related to any wikimedia project, but urgent).  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2A02:8422:1191:6E00:56E6:FCFF:FEDB:2BBA|2A02:8422:1191:6E00:56E6:FCFF:FEDB:2BBA]] ([[User talk:2A02:8422:1191:6E00:56E6:FCFF:FEDB:2BBA|talk]]) 20:34, 27 February 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== We could use a smaller picture ==

If we used a smaller picture in the images section we could reduce the size a little ... and bring the instructions closer together, don't know what picture, something simple, colourful? anything really. We could replace image on the cheatsheet to reduce its size a tad too... I like the WP globe - but we do have it in the top left already ;) [[user:leevanjackson|Lee&there4;V]] [[User talk:leevanjackson|<span style="color:#a3bfb1;">(talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/leevanjackson|<span style="color:#a3bfb1;">contribs)</span>]] 12:14, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

;Problem: PDF of this page has malformed table (goes off edges of display/paper) in ''Images'' section (pages 16-18). 
;Cause: All other tables are 766 px or less wide, but the ''Images'' table is formatted to 1027 px by unknown means.
;Code Fix: Unknown. Firebugged the code but table absolutely refuses to narrow using either direct code or CSS. D***edest thing I've ever seen.
:[[User:JimScott|JimScott]] ([[User talk:JimScott|talk]]) 05:26, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

== Rework ==

As I get into this, it seems to me that this help page has become rather a mish-mash of information. Much of it is useful, but much of it just doesn't work here. There is a lot here beyond the title subject of wikimarkup. Much is better covered on other help pages.
* Text formatting: this should be moved to [[Help:Text formatting]]
* Headings: [[Help:Section]]
* Line breaks: [[Wikipedia:Line-break handling]]
* Special characters: [[Help:Special characters]]
* Lists: [[Help:List]]
* Quotations: create [[Help:Quotations]] to handle the technical creation of quotations (currently a redirect o an essay)
* Links: [[Help:Link]] and [[Help:URL]]
* Pronunciation: [[Help:IPA]]
* Images: [[Wikipedia:Picture tutorial]]
* Tables: [[Help:Table]]
* References: [[Wikipedia:Citing sources]], [[Help:Footnotes]] and others
* Templates: [[Help:Templates]]
* Talk pages: [[Help:Talk]]
* Limiting formatting: [[Help:Text formatting]]
* Variables: [[Help:Magic words]]
--'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup> 13:04, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

::mish-mash is an understatement!  Not wanting to decipher text that is actually examples of marking up is the same reason why I stay away from crossword puzzles, or that sudoku stuff. Suggest instead a sample page each from a number of featured articles, and listed underneath the markups used therein, and explanations for them. I would guess that 99% of the population can handle learning it that way. [[Special:Contributions/69.117.164.197|69.117.164.197]] ([[User talk:69.117.164.197|talk]]) 02:18, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

== Brackets within the link of the "File:" ==

I try to use this format <nowiki>[[File:someimage|</nowiki>'''<nowiki>link={{{place}}}}</nowiki>'''<nowiki>]]</nowiki>
by placing a value of the parameter to link to the article, but some of the editors give the value within the infobox in square brackets.

If we add the value as:
:<nowiki>[[File:Flag of the United States.svg|20px|link=USA]]</nowiki> => [[File:Flag of the United States.svg|20px|link=USA]]

is OK, but when we do:
:<nowiki>[[File:Flag of the United States.svg|20px|link=[[USA]]]]</nowiki> => [[File:Flag of the United States.svg|20px|link=[[USA]]]]

, we can't link to the article. Is there a possibility to solve this problem?--[[User:WlaKom|WlaKom]] ([[User talk:WlaKom|talk]]) 23:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

:Is this because this is the wrong link...

:::<pre>[[File:Flag of the United States.svg|20px|link=United States]]</pre> ↔ [[File:Flag of the United States.svg|20px|link=United States]]

::...? [[User:QM400032|QM400032]] ([[User talk:QM400032|talk]]) 02:05, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

== semicolon issue? ==

Without discussion here, someone added a new markup restriction as a hatnote.  I took it out:

{{hatnote|Do not use a semicolon (;) simply to bold a line without defining a value using a colon (:). This usage renders invalid HTML5.}}

If this is actually a problem, why is there no discussion of it here?  What about the thousands or millions of pages that use it?  Can't we get the techies to make it make valid HTML5?  I bet they do already.  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 01:47, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

