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Foreign lang template to throw after a foreign-language reference? (references without citation templates)

Back in ye olde days of Wikipedia, there used to be an unobtrusive template like lang|en lang|fr lang|ru that would just put a smaller font (Ru) or (Fr) after a footnote reference that's in a foreign language, and automatically added the article to some hidden category for such works. I know {{in lang}} exists now, but it's bulky and plain-text and doesn't appear to have any real benefit that isn't to be had by simply writing "In Russian" myself. Any help finding something smaller? I'm working on an article that is almost entirely non-English sources and I'd rather not put "In German", "In French" after each citation. HaltlosePersonalityDisorder (talk) 03:15, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

There's {{lang}} and {{lang-x}} that might help, but I'm not sure they are exactly what you're after. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:30, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

If you’re using the CS1/2 citation templates, there’s a |language= parameter you can use that takes the ISO 639 code; is that what you’re looking for? Umimmak (talk) 16:00, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

In the CS1/2 citation templates, there are also parameters like |script-title= which can be prepended with an ISO language code for non-Latin languages, as in |script-title=zh-Hant:瘋狂亞洲富豪. Furthermore, if there's a Wikipedia article you want to link to where the article in another language is the only one that exists or is more complete than the English Wikipedia article, I use {{ill}}; so for example for the Chinese-language Hong Kong newspaper Ta Kung Pao the Chinese article is more extensive in discussing nuances of its coverage and biases so in citations I fill in |publisher={{ill|Ta Kung Pao|zh|大公報|preserve=1}} which produces "Ta Kung Pao".

Finally, for parameters like |authorlink= you can fill in a link to a language on a different wiki, you just have to begin it with a colon: for example |authorlink=:id:Daniel Rudi Haryanto for Daniel Rudi Haryanto, an Indonesian documentary film maker who despite winning international awards currently only has an article on Wikipedia bahasa Indonesia and not English Wikipedia.

p.s. a benefit of using an appropriate language template or parameter that may not be visible in your own browser is that the HTML code is marked up to indicate the language being rendered, which may help other peoples' browsers or screen readers show it properly. --▸₷truthious Ⓑandersnatch◂ 17:16, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Umm, no. Do you not see the at the top of the {{ill}} documentation? What your example really produces (as far as the cs1|2 templates are concerned) is this:

{{ill|Ta Kung Pao|zh|大公報|preserve=1}} → [[Ta Kung Pao]]<span class="noprint" style="font-size:85%; font-style: normal; ">&nbsp;&#91;[[:zh:大公報|zh]]&#93;</span>

All of that ends up in the citation's metadata which should only hold (for your example) the publisher's name; no html markup, no wiki markup, just the name.

{{ill}} may be the template that the OP was thinking about. That, in my opinion is a badly thought out design. We as editors may know what ru, or es, or kl, or sq mean, but it is doubtful that readers know. We are here for the readers and there is no limit on space; use {{in lang}} so that you can use the IETF language tags and so that readers know what you mean without having to decode the tag.

{{in lang|ru|es|kl|sq}} → (in Russian, Spanish, Greenlandic, and Albanian)

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:41, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

"We as editors may know what ru, or es, or kl, or sq mean, but it is doubtful that readers know" – agreed, that's why there is {{Interlanguage link info}} to explain it. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 19:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Citing a section of a web page?

Transmission of COVID-19 cites https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html in multiple places. The problem is, the page is hard to navigate, with the collapsed sections. At least in Chrome, if you search on a page for a word in a collapsed section, it won't be found. So, is there some way, analogous to {{rp}}, to cite a specific section on a web page? -- RoySmith (talk) 02:02, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

@RoySmith:, if you use shortened footnotes ({{sfn}}), you can use |loc= instead of |p=. If you are using {{cite web}}, you can use |at= instead of |p=. And if you're hand-rolling the citation, you can use plain text. In any of those cases, I'd just put the closest header title above the section of interest. Naturally, if it's an anchor, then include the fragment in the link. Mathglot (talk) 11:35, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Here's an example:

Can wild animals spread the virus?

Note that in this example, the term '§wild animals' in the short footnote is a direct link to the FAQ question. Hope this helps. Mathglot (talk) 11:48, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Works cited

• "Coronavirus (COVID-19) frequently asked questions | CDC". CDC. 18 September 2020.

