Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Devdutta Manisha Baji

Devdutta Manisha Baji

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Fails WP:NMUSICIAN. I removed a ton of unsourced content but even what is left is just mentions and a lot of those are WP:NEWSORGINDIA. CNMall41 (talk) 16:48, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, and India. CNMall41 (talk) 16:48, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @CNMall41,
Firstly, thank you for reviewing the page. Every notice is a new learning experience for me, and I have carefully gone through your comments.
- Please forgive me if I have not used the correct Wikipedia technical terms. I usually use generic terminology to convey points, though I do try to follow Wikipedia guidelines as best as I can.
Regarding the Devdutta article: I won't claim he is notable without basis, and though I wrote the article, I’m not approaching it with bias. I would like to present a logical, reference-based defense for my work. Beyond that, you all are the experts, and I trust your decision.

Let me address the points one by one:

1. WP:NEWSORGINDIA

Since I don’t know the subject personally, I cannot confirm whether he or his production houses paid for the articles referenced. I used sources that I found available online. Therefore, I have no comment on their promotional nature. If you have any suggestions or tools to help identify whether a link is paid/promotional, that would be really helpful for my future articles.

2. Removal of Unsourced Data

Yes, he is also a singer. I found his name listed on the music apps I use, and also in Wikipedia film tables where he is credited for singing. However, I remember a previous admin mentioning that a Wikipedia article cannot be used as a reference for another Wikipedia article. So, I didn’t cite them. And since platforms like Spotify or JioSaavn are not accepted as references, I couldn’t use those either. Thank you for cleaning up the unsourced information. It would be great if you could guide me on how to properly cite chartbusters or music credits.

----

Defense Based on WP:NMUSICIAN

I’ve reviewed the WP:NMUSICIAN guidelines, and I believe the subject meets the criteria for notability for the following reasons:

a) WP:MUSICIAN - Point 2

This mentions having a single or album on a national chart. His song “Raja Ala” from Pawankhind was a chartbuster. I’m slightly confused because, in India, songs are mostly part of film soundtracks, unlike in Hollywood where albums and movies are more separate. Still, this subject has composed music for high-budget Marathi films, and several of his songs have been popular.

b) WP:MUSICIAN - Point 3

This point seems a bit biased, as it references RIAA certification and Yahoo Music ratings. Indian music directors typically aren't evaluated through such systems. How, then, can Indian subjects qualify under this criterion?

c) WP:MUSICIAN - Point 4

Again, this seems tilted toward Western norms. Indian music directors primarily work in film, and their recognition usually comes through movie soundtracks, not necessarily through concerts. Concerts are secondary.

d) WP:MUSICIAN - Point 5

I believe the subject qualifies here. His music albums have been released under Zee Music, a reputed label with over 10 years in the industry. Zee itself is a well-established brand.

e) WP:MUSICIAN - Awards (e.g., Grammy, Academy)

This also feels biased, as these awards are region-specific. In India, we have our own recognized awards like Filmfare and state-level honors such as Nandi Awards. The subject has received several regional awards and was also nominated for Filmfare Marathi, which I’ve mentioned in the article. Therefore, I believe he satisfies this condition too.

Finally, I’d like to share that I’m just a movie buff. With the rise of OTT platforms, language barriers have started to fade, and I’ve found myself exploring cinema beyond my native language. I initially began writing about Telugu movies, but then I found inspiration in my mentor and brother @Jayanthkumar123, who was actively contributing articles for Telugu cinema. Later, I saw @DareshMohan bro contributing valuable content for Kannada films.

That’s when I realized there’s a real need to work on communities like Marathi, Odia, Punjabi, and Bengaliwhere even native-language contributors are very few. I wanted to help bridge that gap and bring more visibility to regional cinema and artists who truly deserve recognition.

Regarding the issue of paid articles: it’s evident that well-established personalities or large production houses can easily pay to get featured in newspapers and portals—eventually leading to the creation of a Wikipedia article even before the film’s release.

On the other hand, subjects who lack financial resources and media exposure often have their pages deleted for “lack of citations.” This feels like an unfortunate imbalance, and I hope we can find fairer ways to address it.

My final input regarding this article is that the subject is notable. He has composed quality music and has several popular songs that have performed well on music apps within the Marathi industry. He is regarded as one of the top music directors in that space.

My suggestion would be to remove any unsourced content and improve the article in alignment with Wikipedia guidelines. Beyond that, I leave the final decision to the experienced editors—admins, rollbackers @Ab207, and others in the community hierarchy.