;I added that.
:Now this page fails {{W3C validation|Help talk:Wiki markup}} for "Element dl is missing a required instance of child element dd." The [http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML_lists#Description_lists HTML5 specification] states "You ''must'' pair at least one {{tag|dt}} with at least one {{tag|dd}}." In wikimarkup, this means that every ; must have a :. Using definition list markup to simply bold a line is semantically wrong. If you want to file a bug, go ahead, but currently it is a  bad practice.. --''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup> 02:31, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
::Also see discussion on this page at [[#Semi/colon]] and [[#Definition lists]]. No mention of invalid HTML there, but there have been questions of accessibility. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 02:35, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
:I can see why you think it's "bad practice", but it's not appropriate to let HTML5 spec drive wiki markup this way.  And this page files the HTML5 test in two dozen other ways, too.  The semicolon to bold a line is long established in WP.  If it's to be discouraged, let's have some discussion of that.  If it needs to be fixed, there will need to be an effort to do so, either in how wiki markup translates to HTML or in a big automated cleanup campaign.  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 03:38, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
:And please don't go changing guidelines based only on your own observations and opinions.  This  needs some discussion by others who know the long history and implications of the situation, I think. I reverted your re-changes.  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 04:26, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
::[[Appeal to tradition|Doing something for a long time doesn’t make it right.]] The semicolon creates a [[definition list]] (see the rest of [[H:DL]]). If the semicolon ''is'' intended primarily to create a subheading, then MediaWiki needs to change how it’s rendered into HTML. Until then, using {{tag|dt}} as a section heading or simple bolding creates accessibility issues, and there are less problematic ways to do so (see [[WP:TOC]]). —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 04:59, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
:::Just because there are other validation errors does not mean we should ignore the ones we have direct control over. The first few errors have bug reports. A number of the other errors are from signatures with the {{tag|font|o}} tag. Let me ask: how did you ''learn'' that the semicolon was used to bold a line? Did you read it in the documentation or did you just copy it from some other use? --''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup> 10:11, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
::::Related edits at [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style]]. Reported validation bugs listed at [[Help:Markup validation]], as is the semicolon issue. --''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup> 10:49, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

::::Excellent question!  Like most editors, I suspect, I learned wiki markup byy aping what I saw.  Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

::"You ''must'' pair at least one {{tag|dt}} with at least one {{tag|dd}}."{{spnd}}does this mean that using colons ({{tag|dd}}) without a previous semicolon ({{tag|dt}}) to indent replies to comments in talk pages is now invalid?  o.O  [[User:A. di M.|<span style="background:#00ae00;white-space:nowrap;color:black;font:600 1em 'Gentium Book Basic', serif">&mdash; A. di M.</span>]][[User:A. di M./t0|&nbsp;]] 14:13, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
:::Yes, and it’s always been semantically confusing (discussion replies are not definitions). But I think accessibility issues are more important on articles than talk pages, and colon-indenting is so endemic that there’s no point in trying to get people to stop. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 19:16, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

If Mediawiki emits bad HTML from wikicode (rather than from HTML tags being directly inserted into a message), then that is a bug that should be fixed in the software. Editors should not worry, when they use pure wikicode, about whether it will create valid HTML, and we should not encourage them to worry about it. I agree with the removal of that line about HTML5.  &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 12:04, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
::Except that’s not it—''improper use'' of wikicode generates bad HTML. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 19:24, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
:A lone semicolon line is broken markup, just like a {| without a matching |} is. There is arguably a bug in the software in that it lets such broken markup go undetected and generate invalid HTML, but that does not mean that we should encourage users to abuse it.—[[User:EmilJ|Emil]]&nbsp;[[User talk:EmilJ|J.]] 12:55, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
::{{ec}} If we are to discourage the use of the semicolon wikicode (when used with no associated colon wikicode) because it yields a {{tag|dl|content={{tag|dt}}}} which does not contain a {{tag|dd}}, we must also discourage the use of the colon wikicode (when used with no associated semicolon wikicode) because it yields a {{tag|dl|content={{tag|dd}}}} which does not contain a {{tag|dt}}. I don't think that we are going to manage such discouragement - the use of colons is too well established (such as when it's used for thread indenting, e.g. at the start of this post) for change to happen now.
::Please note that the structure enclosed by [http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/grouping-content.html#the-dl-element the DL element] is now known as an "association list", although it was formerly known as a "[http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/lists.html#edef-DL definition list]". --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 13:01, 12 April 2013 (UTC) amended [[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 16:06, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
:::OTOH, I can't think of many terribly good reasons to use a {{tag|dd}} without a {{tag|dl}} {{em|in the article namespace}}, so just because we'll never use valid HTML5 in talk pages doesn't {{em|necessarily}} mean it'd be pointless to try to use valid HTML5 at least in the encyclopaedia proper. [[User:A. di M.|<span style="background:#00ae00;white-space:nowrap;color:black;font:600 1em 'Gentium Book Basic', serif">&mdash; A. di M.</span>]][[User:A. di M./t0|&nbsp;]] 14:20, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
::::Redrose64: Yes, the use of the colon for indent does result in the markup you described. The W3C validation tool does not give an error on this use, so perhaps the tool is in error. I have never understood why the indent markup renders in this manner.
::::And to clarify: The HTML5 spec added the ''must''. This markup usage did not fail validation until we switched to HTML5 in Sptember 2012.
::::Validation is a useful tool, especially for template editors. We have been rendering HTML5 for eight months now, and still have quite a bit of invalid markup that obscures issues that editors should be able to readily resolve (duplicate anchors is always a problem in manually created references).   --''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup> 15:19, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::{{phab|6521}} - Colon (:) & semicolon (;) shouldn't output as HTML definition list when used for indentation, boldfacing   (2006-01-07)
:::::So: this isn't the first discussion on this issue, but previously the use did not result in invalid HTML. It hasn't been fixed in seven years, and I'm not going to speculate how long it will take for resolution.
:::::Therefore, my statement stands: using the semicolon like this is improper and results in invalid HTML. It also results in some oddball markup, such as when a editor desires a bold line, but includes a colon, so they then have to {{tag|nowiki|o}} the colon (real example here).
:::::But I am not on a crusade: I fix it where I see it, but otherwise I am not too worried about it. --''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup> 13:19, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

