Wikipedia talk:Cleanup sorting

Some background and history of proposals can be found at Wikipedia:Cleanup sorting/History.

Leveraging WikiProjects

Is a great idea in general, but doing so successfully will mean structuring the process so as to make it easier for them, in particular in terms of how the sorting categories are constructed. For example, WP:PNA currently had "Military History", "Military history", "Military", and "War" categories, even though there's only a single active WikiProject dealing with all of these. Combining them into a single category may make the sorting scheme less "correct", but would make it much easier for the project to focus on the relevant articles. Kirill Lok s h in 13:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We can just transclude all the categories into the same WikiProject. Alba 15:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Somehow, I don't think that transcluding a bunch of massive and poorly organized lists into a project will get you quite the reaction you're looking for ;-) Kirill Lok s h in 16:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Current template for modifying PNA subpages

Am confused on how I can go about leveraging the power of this into our new WP:Firefly. Looks like I need to add a subpage called Wikipedia:Pages needing attention/Firefly but I wasn't sure if the template under the subhead "Current template for modifying PNA subpages" was the most recent? Thanks! plange 06:54, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Summary needed

I have some interest in helping with this, but the front page needs a summary to outline the current status, instructions and categories. Maurreen 17:51, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the project page is messy and almost stream-of-consciousness. I've added a summary section at the front. I'm sure it can be improved. (Really, the whole page needs splitting and rewriting. Does this even belong as a subpage of Cleanup process?) Please discuss questions, ideas. There are few people active in this area. -R. S. Shaw 04:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. The summary helps. I tried doing something like this by hand maybe nine months ago, but I didn't get very far. Maurreen 05:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Artists

I'm trying this at Artists subpage. If somebody could check my work, I'd appreciate it. Maurreen 05:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The body for the Artists section you've set up is basically fine, however there's a overall structural aspect to handle. I see that the page Wikipedia:Pages needing attention/Culture and Arts as it stands is one big thing with inline sections. This has to become (when fully converted) a series of transcluded (sub)subpages. This is because each topical area has to have its own page, since the bot will replace all content after the first "BOT INSERTS CONTENT HERE".

A straight across setup for this instance would have a page named Wikipedia:Pages needing attention/Artists with the wikitext you created, and in place of that text in Wikipedia:Pages needing attention/Culture and Arts there would be a transclusion of it, thus: {{Wikipedia:Pages needing attention/Artists}}.

I think it might be good if before going too far some thought were given to the structure desired. In particular, how should topical areas be grouped? If you look at the 3 other major areas already done on PNA, you can see there are often 2 nested levels present. For instance, Computing, Health Science, and Transport each have subpages of their own (Anatomy, Medicine, etc). Maybe Culture and Arts doesn't need any, at least for a first cut, but it's something to be aware of.

One note: you removed the "Do not add text below this point" message. It's OK if you make that message non-visible by making it a HTML comment, but it probably should not be removed completely. It's intended to be a message to anybody who happens to edit the PNA/Artists page in the future, say to add a cleanup listing for an article in the old, pre-robot, PNA manner. Below that point it will get thrown away by the bot.

About content: I think you should leave the Portal:Arts out of this topic (and all topics). This is because the portal has too broad a set of categories listed (including poetry, comics, typography, Reggae, ...). You have to check content of portals for problems like this.

Enough for now. -R. S. Shaw 08:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thank you, I'll work on digesting this. Maurreen 14:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Maurreen, glad you're on this! I was coming here too to figure out how to leverage this for Biography - was thinking it would be great to have one for each discipline (like you have with Artists), I'll work on doing politicians as another test. plange 03:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maurreen, I did it for you -- I moved it to a fresh page called Arts and Entertainment....plange 03:19, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. This seems a little complicated. Maurreen 04:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Now we just have to wait for the bot to run (whenever that is) plange 05:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Politicians

I see there's a Politicians page but am unsure if this was converted to the bot process? When was the last time it ran, if so. Also, is it okay if I modify what categories and stubs it's using? This is on behalf of WikiProject Biography...plange 03:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You can tell that it has been converted to new format and that the bot has been run by the bullet lines like "Cleanup needed (updated by bot)". To find when the bot was run, look at the page History for the latest edit by "Pearle" (which is the bot). (I've requested the bot be updated to put the date of the wikipedia image on the page, but that has not happened [yet]). Yes, thoughtful changes to cats and stub-cats would be good. Note the broader the set of cats, the longer and less selective the list will become. -R. S. Shaw 20:03, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, and is it okay to create subsets, i.e. American politicians, when/if the main politicians one gets too big? Also, I would love to be able to transclude just the bot list generated instead of the stuff at top too (that lists all the categories and stubs) - Is that possible? plange 20:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Page reorganizations are fine. New pages should always be at the first level under PNA, e.g. PNA/AmerPols; it's okay to transclude them in any hierarchy/nesting you want, despite the first level name, e.g. from within PNA/Politicians. PNA/Politicians doesn't seem too big, but PNA/People is probably way too big now (1300 cleanups), although maybe not much can be done about it.

I'd guess the transclude mechanism can only do whole pages, not sections, in which case you'd be out of luck since the bot requires the cat lists be on the same page as the resulting cleanup lists. (By the way, the new section named "List" you put in is a bit of an experiment. I'd guess the bot won't choke on it, but we won't know until a run is made.) -R. S. Shaw 21:48, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Military

I redid military so we could have a subset of military people -- I followed how the other ones did it, hope that's okay. How do I get the bot to come by the new page? plange 02:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Offhand, the changes look ok. To get a bot run, you'll need to contact user:Beland on his talk page. -R. S. Shaw 04:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Implemented

Oops, I mistook the lack of talk here for lack of interest, when it in fact seems to mean lack of opposition. If this is actively being used, are there any objections to renaming it (so it's no longer a proposal) and tagging it {{guideline}} or styleguide or somesuch? >Radiant< 17:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem it should be renamed/moved, although to just what isn't clear to me. I think most people come to this from the Wikipedia:Pages needing attention direction (which is where it is implemented), so maybe is should be a subpage of that. (Being a subpage might hide it among the content subpages of WP:PNA, but that doesn't seem like too big a drawback.) Very unclear to me what class it should be labelled as; maybe it would be a guideline, but not sure. -R. S. Shaw 01:49, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say move to Wikipedia:Cleanup sorting and tag as {{guideline}} and put it in the maintenance cat. >Radiant< 21:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for doing that, Radiant. The body needs considerable revision, which I'll work on but it will take some time. Some of the older stuff I'll put off onto a /History subpage. -R. S. Shaw 23:38, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]