Thank you for this opportunity to learn and grow. Every review is a valuable learning experience for me. - Herodyswaroop (talk) 18:35, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
>His song “Raja Ala” from Pawankhind was a chartbuster

Please give reliable sources for this statement, as it helps to prove notability. Review [[WP:CHARTS]. "Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart" is part of WP:NMUSICBIO — Itzcuauhtli11 (talk) 14:58, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Maharashtra-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:51, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: No notability as singer or musician. As a soundtrack composer, his films doesn't seem notable and sources are unclear. — Itzcuauhtli11 (talk) 15:01, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Itzcuauhtli11

Respecting your opinion and also defending mine — I was a bit shocked by the second statement:

"His films don't seem notable."
Sir, I’m sharing with you Wikipedia's own lists — List of highest-grossing Marathi films. I am neither an editor nor do I know anyone associated with editing that page. The data is clearly visible there.
- Pawankhind – This is the 3rd highest-grossing film ever in the Marathi industry. It also appears under the highest-grossing opening weekend list.
- Subhedar – It is listed under worldwide highest-grossing films by month.
- Firastya – This film won multiple awards, including recognition in Sweden and Pune.
So, we can conclude from Wikipedia itself that two of his films were among the highest grossers in the Marathi film industry.

Coming to the song "Raja Ala":
I searched under WP:Charts, but unfortunately couldn’t find any official music chart specifically for India. However, I’m sharing a few links which I believe may help:
1. https://www.jiosaavn.com/featured/chartbusters-2022-marathi/CAvDksWm1rKvz,QNANKgeg__ "Raja Ala" is listed in the Top 3.
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMgVnhNpcFc 55 million views on YouTube.
3. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/marathi/movies/news/pawankhind-new-song-raja-aala-this-foot-tapping-number-featuring-santosh-juvekar-and-chinmay-mandlekar-is-definitely-a-chartbuster/articleshow/89432249.cms Again, you may argue this is paid media — but I’m sharing it for reference.
  I hope I have answered your queries. - Herodyswaroop (talk) 17:36, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Herodyswaroop:, please stop with the AI-generated WP:WALLOFTEXT information you keep posting. It is not helpful, especially since these are not policy-based arguments and the sources you are providing are not reliable. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:45, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@CNMall41 Sorry sir, As my English is bit bad, I am using grammarly to correct the sentence. I would avoid that.

But I am actually going through each and every point in the Wikipedia guidelines and answering them, with utmost care. You asked for chartbuster I have provided the same. You asked for films notability, I have given the same.

Again bit surprising. if List of highest-grossing Marathi films this itself isn't reliable source, then which is ? - Herodyswaroop (talk) 17:53, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Itzcuauhtli11

Wikipedia: Notability (music)

"The recording was performed in a medium that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc."

Response: I have mentioned notable films where the recordings were featured.

You did not comment on the following criterion: "Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable)."

Response: Zee5 Music is a notable music company with over 10 years of establishment and a significant presence in the industry.

Please guide me if I am not adhering to the Wikipedia guidelines. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

- Herodyswaroop (talk) 17:49, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You are still using AI to generate responses. Again, please stop. You have made your case for notability and now need to leave others to opine. Posting AI generated walls of text do NOT help your case. Also, note WP:CIR, WP:COI and WP:PAID. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:00, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@CNMall41 Small correction, Not AI generated content, you can say AI Grammer corrected content, It took one hour to go through each point and get them done.

Wp: paid, Wp:COI, If I really get money in defending this subject, I would really be happy. Joking - Herodyswaroop (talk) 18:11, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You claim you need an hour to generate the responses yet your edits are done quick on pages with very good competency. This is not my first rodeo. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:33, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for not properly betting all of the subject's movies as notable or not.

About the 3 movies you mentioned: Firastya didn't earn major awards and Subhedar only earned ₹18 crore worldwide, which may be notable enough on a regional level, but not on a national or international ones.

Pawankhind may be notable enough on a national or international level, but I'm still not sure. That could probe notability, but it doesn't mean he deserves an article. He also needs significant coverage on independent, reliable sources.

As a singer or musician, he doesn't meet WP:NMUSIC.

As a composer, he doesn't meet any of the criteria for WP:COMPOSER.

About Zee5 Music: What's its "roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable"? — Itzcuauhtli11 (talk) 18:35, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Itzcuauhtli11 @CNMall41 Sir, I am in a big confusion now. If i reply. @CNMall41 accuse me of paid editing. if I don't reply, I am getting lot of confusion. Taking the bet.

Sir, Marathi films are regional films and obviously,they will be highest grossers in same na sir?. How can we expect it should be highest grosser in international level.

Like Sairat movie the top-1 in marathi list, is blockbuster in Marathi,but the same is flop in telugu. And definitely not a international hit. But still it's a top movie for marathi people right?

If that is the case 98% all regional film articles would get rejected in Wiki. Because any country Or region may give a massive hit globally once Or twice.

2. Again,you claimed no awards for Firatsya. But ref clearly shows that,then why the claim of no awards.

Finally respecting @CNMall41sir advice,not dragging the context. It would be great help if sir itself goes through Zee5 label list of independently notable, as the list may go long.

- Herodyswaroop (talk) 20:08, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]