:{{reply to | Dicklyon | Gadget850 | CBM | Redrose64 | A. di M.}} Hey guys, did this issue ever get resolved?  Shall we or shall we not continue to utilize semicolons to bold a line, like a heading within a section, as is the case all over the wiki?  Thanks. — [[User:Smuckola|Smuckola]] <small>[[Special:EmailUser/Smuckola|(Email)]] [[User talk:Smuckola|(Talk)]]</small> 18:13, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
::Nothing we do here is likely to change the practice or reduce the number of pages that make this html error.  If the invalid html5 is actually an issue, we should fix it by changing how semicolon and colon translate to html, not by trying to teach our editors new wiki markup rules.  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 19:24, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
:::For one, the WikiProject Opera has incorporated the recommended use in its [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Article styles and formats]], so I wouldn't discount recommendations made here altogether. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 05:28, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::That makes a lot of sense, saying "The format with a leading semicolon is no longer recommended because of compatibility issues with screen readers."  Much better than declaring "Do not use" for something that is widely done.  It won't fix anything, but it's true that it's not recommended.  Like I said, if this is an actual problem, we should address it as such, rather than just put a "Do not use" and pretend we've done something.  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 19:48, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
::::{{reply to | Dicklyon | Michael Bednarek}} Hi guys.  I'm sorry to be a noob, but what exactly should all editors do, when they want to make a minor heading within a section, as I had described?  You guys can go about discussing or solving any problems and I thank you for that, but what should editors actually do right now?  I don't actually experience any problem from using semicolon-powered bold small headings.  Is it something that we editors can just do right now, and which can be automatically replaced and upgraded later?  I would like to have some designation for small headings, rather than just using three apostrophes and a carriage return to make it bold.  Thanks. — [[User:Smuckola|Smuckola]] <small>[[Special:EmailUser/Smuckola|(Email)]] [[User talk:Smuckola|(Talk)]]</small> 16:38, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::{{replyto|Smuckola}} [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Headings]] says "Do not make pseudo-headings using bold or semicolon markup.", it also shows how to make subsections that are consistent with the MoS. There are six levels of heading, four of which (levels 3 to 6) are suitable for use as subsection headings. More at [[MOS:HEADINGS]] and [[Help:Section]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:55, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
::::::{{replyto|Redrose64}} Ok I'll have to think about whether that'll suit practical reality though.  For example, I've never seen a References section which contains actual subsections, but I guess they could. I'd have to make a fair amount of use of the <nowiki>{{toc limit}}</nowiki> template sometimes.  So I can just try that out.  Isn't this issue going to be solved inside of Mediawiki?  And can you explain simply what exactly the problem is?  I mean who actually sees a problematic symptom actually resulting from the use of a semicolon as a header, and what is the symptom? I mean does some web browser refuse to render something in a way that a human would notice?  Thank you. — [[User:Smuckola|Smuckola]] <small>[[Special:EmailUser/Smuckola|(Email)]] [[User talk:Smuckola|(Talk)]]</small> 01:33, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::::{{replyto|Smuckola}} For a References section which contains actual subsections, you need look no further than [[Great North of Scotland Railway]], which is currently on the main page as [[WP:TFA]].
:::::::If you follow the link that I gave to [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Headings]], it says "Do not make pseudo-headings using bold or semicolon markup.", which I quoted above; if [[MOS:ACCESS]] advises against a practice, there will be very good reasons for that advice being included on that page, and we find that this is immediately followed by "Screen readers and other machines can only use correctly formatted headings." It is important to remember that not all web browsers yield visible output; there are various types of [[screen reader]] where the different elements are described in various ways. People like {{user|Graham87}} or {{user|RexxS}} can indicate what these problems are in more precise ways than myself. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 11:59, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
::::::::Indeed. Adding a semicolon to the start of a line makes it read like this with [[JAWS (screen reader)|JAWS]], the most popular screen reader: "definition list of 1 items, <text>, list end", which is kinda annoying. '''[[User:Graham87|Graham]]'''[[User talk:Graham87|<span style="color:green;">87</span>]] 14:31, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
::::::::: Graham hits the nail on the head. Every visitor who comes to Wikipedia using a screen reader is faced with numerous problems (lack of captions on tables, missing alt text on images, information conveyed only by colour, etc.) and we should be striving to make their experience as pleasant as possible. Even things that are "kinda annoying" to Graham need to be addressed, because I know he is a most extraordinarily tolerant user, and screen reader users with less experience of Wikipedia can be put off by repeated nonsense like empty definition lists.
::::::::: For what it's worth, if you want to make a heading, then why not use the wikimarkup for headings? The {{tl|toc limit}} can sometimes be used to suppress unwanted subheadings, but even when it can't, is the TOC in [[Great North of Scotland Railway]] so terrible because it contains links to the subsections of the "Notes and References" section? If you can't stand even that and you must have bold 'pseudo-headings' as a visual presentation, then at least use wikimarkup for bold (<code><nowiki>'''Subheading'''</nowiki></code>) because that can be skipped by many screen readers. --[[User:RexxS|RexxS]] ([[User talk:RexxS|talk]]) 15:28, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::The matter of using semicolons as pseudo-headings has just come up at [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Layout#Headings]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 15:40, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