References

Citing documents in proprietary formats

Is it permissible to cite a document in a proprietary format, and what is the proper way to do so? The case that I am thinking of is in IBM BookManager format. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 09:14, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Whether the format is proprietary is somewhat irrelevant, though it does decrease the likelihood that someone can read it (consider that MS Word file formats were proprietary for some time). What does matter is whether the document in question was published in a place where it can be accessed by company-outsiders. In a citation template, file formats can be specified in the badly named |format=, but only if you have a URL to go with it (it should be something like |url-file-format=). --Izno (talk) 12:10, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Do you mean something like this? |url-file-format= isn't valid. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 20:17, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

User:Chatul, your citation seems fine if you just omit the url-file-format parameter. I take Izno's comment to mean that |format= won't work if there is no URL, and that Izno doesn't think "format" is a wise name for the parameter; Izno thinks it would have been wiser to name it "url-file-format". Jc3s5h (talk) 20:58, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Indeed. --Izno (talk) 21:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Totally acceptable, as long as someone independent of the creator(s) of the file format can read the document in question in one way or another. Glades12 (talk) 09:44, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

References

RfC: Whether YouTube is a reliable source

YouTube allows uploading anything, and some possibility on one supporting oneself is here. -- PythonSwarm ^{Talk | Contribs | Global} 23:33, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial sources#YouTube. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:07, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Youtube in a sense isn't really publisher itself but a distribution system or media "format". Hence the question whether it is a reliable source or not doesn't make much sense and is a bit like asking, whether a book, video cassette pr website is a reliable source. Instead you need to look athe publisher/author of an individual video (being available on Youtube). Now if the video is a legal copy and the publisher/author meets the requirement for reliable sources, then youtuve video is usually a reliable source otherwise it is not. However it is also worth to note that even in cases, where the reliability criteria is met, text sources are normally preferred to video sources (assuming both are available).--Kmhkmh (talk) 21:07, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

I could create an account and upload virtually anything on YouTube right now, and it would honestly have a decent chance of surviving even if was intentionally shocking/misleading or a copyright violation. In other words, YT is only a reliable source if the (verified) uploader in question is. Glades12 (talk) 11:46, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Citing an encyclical

What would be the correct and appropriate cite template for referencing a Catholic Church encyclical? For example, Fratelli tutti. The general structure is numbered paragraphs and numbered footnotes. They are eventually published as books, but most people don't access them that way. The primary thing I'd want is accurate citation of a paragraph number or footnote, because these things get long. Elizium23 (talk) 05:15, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Because WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT, you might use {{cite web}}:

{{cite web |url=http://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20201003_enciclica-fratelli-tutti.html#DARK_CLOUDS_OVER_A_CLOSED_WORLD |title=Encyclical ''Fratelli tutti''|author=Francis |website=The Holy See |at=¶11}}

Francis. "Encyclical Fratelli tutti". The Holy See. ¶11.

Alas, you can't link directly to the paragraph but you can link to the nearest heading.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:12, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

You can always generate a citation with a template, and append whatever you want:
<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20201003_enciclica-fratelli-tutti.html#DARK_CLOUDS_OVER_A_CLOSED_WORLD |title=Encyclical ''Fratelli tutti''|author=Francis |website=The Holy See |at=¶11}} Search for "transsubstantiation".</ref>
Also, remember that a citation isn't necessarily a template; you could, for example, use the template to generate the citation, copy it from the list of citations, edit the copy and enter it without template (Entered as
<ref>Francis. "[http://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20201003_enciclica-fratelli-tutti.html#DARK_CLOUDS_OVER_A_CLOSED_WORLD Encyclical Fratelli tutti]". ''The Holy See''. Typed in pointer to exact location here. ¶11.</ref>
Less convenient than a quick template. I expect other reasons not to do this will be appended.

Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 14:04, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thank you both, this is very helpful. Is "¶" the accepted emoji? The docs say to use abbreviated words such as "para." I assume that I can also cite a footnote with at=? Elizium23 (talk) 16:29, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Not an emoji; pilcrow, very often used to mark or reference a paragraph. Yes, |at=fn. 8 or:

|at=[http://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20201003_enciclica-fratelli-tutti.html#_ftn8 fn. 8]

The list of things that can be used in |at= is not a prescriptive list; it is just a list of common in-source locators.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:45, 18 October 2020 (UTC)