===Idea: use a different element for colon markup===
We seem to agree that when semicolon markup is used together with colon markup, that produces a valid [http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/grouping-content.html#the-dl-element association list]; and when one is used in isolation from the other, that is invalid. How about somehow persuading the MediaWiki devs to add a feature that identifies where colon markup is used without any preceding semicolon markup, and then uses a completely different method of showing a sequential indent level, one that does not use an association list. I can demonstrate what I mean using [http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/grouping-content.html#the-div-element the DIV element] and a small amount of CSS:
<pre>
First post
<div style="margin-left:1em;">First reply
<div style="margin-left:1em;">Second reply
<div style="margin-left:1em;">Third reply
</div></div></div>
</pre>
First post
<div style="margin-left:1em;">First reply
<div style="margin-left:1em;">Second reply
<div style="margin-left:1em;">Third reply
</div></div></div>
We would set up a class, possibly in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], to hold the <code>margin-left:1em;</code> together with any other styling that might be necessary. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:56, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

<div style="margin-left:1.6em;">Wouldn’t each <code>:</code> translate to one {{tag|div}}? So wouldn’t it have to be more like:
<pre>First post
<div style="margin-left:1em;">First reply</div>
<div style="margin-left:1em;"><div style="margin-left:1em;">Second reply</div></div>
<div style="margin-left:1em;"><div style="margin-left:1em;"><div style="margin-left:1em;">Third reply</div></div></div>
</pre>
<div style="margin:0;">First post</div><!-- div added for aesthetics -->
<div style="margin-left:1em;">First reply</div>
<div style="margin-left:1em;"><div style="margin-left:1em;">Second reply</div></div>
<div style="margin-left:1em;"><div style="margin-left:1em;"><div style="margin-left:1em;">Third reply</div></div></div>

—[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 20:15, 12 April 2013 (UTC)</div>
:The problem here is that by closing all open DIV elements, and then opening a fresh set, it means that any one reply is not directly associated with the post(s) above. It's something akin to a colon-indented thread that doesn't observe [[WP:LISTGAP]]. Consider first a direct equivalent to my example above, using colon markup:
<pre>
First post
:First reply
::Second reply
:::Third reply
</pre>
:This yields HTML as follows:
<pre>
<p>First post</p>
<dl>
<dd>First reply
<dl>
<dd>Second reply
<dl>
<dd>Third reply</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
</pre>
:Notice how each successive {{tag|dl|content={{tag|dd}}}} construct is nested inside the one "above" it. But when we add blank lines, to create a direct equivalent to your example above (again using colon markup):
<pre>
First post

:First reply

::Second reply

:::Third reply
</pre>
:we get HTML as follows:
<pre>
<p>First post</p>
<dl>
<dd>First reply</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dd>
<dl>
<dd>Second reply</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dd>
<dl>
<dd>
<dl>
<dd>Third reply</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
</pre>
:it's no longer three nested lists, but three separate lists. I imagine that closing and reopening DIV elements would produce similar accessibility problems.
:Since the MediaWiki parser knows not to close the DD/DL elements until there is nothing outstanding, I expect it can do the same for nested DIVs. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 23:28, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
::I actually hadn’t realized colons worked that way. Hm… so then, we should never put a blank line between a comment and our replies, because that messes with the translation. Or maybe we need wikimarkup and HTML/CSS specific to Talk pages. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 23:53, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
:::{{phab|6521}} - Colon (:) & semicolon (;) shouldn't output as HTML definition list when used for indentation, boldfacing   (2006-01-07) --''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]</sup> 01:00, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
:::Aka <s>[[mw:Extension:LiquidThreads]]</s> [[mw:Flow]]. [[User talk:Helder.wiki|Helder]] 12:15, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

== Broken Link ==

{{edit semi-protected|Help:Wiki markup|answered=yes}}
Please update a broken link from https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi/blob/master/SyntaxHighlight.lexers.php to https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi/blob/master/SyntaxHighlight.lexers.php.

Thanks,
Milena [[User:Jonkiszm|Jonkiszm]] ([[User talk:Jonkiszm|talk]]) 10:38, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

:You posted the same working link twice but I guessed you meant the broken link https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi/blob/master/SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi.lexers.php. I have fixed it.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Wiki_markup&diff=781816898&oldid=780660250] [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:42, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

== Infobox ==

How do I add the infobox to my page? [[User:Kimjin Young|Kimjin Young]] ([[User talk:Kimjin Young|talk]]) 01:01, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|Kimjin Young}} Parameters are separated by pipes ([[vertical bar]]) and not letters. Template calls end with <code><nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>. I fixed the infobox syntax [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Bae_Jin_Young&diff=809084790&oldid=809079153] but there are many other problems. See [[Template:Infobox person]] for allowed parameters. This talk page is for discussing improvements to the help page [[Help:Wikitext]]. You can for example ask for editing help at [[Wikipedia:Teahouse]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:25, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

== what does this mean? ==

I was wondering what does the following tag does? 
<nowiki><nowiki/></nowiki>
Thank you, 
[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] ([[User talk:Bud0011|talk]]) 16:41, 17 October 2010 (UTC).

:See [[Help:Wiki markup#Limiting formatting/escaping wiki markup]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:48, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

:An empty nowiki tag (ending with a slash) probably wouldn’t do anything… does it even have any effect? Unless it was a typo, that is, in which case, PrimeHunter is right. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 17:08, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

:: <code>&#60;nowiki/&#62;</code> can be used to prevent certain characters from having a special effect at the beginning of a line (such as an asterisk, hash, colon, semicolon or equals sign, which are usually interpreted as wikimarkup at the beginning of a line) or, less commonly, from having a special effect by being adjacent (such as pairs of braces, tildes or square brackets, and wikitable markup). — [[User:Richardguk|Richardguk]] ([[User talk:Richardguk|talk]]) 04:40, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Ah, so it’s a [[NOP]] that interrupts wikitext. —[[User:Frungi|Frungi]] ([[User talk:Frungi|talk]]) 05:05, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

This is so amazing [[User:Aidan.kinsey|Aidan.kinsey]] ([[User talk:Aidan.kinsey|talk]]) 20:54, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

== Image examples and explanations ==

[[File:We Can Do It! (3678696585).jpg|thumb|Rosie the Riveter]]
Thinking of the training session I am preparing for where I will be talking to folk who learning to speak English as a second language I have scanned through the page- and I find the images section badly targetted. There is one syntax that we see used in most images '''<nowiki>[[File:We Can Do It! (3678696585).jpg|thumb|Rosie the Riveter]]</nowiki>.''' This needs to head the list before we start to add bells and whistles. It is plain and simply wrong to use '''|thumb''' to force the default placement to the right. Even '''|right''' is redundant in thumbs

We are here to explain not to evangelise- so make the difference obvious. We are here to help, not to display our own skills. I will no doubt step on a toes- but lets see if I can improve it. Otherwise [[WP:BRD]] --[[User:ClemRutter|ClemRutter]] ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]]) 21:34, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

:I have made a heap of additions and changes- but nothing has been culled. Please go in and ce. [[User:ClemRutter|ClemRutter]] ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]]) 00:42, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

== Recent move of this page to "Wikitext" ==

This page has recently been moved from "Help:Wiki markup" to "Help:Wikitext" due to the fact that a Google search yielded 3.5 million hits for Wikitext, only 320,000 hits for "Wiki markup".

[[User:Scottperry|Scott P.]] ([[User talk:Scottperry|talk]]) 14:32, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

ok thanks [[User:Lismend2004|Lismend2004]] ([[User talk:Lismend2004|talk]]) 17:03, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

==Creating an external link that is variable based on a parameter==
Can anyone tell me if there is a way to create a template that generates an external link and places a parameter to the template's transclusion into the URL?  It appears to me to be impossible.  For instance, a template called Test with content <nowiki>"[http:/foo.com/{{{1}}}.html test]" generates "[http://foo.com/%7B%7B%7B1%7D%7D%7D.html test]" when invoked as {{Test|index}}.</nowiki>  I suppose it has to do with parsing order of "[" and template processing.  But I'm hoping there is a workaround. [[User:DulcetTone|DulcetTone]] ([[User talk:DulcetTone|talk]]) 12:01, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{Re|DulcetTone}} I'm not seeing that at [[User:John of Reading/X2]] and [[User:John of Reading/X3]]. The parameter "index" is correctly built into the URL. -- [[User:John of Reading|John of Reading]] ([[User talk:John of Reading|talk]]) 12:34, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
::{{Re|DulcetTone}} Your code is correct except http:/ needs an extra slash http:// which appears in the alleged result so your example is false. I didn't see any attempt to make this code in your recent edits. I will go out on a limb and guess you also falsified "index" in the example and your real example had a string with an equals sign. In that case you can invoke it with <nowiki>{{Test|1=index}}</nowiki> to avoid the equals sign being interpreted as a parameter assignment. See the first bullet at [[Help:Template#Usage hints and workarounds]]. Please always make, copy-paste or link real examples when you report problems. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 14:12, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
:::You are correct that I was typing the above longhand, which explains the poor syntax you see (sorry).  After some further testing, I see the issue is one I did not capture in my hand-typed example.  The template X2 given above, as well as mine, breaks ONLY when you have the template also wrapping its output in <nowiki><ref> and </ref></nowiki> Try editing X2 to be: '''<nowiki><ref>[http://example/com/{{{1}}}.html test]</ref></nowiki>''' and it will fail (at least on my MediaWiki 1.24.2 [[User:DulcetTone|DulcetTone]] ([[User talk:DulcetTone|talk]]) 13:24, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
::::{{Re|DulcetTone}} Thanks for posting a mostly correct example. It should say example.com and not example/com to produce a valid link. The <code><nowiki>{{#tag:ref}}</nowiki></code> trick at [[Help:Template#Handling parameters]] works in Wikipedia: <code><nowiki>{{#tag:ref|[http://example.com/{{{1}}}.html test]}}</nowiki></code>. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 14:23, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
:::: Thanks so much for this, PrimeHunter.  Solves the thing that was killing me.  [[User:DulcetTone|DulcetTone]] ([[User talk:DulcetTone|talk]]) 22:34, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

== Note changes to whitespace behavior (documented at [[mw:Specs/wikitext/1.0.0]]) ==

Please update the help files or add a link to that change as appropriate. [[User:SSastry (WMF)|SSastry (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SSastry (WMF)|talk]]) 16:04, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

== Blockquote or preformatted block ==

A sequence of lines, each beginning with the blank character, produces a blockquote or preformatted block.  No mention in the sections on block quoting or preformat, that I see. Is that intentional?  

Also, a tab at the beginning of a line is omitted.  A tab following a blank at the beginning of a line is respected.  Is that intentional?  Why not respect the tab in both cases? 

Thanks, ... [[User:PeterEasthope|PeterEasthope]] ([[User talk:PeterEasthope|talk]]) 14:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
:Tabs have no special meaning in MediaWiki syntax; unlike spaces and newlines, they are passed through unchanged. The behaviour of tabs is browser dependent - in most cases, they are treated exactly as for unprocessed spaces and newlines. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 16:02, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

== Section-Text formatting ==

I know what is wrong here- I know what I want to do - and it needs to be done -but 
* How?
* Where on this page do I find an section to explain that coding?
The problem:
:''To reverse this effect where it has been automatically applied, use {{tl|nobold}} and {{tl|noitalic}}.'' 
has been added to the third column on the table, after the rendering for small caps. It should be in the description in the first column but aligned to the bottom the <code><nowiki><td></td></nowiki></code>

--[[User:ClemRutter|ClemRutter]] ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]]) 09:33, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
:You refer to [[Help:Wikitext#Text formatting]]. I disagree. The description column is for goals, not solutions. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:00, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
::I'd like to agree, but look at the rows below. There is no consistency. The text here is a footnote, not markup or the rendering. It is in the wrong place being separated from the sentence to which it refers- so the choice is move it somewhere or delete it. No action is not an option. What is suggested? 

::Furthermore, why is small caps put on this row, but small text has a row of its own, where is the description of strikeout <code><nowiki><s></s></nowiki></code> which is commonly used on talk pages. <s>Hello</s> (The code <code><nowiki><del></del></nowiki></code>  is shown below in thematic section on Talk pages. 

::Then we have the question of colour- after the c ++ code example that turns on the css lang syntax highlighter- it seem to remain on, syntax highlighting the html tags. This is a basic page- this shouldn't be done until it has been explained.
::[[User:ClemRutter|ClemRutter]] ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]]) 20:41, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

== This Wiki Markup Edition is a Step Backwards ==

This new edition of Wikitext is certainly a step backwards. I understand that a lot of programmers edit Wikipedia and this change concurs with their mentality, but not everyone on Wikipedia is a programmer or has been a programmer in a past lifetime... This new Wikitext editing tool will certainly limit those who can contribute, tilting Wikipedia further in the direction of those with greater technical savvy but intellectually uneducated contributors (which was already a problem)... Absolutely, ingenious... While there are good features that were added, the ease of making a basic edit was abrogated and this cumbersome creature put in its place... Why wasn't the option to load the old menu, as an alternative tool, left in place? I guarantee that this new Wiki Markup edition will significantly reduce the number of references that are added to articles because of its cumbersomeness. The very point of creating or modifying a Wiki Markup version is to make editing, not only more complete, but more accessible to a wider range of contributors, is it not? [[User:Stevenmitchell|Stevenmitchell]] ([[User talk:Stevenmitchell|talk]]) 20:27, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
:{{ping|Stevenmitchell}} What are you referring to? Many features can change editing in different ways and I'm not aware of any relevant recent software changes. If you describe the difference you see between now and before then maybe I can tell how to get what you had before. Also try editing logged out and say whether it reminds more of now or before. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 23:46, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
:: What I was referring to was an earlier option to be able to access the previous version of the Wikitext editor (I believe we had that option until recently). Specifically, what I was trying to do was add a URL as a reference using the (icon) tool from the previous version of the Wikitext editor, which apparently is no longer available. There needs to be an easy way to add a URL and its reference (there used to be the globe icon, I think)... As such I don't see any relatively easy way to add references at all... Regards... Steve [[User:Stevenmitchell|Stevenmitchell]] ([[User talk:Stevenmitchell|talk]]) 00:36, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Stevenmitchell}} It sounds like you want a 2006 toolbar which was removed from [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing]] in October. It was discussed at [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 171#Support ends for the 2006 wikitext editor]]. Try this at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]]: ''Enable the legacy (2006) editing toolbar. This will be overridden by the "Enable the editing toolbar" option in the Editing tab.'' I don't know whether any other wikis have this gadget. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 10:44, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
:::: Thanks very much for your help. Yes, that will solve my immediate problem, but shouldn't the new Wikitext tools/toolkit provide an easy URL add feature as did the older toolset? I think, we need to encourage more editing people to add references, not less... Steve [[User:Stevenmitchell|Stevenmitchell]] ([[User talk:Stevenmitchell|talk]]) 14:52, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
:::::The current toolbar is from 2010 and can add an external link on the chain icon. It also has a "Cite" button to add a citation template without knowing the parameters or syntax. The toolbar is enabled by default but can be disabled at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 17:50, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Stevenmitchell}} For future ref, this is not a page intended for people to ask for help; it is the [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] for discussing improvements to the page [[:Help:Wikitext]] - your question should have been a matter for the [[WP:HD|help desk]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:41, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
:: Redrose64, if you would read the whole conversation, I came here for a discussion of why an earlier feature was eliminated from the current Wiki Markup Edition and the discussion that ensued offered me help to circumvent the missing feature problem from the current version of Wikitext Editor. The suggestion that was provided resolved my current dilemma (as you have noticed), however, the specific issues with the Wikitext Editor, have not been addressed (other than possible Help Features being debated below). The past specific feature I queried about has apparently been eliminated from the current Wikitext toolset altogether. It is still an issue, and will remain one... It will also delimit those editors that can (or want to) contribute adding references to Wikipedia by narrowing contributions, to a special class of users that are comfortable using the cumbersome Wikitext cite feature... [[User:Stevenmitchell|Stevenmitchell]] ([[User talk:Stevenmitchell|talk]]) 22:06, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
:::There has been no change to the way that Wikitext works. Characters such as <code><nowiki>{{...}}</nowiki></code> still work in exactly the way that they have done for the last fifteen years. There have been some changes to the ''interface'', which provides (or formerly provided) tools with which Wikitext may be manipulated. The interface is outside the scope of this page. For assistance in using the interface, the appropriate venue is [[WP:HD]]; for reporting problems with the interface, many people use [[WP:VPT]] as a first port of call (see for instance [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 171#Support ends for the 2006 wikitext editor]]), sometimes escalating it to [[phab:]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 23:13, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

==Does Wiki syntax have a tabulation character?==
Please see this session:<br>
[[Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Computing#MediaWiki_wraps_all_space-indented_nested_content_in_%3Cpre%3E_HTML_tags|MediaWiki wraps all space-indented nested content in <nowiki><pre></nowiki> HTML tags]].

Thanks, [[Special:Contributions/182.232.21.241|182.232.21.241]] ([[User talk:182.232.21.241|talk]]) 17:38, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

== Curly bracket small-text tag broken, or deprecated? ==

Last time I saw anything about including small text on a page, the recommendation was to use <nowiki>{{small|blah blah}}</nowiki> instead of <nowiki><small>blah blah</small></nowiki>, because that produced a more consistent result across browsers (essentially, it produced a font-size span at 85%, which otherwise wasn't guaranteed). And that seems to have been what's largely been taken up on various pages I've edited recently.

However, I see no mention of curly bracket version on the wikitext help page now, and the tag seems to be broken for new edits; that is, an existing tag still works just fine, but if I write a new one, ''or if I edit an existing one '''in any way''''' (e.g. change one letter... even if you then commit a second change returning it to how it was before), it breaks. All that displays in the rendered version of the article is a mysterious <small><nowiki>{{{1}}}</nowiki></small>, still at the smaller size, but not showing any of the intended contents.

What's going on here? Is there some problem with the tag (or maybe it's just not needed now that browsers inherently render more consistently?) that means it's been deprecated? Is it just a sudden bug that I'm the first to notice and report?

(Let me just try an example to see if it's suddenly working again. <small>This is text inside a plain HTML <nowiki><small></nowiki> tag</small> ... {{small|This is text inside a curly-bracket <nowiki>{{small}}</nowiki> tag}} ...)[[Special:Contributions/146.199.60.87|146.199.60.87]] ([[User talk:146.199.60.87|talk]]) 00:15, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

: Son of a bitch ... why wasn't it working up until now, then? I was leaving a trail of wrecked pages and hastily converted <nowiki>{{small}} -> <small></nowiki> tags in my wake. [[Special:Contributions/146.199.60.87|146.199.60.87]] ([[User talk:146.199.60.87|talk]]) 00:16, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
::Please provide examples - links to pages where you are having difficulty, or (better still) diffs of the edits. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 17:04, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
::Maybe your secret code has an equals sign. [[Template:Small#Usage]] says: "Note that if the <code>=</code> character appears in the content, the parameter must be explicitly specified as {{para|1}}." This applies to all templates with unnamed parameters. Always reveal the broken code or page when you report an issue. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 21:15, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

== Conditional formatting based on mobile vs desktop ==

To whom it may concern,

I am new to wikimedia, but am trying to edit our project page @ [[meta:Wikimedia_CH/Project/European_Water_Project]]

I was wondering if instead of using a wikitable, I could use  standard html markup language < ul >  < li > tags and toggle display="inline" and display="block" to make the instructions more visually pleasing on a mobile phone.  If possible, where on the wiki page does one define styles for classes ? 

Also, how can one determine if the display is in mobile or desktop mode and does anyone know what needs to be written to toggle the style class ?

Thank you very much for your advice,

Stuart [[User:S2rapoport|S2rapoport]] ([[User talk:S2rapoport|talk]]) 05:44, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
:You seem to have a number of things confused here. First, this is not a help desk, it is the [[Help:Talk pages|talk page]] for discussing improvements to the page [[:Help:Wikitext]]. But I'll clear up some of this, anything that I have missed is probably better asked either at [[WP:HD]] or [[WP:VPT]].
:The tags {{tag|ul}} and {{tag|li|o}}, whilst valid in Wikitext, do not create tables but [//www.w3.org/TR/html51/grouping-content.html#the-ul-element lists] - the {{tag|table}}, {{tag|tr|o}}, {{tag|th|o}} and {{tag|td|o}} tags may be used to create [//www.w3.org/TR/html51/tabular-data.html#tabular-data tables].
:The attributes <code>display="inline"</code> and <code>display="block"</code> are not valid, perhaps you are thinking of the declarations [//www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#display-prop <code>display:inline;</code> and <code>display:block;</code>], which are placed either in a <code>style="..."</code> attribute, or in a style sheet.
:To the question "where on the wiki page does one define styles for classes" - this is [[Wikipedia:TemplateStyles]].
:Your phrase "toggle the style class ?" is meaningless, there is no such thing as a style class. There are styles, and there are classes. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 16:31, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer. I will ask the questions on the appropriate page ... my goal is to have the page display well on both a wide screen desktop and a narrow screen mobile phone. [[User:S2rapoport|S2rapoport]] ([[User talk:S2rapoport|talk]]) 18:14, 9 December 2019 (UTC)